Rabbit bashing Facebook page

[tailwagging]

ok where does one get a list of who not show under?

 

[TMTex]

I'm just glad I haven't seen the group or any pages on there. It would probably raise my temper a bit. Ignorance is bliss in my case and I'm a happy guy.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

ok where does one get a list of who not show under?

I'd like to know, too...and I'm not above sending a note to shows I would have attended and DIDN'T to explain exactly WHY. :evil: If enough people refuse to show under these dishonorable, cruel judges then they'll simply stop getting hired to judge, simple as that. :twisted:

My dad always says, "vote with your dollar." In other words, if you don't approve of or support something, explain to them why you won't give them money.

 

[trinityoaks]

Makes me glad that neither I nor my kids ever got interested in showing.

 

[Millinex]

Thanks, Frecs. -hugs-

I was physically, verbally, and emotionally abused as a kid. I have PTSD and dissociative identity disorder. Animals are such a big part of my life because they have instincts they follow; they are not needlessly cruel like people can be. I still have SEVERE issues dealing with people off the Internet just because I'm always expecting to be harmed one way or another.

Millinex, you said, "People get bullied and cry it's the reason why they are suicidal"? What suitable reasons are there for being suicidal, if I might ask? Because I have been. Not because of kid-on-kid bullying (thought it didn't help), but because I was a kid and hurt in ways no kid deserves to be BY ADULTS. How are you meant to fight back when you're six and the people who are harming you are many times your size? You just can't. I'm sorry you were bullied and I'm glad you've moved past it, but abuse hurts people. Obviously. Some more than others.

Nobody deserves to be abused. I will never sit by and watch as someone is hurt by another's hands. I know they're just on Facebook being butts, but why shouldn't they be called out for that? I mean, really? What's the harm in saying someone isn't being a decent human being? Nothing. You're helping THEM grow as people by teaching them that lesson they should have learned already, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"! Be kind about it if you can, though. Also? It's not our fault for being upset that there's a group of people being catty school children when they're adults and should be acting with dignity.

Makes me think of the whole Andrew Ti thing. People call him all sorts of names for saying people really shouldn't be sexist, racist, etc. in 2013. Because apparently it's not okay to say that people shouldn't say the n-word. Of course, it's not as HUGE as that, but I think it has a lot to say about society. "Don't speak out against harm, because if yous speak out against it, you are worse because you're ruining everyone's fun."

I'll reply to your comment, but it's directed at everyone in general. I'm not saying that you don't have a valid reason to have your issues, lord knows I have mine. Truth is though, facebook is not serious, people want to talk smack about each other, let em. You need to remember, smack talk is USUALLY out of jealousy of some sort.

So why let it bother you? I've had a LOT of words said to me on the internet, do I lose a single minute of sleep at night over it? Not at all, because it's the INTERNET. Sometimes people need to just get some thicker skin and move on. Problem is, these days if you say anything that might offend someone you get sued, you get expelled, etc etc etc. Fact is- let it go. Say what you want about me, at the end of the day, I got a lot more things to worry about of much more importance than someone's opinion of me or what name they called me... I wish more people would just learn to focus on things that actually matter in life...

Now- as for your depression thing. You where hurt by adults, I'm sorry for that. I know many people close to me in the same boat. Now I don't even put adult/kid bullying in the same category. Obviously the adults should be held to a much higher standard... I've been there. I went through 3 suicide attempts, substance abuse, a gaming addiction that destroyed multiple years of my life because it was easy to hide from the real world there. What saved me? A pet lizard coming to me one day while I sat on my floor and nudging my hand. That alone saved my life, that moment of having something I had to care about/provide for outside of my self...

Sure this page probably exists, even if it doesn't, people will STILL always talk smack about each other to their friends and such. It's going to happen, even if it isn't public, it's still there. Let it roll off your shoulders, don't sweat it, it's jealousy and it's stuff that doesn't matter.

As for judges being involved, I think that should be held to a higher standard, and shouldn't be in a judge position.. but other breeders? Life will go on

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Thanks, Frecs. -hugs-

I was physically, verbally, and emotionally abused as a kid. I have PTSD and dissociative identity disorder. Animals are such a big part of my life because they have instincts they follow; they are not needlessly cruel like people can be. I still have SEVERE issues dealing with people off the Internet just because I'm always expecting to be harmed one way or another.

Millinex, you said, "People get bullied and cry it's the reason why they are suicidal"? What suitable reasons are there for being suicidal, if I might ask? Because I have been. Not because of kid-on-kid bullying (thought it didn't help), but because I was a kid and hurt in ways no kid deserves to be BY ADULTS. How are you meant to fight back when you're six and the people who are harming you are many times your size? You just can't. I'm sorry you were bullied and I'm glad you've moved past it, but abuse hurts people. Obviously. Some more than others.

Nobody deserves to be abused. I will never sit by and watch as someone is hurt by another's hands. I know they're just on Facebook being butts, but why shouldn't they be called out for that? I mean, really? What's the harm in saying someone isn't being a decent human being? Nothing. You're helping THEM grow as people by teaching them that lesson they should have learned already, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"! Be kind about it if you can, though. Also? It's not our fault for being upset that there's a group of people being catty school children when they're adults and should be acting with dignity.

Makes me think of the whole Andrew Ti thing. People call him all sorts of names for saying people really shouldn't be sexist, racist, etc. in 2013. Because apparently it's not okay to say that people shouldn't say the n-word. Of course, it's not as HUGE as that, but I think it has a lot to say about society. "Don't speak out against harm, because if yous speak out against it, you are worse because you're ruining everyone's fun."

I'll reply to your comment, but it's directed at everyone in general. I'm not saying that you don't have a valid reason to have your issues, lord knows I have mine. Truth is though, facebook is not serious, people want to talk smack about each other, let em. You need to remember, smack talk is USUALLY out of jealousy of some sort.

So why let it bother you? I've had a LOT of words said to me on the internet, do I lose a single minute of sleep at night over it? Not at all, because it's the INTERNET. Sometimes people need to just get some thicker skin and move on. Problem is, these days if you say anything that might offend someone you get sued, you get expelled, etc etc etc. Fact is- let it go. Say what you want about me, at the end of the day, I got a lot more things to worry about of much more importance than someone's opinion of me or what name they called me... I wish more people would just learn to focus on things that actually matter in life...

Now- as for your depression thing. You where hurt by adults, I'm sorry for that. I know many people close to me in the same boat. Now I don't even put adult/kid bullying in the same category. Obviously the adults should be held to a much higher standard... I've been there. I went through 3 suicide attempts, substance abuse, a gaming addiction that destroyed multiple years of my life because it was easy to hide from the real world there. What saved me? A pet lizard coming to me one day while I sat on my floor and nudging my hand. That alone saved my life, that moment of having something I had to care about/provide for outside of my self...

Sure this page probably exists, even if it doesn't, people will STILL always talk smack about each other to their friends and such. It's going to happen, even if it isn't public, it's still there. Let it roll off your shoulders, don't sweat it, it's jealousy and it's stuff that doesn't matter.

As for judges being involved, I think that should be held to a higher standard, and shouldn't be in a judge position.. but other breeders? Life will go on

Oh I'm not worried at ALL about other breeders. :lol: I got warned by a lot of people about getting into Mini Rex...and I have already decided I don't give a rip about what others say or think of me. I'm too shy and skittish to make friends at shows for the most part anyways, so who cares if some high-and-mighty breeder gets their panties in a knot over me or my rabbits? :lol:

My issue, a SERIOUS issue, is these judges/registrars that have purportedly been doing these things. :evil: That...THAT chafes me. :furious: A judge or registrar (ESPECIALLY A JUDGE!!!!!!) must be held to a higher standard. They are automatically respected by virtue of their position, and while the bias or opinion of a breeder doesn't mean two hoots to me, a judge who becomes unfairly biased is another matter altogether. :evil: Plus it is simply dishonorable, and dishonorable actions deeply offend me. :angry:

I can't stop them from this cruel, petty, childish behavior...but I also shouldn't have to financially support shows they are hired by. I do NOT have to tolerate or enable their behavior. :twisted:

So yes, I think there should be a "no-show" list published, preferably with some screenshots of the judge-in-question engaging in dishonorable behavior as proof of their lack of decency. It will also take some dedication and transparency on the part of exhibitors...if we just don't show up and participate, it could be chalked up to lack of interest or bemoaned as a lessening of the hobby. We need to TELL THEM exactly why we aren't showing at that show. EVERY TIME. If every time they hire a dishonorable judge, they get a stack of letters telling them "I would have come to this show but you hired (name here) and I will not show under a dishonorable, biased, unfair judge" they will start to think twice about hiring that judge again. :twisted:

We have a collective voice. We should not be afraid to use it for the purposes of maintaining dignity and honor in the fancy.

 

[Frecs]

:yeahthat:

 

[phillinley]

After reading through that open facebook group against bullying, I have found quite a few people on there who I would never associate with or sell a rabbit to. And none of them would be those that were in the "secret" group. They took beating a dead horse to the level of beating a dead herd of horses. Going to a show next week with a couple of those judges at it. Can't wait to go.

 

[SatinsRule]

Oh I'm not worried at ALL about other breeders. :lol: I got warned by a lot of people about getting into Mini Rex...and I have already decided I don't give a rip about what others say or think of me. I'm too shy and skittish to make friends at shows for the most part anyways, so who cares if some high-and-mighty breeder gets their panties in a knot over me or my rabbits? :lol:

My issue, a SERIOUS issue, is these judges/registrars that have purportedly been doing these things. :evil: That...THAT chafes me. :furious: A judge or registrar (ESPECIALLY A JUDGE!!!!!!) must be held to a higher standard. They are automatically respected by virtue of their position, and while the bias or opinion of a breeder doesn't mean two hoots to me, a judge who becomes unfairly biased is another matter altogether. :evil: Plus it is simply dishonorable, and dishonorable actions deeply offend me. :angry:

I can't stop them from this cruel, petty, childish behavior...but I also shouldn't have to financially support shows they are hired by. I do NOT have to tolerate or enable their behavior. :twisted:

So yes, I think there should be a "no-show" list published, preferably with some screenshots of the judge-in-question engaging in dishonorable behavior as proof of their lack of decency. It will also take some dedication and transparency on the part of exhibitors...if we just don't show up and participate, it could be chalked up to lack of interest or bemoaned as a lessening of the hobby. We need to TELL THEM exactly why we aren't showing at that show. EVERY TIME. If every time they hire a dishonorable judge, they get a stack of letters telling them "I would have come to this show but you hired (name here) and I will not show under a dishonorable, biased, unfair judge" they will start to think twice about hiring that judge again. :twisted:

We have a collective voice. We should not be afraid to use it for the purposes of maintaining dignity and honor in the fancy.

A growing number of exhibitors already have a no-show list of judges they simply won't show under, or at least avoid if it's at all possible. Since most clubs have the option of last-minute hires and substitutions, it's never 100% for sure that a show you do attend is going to have the exact same judges they listed on their show catalog, and you won't find it out until you've already driven the distance and forked out the travel expenses to get there. The last thing you want to do once you arrive at said show is make a scene. It just never turns out well.

Most of the breed assignments are determined by the secretary and superintendent to ensure as smooth and timely of a flow as possible. If that means that Shlomo Glickstein or whatever other nameless judge I don't like winds up judging satins, I can either scratch my rabbits from that judging or show under him/her. That is completely a judgment call at that point in time.

__________ Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:39 am __________

After reading through that open facebook group against bullying, I have found quite a few people on there who I would never associate with or sell a rabbit to. And none of them would be those that were in the "secret" group. They took beating a dead horse to the level of beating a dead herd of horses. Going to a show next week with a couple of those judges at it. Can't wait to go.

Headed to Waterloo?

 

[Secuono]

Did anyone post what the group is called?

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

After reading through that open facebook group against bullying, I have found quite a few people on there who I would never associate with or sell a rabbit to. And none of them would be those that were in the "secret" group. They took beating a dead horse to the level of beating a dead herd of horses. Going to a show next week with a couple of those judges at it. Can't wait to go.

Yeah...when I saw the creator of the folk "against bullying" and recognized her as a FB bully, I opted not to join.

Doesn't mean I'm not still interested in avoiding dishonorable judges though.

A growing number of exhibitors already have a no-show list of judges they simply won't show under, or at least avoid if it's at all possible. Since most clubs have the option of last-minute hires and substitutions, it's never 100% for sure that a show you do attend is going to have the exact same judges they listed on their show catalog, and you won't find it out until you've already driven the distance and forked out the travel expenses to get there. The last thing you want to do once you arrive at said show is make a scene. It just never turns out well.

That is true, I would NOT want to cause a scene...it might really upset or ruin the day for other, well-meaning exhibitors. I would, however, write a letter to the show about it after the fact...being polite and succinct, express my dismay.

Most of the breed assignments are determined by the secretary and superintendent to ensure as smooth and timely of a flow as possible. If that means that Shlomo Glickstein or whatever other nameless judge I don't like winds up judging satins, I can either scratch my rabbits from that judging or show under him/her. That is completely a judgment call at that point in time.

If I've paid the entry fee, I'll show 'em no matter what. :lol: Had one judge barely look at a rabbit and call him "crap"...dumped him from the class...and this was the same rabbit who took BOSV of the previous show earlier that day. He was CLEARLY looking at ear tattoos and figuring out which of his friends to "place"...and I still put the rest of my rabbits up on the table even after he called Jack "crap." I paid the entry fee, darnit, so on with the show!!!!

He dumped all my rabbits. That's fine, none of the others deserved it anyways. No skin off my nose. As someone wise once told me, a show placement or lack thereof is just a three dollar opinion.

 

[SatinsRule]

Most of the breed assignments are determined by the secretary and superintendent to ensure as smooth and timely of a flow as possible. If that means that Shlomo Glickstein or whatever other nameless judge I don't like winds up judging satins, I can either scratch my rabbits from that judging or show under him/her. That is completely a judgment call at that point in time.

If I've paid the entry fee, I'll show 'em no matter what. :lol: Had one judge barely look at a rabbit and call him "crap"...dumped him from the class...and this was the same rabbit who took BOSV of the previous show earlier that day. He was CLEARLY looking at ear tattoos and figuring out which of his friends to "place"...and I still put the rest of my rabbits up on the table even after he called Jack "crap." I paid the entry fee, darnit, so on with the show!!!!

He dumped all my rabbits. That's fine, none of the others deserved it anyways. No skin off my nose. As someone wise once told me, a show placement or lack thereof is just a three dollar opinion.

I think we've all been victimized by biased judging at one time or another, but probably the worst form I've personally experienced was earlier this year at a local show in KS. Bumping ear numbers, improperly posing certain rabbits, judging a breed that's not only known but NAMED for its fur and telling breeders that he has a real problem because two rabbits "are dead even and one has better fur" then stating that he had "no problem going with the other rabbit" without qualifying the remark in any way. All the above went against yours truly, and I left that showroom as disgusted as I've ever been. Word spreads like wildfire, though. I tend to talk to a few other friends who are influential and I know for a fact that the same judge in question lost a higher-profile judging gig later on this year over that stunt.

 

[phillinley]

Yeah...when I saw the creator of the folk "against bullying" and recognized her as a FB bully, I opted not to join.

Doesn't mean I'm not still interested in avoiding dishonorable judges though.

The browbeating some of those people who were only on the private group for a couple days or even under 24 hours received was ridiculous. Get a mirror.

I don't much care what people say behind closed doors(and someone taking screenshots of a private group is akin to someone skulking behind the door of an IRL private conversation, so yes that was a closed door). If they are professional and educational at the table, that's all I'm worried about. I would put more stock into a judge who might not like me and places the rabbits within reason on the table than an unskilled judge who doesn't even know the breed standard he's judging.

Headed to Waterloo?

Nope, we'll be in Marshalltown at the Iowa RBA. That's our club show. One of the judges in particular on that list has been very nice and helpful to our youngest daughter whenever she would bring her mini-rex to the table.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I think we've all been victimized by biased judging at one time or another, but probably the worst form I've personally experienced was earlier this year at a local show in KS. Bumping ear numbers, improperly posing certain rabbits, judging a breed that's not only known but NAMED for its fur and telling breeders that he has a real problem because two rabbits "are dead even and one has better fur" then stating that he had "no problem going with the other rabbit" without qualifying the remark in any way. All the above went against yours truly, and I left that showroom as disgusted as I've ever been. Word spreads like wildfire, though. I tend to talk to a few other friends who are influential and I know for a fact that the same judge in question lost a higher-profile judging gig later on this year over that stunt.

Sounds like very well deserves to lose a few judging gigs!!!!!! :evil:

 

[SatinsRule]

I think we've all been victimized by biased judging at one time or another, but probably the worst form I've personally experienced was earlier this year at a local show in KS. Bumping ear numbers, improperly posing certain rabbits, judging a breed that's not only known but NAMED for its fur and telling breeders that he has a real problem because two rabbits "are dead even and one has better fur" then stating that he had "no problem going with the other rabbit" without qualifying the remark in any way. All the above went against yours truly, and I left that showroom as disgusted as I've ever been. Word spreads like wildfire, though. I tend to talk to a few other friends who are influential and I know for a fact that the same judge in question lost a higher-profile judging gig later on this year over that stunt.

Sounds like very well deserves to lose a few judging gigs!!!!!! :evil:

Pretty much describes my viewpoint on it, too. Sure, he may have been hooking up the guy(s) that hired him to judge, but it wound up being one step forward and at least one step back. As it stands now, I won't plan to attend another show where he's scheduled to judge. If he's just a last-minute add-on, the video phone will be rolling, and I'm not above sharing it.<br /><br />__________ Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:49 pm __________<br /><br />

Nope, we'll be in Marshalltown at the Iowa RBA. That's our club show. One of the judges in particular on that list has been very nice and helpful to our youngest daughter whenever she would bring her mini-rex to the table.

Which one?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

After reading through that open facebook group against bullying, I have found quite a few people on there who I would never associate with or sell a rabbit to. And none of them would be those that were in the "secret" group. They took beating a dead horse to the level of beating a dead herd of horses. Going to a show next week with a couple of those judges at it. Can't wait to go.

Yeah...when I saw the creator of the folk "against bullying" and recognized her as a FB bully, I opted not to join.

Doesn't mean I'm not still interested in avoiding dishonorable judges though.

There is more than one group, one started by the person you mention and one started by Clyde Green. Clyde's group is more focused on "where to go from here?" rather than rehashing the issue.

 

[Demamma]

I joined one group and quit less than 24 hours later. Not much there and just alot of angry people who are not moving forward.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I joined one group and quit less than 24 hours later. Not much there and just alot of angry people who are not moving forward.

Yes, that is the one they were talking about...The other one is Rabbit Breeders United Against Bullying....I think.

 

[phillinley]

There is more than one group, one started by the person you mention and one started by Clyde Green. Clyde's group is more focused on "where to go from here?" rather than rehashing the issue.

I respect the heck out of those two. Although I don't always agree with Clyde and Sandi, they are the type of people you can have a constructive conversation with and they have a strong love for their breeds. I don't agree with them on this issue when it comes to creating a code of conduct rule outside of the showroom. These are not teachers, or judges or lawyers, these are people who get paid about a buck a rabbit to show up and give an opinion about it. It's a privilege not a right like anything else, but it's a hobby not a profession.

 

[Frecs]

It's a privilege not a right like anything else, but it's a hobby not a profession.

A PRIVILEGE...exactly. And, they should uphold the standard of conduct expected of them by the people giving them that PRIVILEGE. If they don't want to, fine, they can stop collecting that $1 per rabbit and stop being a judge. Simple really.