Question: Emailed Pedigrees?

[Pickles]

Have a quick question and was wondering what people thought about this...
I will be getting 2 Sable Points (buck & doe) after the ARBA National Convention, instead of transfering paperwork at the convention, the breeder was just going to email me their pedigrees.
Has anyone else recieved an emailed pedigree before and is it a big deal atall to not have the original papered pedigree?

 

[Fid]

You can't put your John Hancock in ink on an emailed pedigree.

 

[fuzzy9]

A breeder just tried to email me 3 pedigrees, and on top of the fact that she completely screwed up what she sent me, I just could not make heads nor tails of the pedigree itself. It printed out on 3 sheets of paper, and I couldn't find the information about the particular rabbit we owned. I had to go back to her, and have them redone, on a single sheet. I'm sure all software programs are different, but it was sure a pain!

 

[ottersatin]

What program was it?
You can easily email Pedigree's with Rabbit Register. [Evans Software]
I personally like to get the Pedigre when I purchase the rabbit,
No Pedigree, no purchase.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Pickles]

OtterSatin... The breeder was going to send me the pedigrees early (before I got the rabbits). We have had wonderful communication between us so I do trust that his intentions are good.
Fuzzy9... what a hassle you had printing out that pedigree!
Fid... I was actually thinking about the same thing... no original breeder's signature.

Hmnnn, Im thinking now it just may be best if he "snail-mailed" me the rabbit's paperwork instead or just give them to me (or my transporter if I dont go to Indy) at the show.

 

[KatzNetherlands]

I have only had one e-mailed to me... and it really didn't matter to me, because I transferred it to my own program right away. It was sent to me via Evans software as well...

 

[akane]

I've had pedigrees emailed to me several times. I've never received a paper pedigree with a signature anyway and I never sign the ones I print out. Kintraks let's you export the pedigree in to many forms including html which can be viewed and printed from any browser window. Most pedigrees I received were xml which can be opened in word or equivalent programs. I'm not sure kintraks can import the info from a pedigree made in another program even if it saves as xml. Whether I get paper or email pedigrees I just end up putting them in my own software and then if necessary printing out my own pedigrees.

 

[Thundrr]

we bought the a few of our pedigreed holland lops from one particular breeder in our area... he gave us the hand written pedigrees on ARBA forms when we bought the rabbits from him... the biggest issue is... his handwriting is horrible.. i recently joined in on the Global Pedigree Project and after trying to enter in the pedigrees into the program i wanna strangle that breeder for not making things legible... i have also had breeders completely screw up emailed pedigrees... so i dont know which is better... but im loving the Global Pedigree Project... i now have rabbits with 6 generation pedigrees and i can read em lol

 

[HendricksHearth]

When I purchased from convention, I believe the breeders just snail-mailed me the pedigrees in advance as they were paid for in full way before. I don't think I'd mind an e-mailed pedigree though as long as it was complete. One thing you might want to check is whether the breeder is entering them in the show or if you need to. In my case I had to enter my own and arrange for care while they were in the coops before they were transported home, but some other breeders wanted them shown under their name before they were released for transport to the new owner.

Hope this helps,

Lauren

 

[SatinsRule]

The problem with an emailed pedigree, as stated before, is that it's not possible for the pedigree to be signed, which if you're planning to ever register the rabbit, will likely be necessary.

I personally prefer the pedigree to be signed in original ink. It's the one catch-all which prevents an unscrupulous breeder from faking a pedigree then trying to hang it on you later on.

 

[Cattle Cait]

I had Pepper's pedigree emailed to me, but her breeder was 1200 miles away. It could have been mailed, but I didn't mind. I just put it into my own pedigree program and all was fine.

 

[Pickles]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone... its much appreciated! Im still leaning toward having their peds "snail-mailed". Eventhough after reading some posts, I dont think that emailing them would create too much issue, I just think I would prefer the paper original.

 

[eco2pia]

The problem with an emailed pedigree, as stated before, is that it's not possible for the pedigree to be signed, which if you're planning to ever register the rabbit, will likely be necessary.

I have emailed pedigrees which I scanned with my signature on it--is that acceptable for future registration, does anyone know? In my case it was un-necessary, because the pedigree was sent as reference only, for a buck I had studded out, but just curious, since e-mailing is something I love to do.

 

[akane]

I never saw anywhere that a signed pedigree is a requirement for registration. Just that it was a so many generation color pedigree with weights. The weights part disqualifies far more people than signing would since many don't weigh their rabbits. I don't think any of my pedigrees have enough generations with weights to register. This is all ARBA says:

The pedigree must show the name and/or ear number, weight, and variety of the parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (3 generations) of the animal being registered. (All ancestors in the 3 generations MUST be of the same breed as the animal being registered.) A licensed Registrar for the species must examine the animal and fill out an application for registration

 

[ladysown]

i email them all the time. not an issue.

registrations are supposed to be signed over though.

 

[moonkitten]

In fact, sending a paper pedigree in with the ARBA registration is a NEW thing. Up till just a couple of years ago, all pedigree information had to be hand copied onto the registration form by the registrar. Bad handwriting being such a common problem, ARBA finally started to accept a paper pedigree attached to the form. Since the registrar is the one filling out the form, there would have been no way to transfer a signature from someone's pedigree to the form -- no signature necessary!

 

[SatinsRule]

I never saw anywhere that a signed pedigree is a requirement for registration. Just that it was a so many generation color pedigree with weights. The weights part disqualifies far more people than signing would since many don't weigh their rabbits. I don't think any of my pedigrees have enough generations with weights to register. This is all ARBA says:

The pedigree must show the name and/or ear number, weight, and variety of the parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (3 generations) of the animal being registered. (All ancestors in the 3 generations MUST be of the same breed as the animal being registered.) A licensed Registrar for the species must examine the animal and fill out an application for registration

Likely a poor, albeit hasty choice of wording on my part, but if I were a registrar and a breeder gave me a pedigree on a rabbit which had been purchased from another breeder which didn't have a signature or at the very least some kind of breeder stamp or address label, I know it would at least throw up a warning sign that something wasn't quite right. Would I refuse to register the rabbit? Probably not, as the lack of the signature or stamp could easily be an oversight, but it would catch my attention. I mean seriously, if a breeder is going to all the trouble of filling out a pedigree, why wouldn't he or she sign it?

__________ Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:36 pm __________

Since the registrar is the one filling out the form, there would have been no way to transfer a signature from someone's pedigree to the form -- no signature necessary!

I still have the duplicates for application for registration for each of 3 rabbits I had registered earlier this year, and you know what? All 3 have my signature and date at the bottom of the form. The registrar is required to have you sign the application for each rabbit you're trying to register. Granted, they are mainly concerned with the breeder who is having the rabbit registered, but nevertheless, the form is required to be signed by both the registrar and the breeder on the day the application is filled out, along with a phone number and email address. Above the sig block is an acknowledgement by the breeder that "the information they're submitting on the application is true to the best of his/her knowledge..."

 

[eco2pia]

I still have the duplicates for application for registration for each of 3 rabbits I had registered earlier this year, and you know what? All 3 have my signature and date at the bottom of the form. The registrar is required to have you sign the application for each rabbit you're trying to register. Granted, they are mainly concerned with the breeder who is having the rabbit registered, but nevertheless, the form is required to be signed by both the registrar and the breeder on the day the application is filled out, along with a phone number and email address. Above the sig block is an acknowledgement by the breeder that "the information they're submitting on the application is true to the best of his/her knowledge..."

So if I sold a kit and someone later wanted to register it, wouldn't it be the OWNER'S signature that was required? The person filling out the registration application?

 

[akane]

I understand signatures for registration. It's standard in any animal registry that the person registering the animal signs the registration certificate plus the registrar and then signs when the animal is transferred to another owner. Very few people sign pedigrees though and no one verifies a signature. If I wanted to I could sign anyone's name or just something too scribbly to read and in 90% of cases no one would know. A signature means nothing on a pedigree and I've seen no one use it so far. I've gotten rabbits from 5 people with pedigrees and not a single one is signed. Sometimes they don't even print out individual pedigrees for related rabbits. I bought my first champagne doe and her younger full sister and all they did was put her birthdate on the back of her older sister's pedigree. I got a buck and his granddaughter from a doe offspring and they just gave me his pedigree, the sire of the doe's pedigree, and wrote in the name of her dam that came from the buck. 2 others were emailed to me after I picked up the rabbits. I have 2 that were written by hand and 2 that were printed with rabbitry logo and not a single one has a signature even if there is a signature line. These are big rabbitries that have been there for 10-20years and show across the midwest. I have yet to see a signed pedigree.

 

[SatinsRule]

So if I sold a kit and someone later wanted to register it, wouldn't it be the OWNER'S signature that was required? The person filling out the registration application?

Yes, absolutely, as was the case with each of the 3 registered rabbits I previously discussed, but for anyone to state that there are no signatures necessary, which I seem to recall was what was stated, is not correct.<br /><br />__________ Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:25 am __________<br /><br />

I have yet to see a signed pedigree.

That's strange, as the breeder I bought my reds and blacks from has signed every pedigree he's forwarded to me. Same with the Cals I've bought.

In the case of my whites, there is a stamp with the breeder's personal info applied to each one, and they were all given to me the day I picked the rabbits up from his house.

While it's true that anyone can falsify a pedigree, I view it that if the breeder I am looking at buying from is unwilling to at least certify it in such a way that is consistent with someone putting his or her reputation on the line, I am very reluctant to buy any stock from them. I have known too many breeders over the years who did, only to find out later on that the breeder they bought from screwed them the same as they had so many other buyers over the years. The real key is to get to know the breeders, or at least enough about them, before you buy anything from them.