Questionable Spots on Liver

[MamaSheepdog]

I'm not sure what this is... could it be the dreaded "P"? The yellowish area feels thickened. The rest of the liver appears normal. The pics below show both sides of one lobe of the liver:

 

[jollysrabbits]

I don't think so MSD, how old is the bun?

 

[Dood]

Perhaps coccidia?

The liver form of the disease is much more concerning. Eimeria steidae, the causative protozoa, damages the bile duct and causes large white spots (pus pockets) in the liver, acute enteritis (rabbit diarrhea), loss of condition, and death.

http://www.raising-rabbits.com/images/C ... tLiver.jpg

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Jollys, he was about 5 months old.

Dood, it does look like coccidia, but a very mild case compared to the liver in the link. If it is cocci, that's a first here!

 

[MaggieJ]

I'm trying to remember... but without much success. Seems to me that Ladysown once posted about some kind of worm (tapeworm?) causing liver damage. Maybe PM her if she doesn't see this thread and respond... She has a lot of experience!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

If it is coccidia, the meat is safe, correct?

 

[MaggieJ]

The meat is safe but I suggest you discard the organ meat where your dogs and cats can't get it. Even if it is tapeworm larvae (or whatever) the meat is safe if properly cooked.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thank you MaggieJ.

 

[jollysrabbits]

if its only five months it kind of concerns me, seems like a good size spot for so young. Def not the P word. But could be cocci. Any more siblings to butcher out?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Any more siblings to butcher out?

No. This rabbit was in a growout cage with 4 others, and all were dispatched today. None of the other rabbits had any irregular spots on their livers.

 

[ladysown]

that's coccidia. Toss the liver a place where your pets won't get it, (here I used to freeze and toss in the garbage) the rest of the rabbit is fine. Coccidia is supposed to be species specific BUT I don't trust that knowledge since cats can catch things from rabbits (like pasturella). Treat the dam of the affected kit for sure, might be easiest and generally safest to treat the whole works though. You do want to treat as coccidia starts slow but can build up quickly into a problem.

I've seen worse in younger kits. Pet store returns are the worst, makes a body wonder where some of those kits come from for them to be so bad.

Some folks medicate via the water bottle. I found my rabbits wouldn't drink it though so I just hand medicated the whole works. Do it just after a cull and at least a month before you expect to cull. Full treatment lasts two weeks.

 

[grumpy]

MSD:

It's coccidiosis....Amprolum will take care of it. Treat the herd. Do your best to keep chickens away from your pens.

If you've got a ground colony, it'll pop up again. Cocci lives in the soil and is nearly impossible to eradicate.

All rabbits carry the organism....It's only when stress reduces the vitality of the individual's immune system that the numbers can grow and become a problem.

No big deal...really. Treat for the problem and don't worry about it.

grumpy

 

[ladysown]

for additional information

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_disease ... occ_en.htm

http://www.netvet.co.uk/rabbits/coccidiosis.htm

also
There are only two types of medicine that stop coccidiosis. Those two are sulfa quinoxoline and amprolium. I recommend against sulfa quinoxoline because extended or over use of it can cause organ damage to your rabbit if not careful. Amprolium is the better drug to use. However there are two types of Amprolium: powdered form (Corrid) and liquid form. Don't use the powdered form. That is meant for cattle. The particulates are too big and they don't get absorbed by the rabbits digestive system so basically the medicine does no good. The liquid form of the drug has particulates small enough for the rabbit to absorb. You just add the liquid to their drinking water. Make sure to follow the medicine instructions to a T.


Anyways, hope you found that all helpful. If not.. well I tried.

 

[jollysrabbits]

ladysown, awesome info, I didn't know half of that. Thanks!

 

[skysthelimit]

for additional information

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_disease ... occ_en.htm

http://www.netvet.co.uk/rabbits/coccidiosis.htm

also
There are only two types of medicine that stop coccidiosis. Those two are sulfa quinoxoline and amprolium. I recommend against sulfa quinoxoline because extended or over use of it can cause organ damage to your rabbit if not careful. Amprolium is the better drug to use. However there are two types of Amprolium: powdered form (Corrid) and liquid form. Don't use the powdered form. That is meant for cattle. The particulates are too big and they don't get absorbed by the rabbits digestive system so basically the medicine does no good. The liquid form of the drug has particulates small enough for the rabbit to absorb. You just add the liquid to their drinking water. Make sure to follow the medicine instructions to a T.


Anyways, hope you found that all helpful. If not.. well I tried.

Good to know.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Well, it's a good thing it got too late to move other rabbits into that growout pen! Another silver lining is the fact that my automatic watering system has still not been fixed since it shattered during a freeze.

So... does TSC carry liquid Amprolium? What dosage should I use in the water, since the label I found online gives a dosage per pound? When is the meat safe to harvest? I'm thinking I should treat my breeding stock and continue butchering growouts without treating them since they are in a totally separate area. :hmm:

This is what the label (copied online) states:

Five day treatment protocol: Daily Dosage: 10 mg Amprolium/kg (10 mg per 2.2 lb body weight). Twenty-one day prevention protocol: Daily Dosage: 5 mg Amprolium/kg (5 mg per 2.2 lb body weight). There are 96 mg of Amprolium in every 1 ml of Corid 9.6% Solution. 1 fl. oz. = 29.57 ml; 1 fl. oz = 2 tablespoons.

The medi-rabbit link states:

The anti-coccidiosis treatment is successful only for rabbits infected since 5 to 6 days. Even if the treatment is successful, mortality and diarrhea will continue during the next few days. Relapse is regularly observed after 1 or 2 weeks.

The bold is my emphasis- are they saying that the only animals that can be cured must be treated w/in 5-6 days of ingesting the oocytes?

Then there is this:

Branches and leaves rich in tannin (willow, hazelnut, oak, ash, fruit trees, eventually pines) are excellent in preventing coccidiosis.

Eventually pines? Huh?

Do your best to keep chickens away from your pens.

If you've got a ground colony, it'll pop up again. Cocci lives in the soil and is nearly impossible to eradicate.

The chickens are in their own area, and I raise in cages.

All rabbits carry the organism....It's only when stress reduces the vitality of the individual's immune system that the numbers can grow and become a problem.

Well, this was a pen of boys, at the age when "arguments start", so maybe this rabbit was the low one on the totem pole. :?

I've processed around twenty rabbits this month, and this is the first sign of cocci... does that seem a little strange to anyone else?

I'm actually looking forward to processing more wabbits this week to see if I find more infected livers! How twisted is that? :lol:

 

[ladysown]

and this is the first sign of cocci... does that seem a little strange to anyone else?

NOPE

When coccidiosis was brought into my herd (yes by a seemingly healthy young adult) I would process bunnies and find one of every five would have it, when it was at it's peak it was reversed. Some buns simply wouldn't have it. Guess which ones I wished I hadn't processed? But you can't tell just by looking.

Rabbits can look and act healthy without there being any outward signs. All I saw in youngsters (under 10 weeks) were fat tummies and icky poops.

I waited until summer when I had no litters. And then treated for two weeks. Waited a month and then treated again. That kicked it out for two years and then .. yet again....brought in another rabbit....Found out from the breeder they were having issues with coccidia so treated everyone that rabbit had contact with. But obviously missed someone as I had ONE rabbit of 10 done show up with it....so I treated the whole works and "knock on wood" I haven't seen it since then.

As to where you find it? I dunno.. you are stateside.

I know up here what I can find is sulfa drugs so I use that. PLUS the medicated feed we have up at my local mill contains it so once a year I run it through my herd for two weeks, I do this in August just before my breeding season starts, when I have no littles, I've done my pre-fall get rid of adults i don't want to over winter cull-out. That protocol is keeping my herd clear.

You may wish to adopt a different protocol.

in regards to the five day treatment thing....
EVERYONE that I have talked to about treating for coccidia says to do it for a full two weeks. Five days on, two off, two on, two off, three on.. in such a way that you finish the two weeks with meds given. If you do that, you rarely have to retreat your herd.

 

[Bunnie]

When we dispatched 7 bunnies for meat we had one with what we were told were liver flukes, looked kind of like this but different, I took a picture.

Could this be the start of a "fluke"

 

[fuzzy9]

GREAT info in this thread! Very good read!

 

[mwtrees]

Coccidia can show up as your liver showed above, but I've seen much younger rabbits with it so bad that it looked like salt and "red" pepper. That case is very mild.

also to clean the cages.. AMMONIA! It is the only thing that will clean the cage of eggs.