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neversabrina

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...before you choose to breed rabbits for pets or meat.

I've been involved in rabbit rescue for over 30 years. There are already thousands of rabbits waiting for homes throughout this country in rescues, homes that for many will never come. There are thousands of rabbits dumped yearly by people who think they're cute for 5 minutes and then no longer want to care for them. Often they are not brought to shelters but dumped outside where a rabbit is lucky if it escapes a predator attack or illness and even luckier if a kind samaritan is able to catch it and find a rescue that is not already full and brimming with unwanted rabbits. These same rescues are working on shoestring budgets and generally 100% volunteer run trying to give these rabbits care.

You may say it's not me causing the problem but unless you're also involved in rabbit rescue, helping these discarded animals live better lives, find new homes with people willing to spend the money and time and give care for an animal that can live 8-12 years and are invested in the animal's long term well being you are indeed contributing to the problem. It's irresponsible to keep breeding rabbits while so many get dumped yearly, live short lives or die tragically. It's irresponsible to keep breeding rabbits while other good samaritans clean up a mess they neither caused nor contributed to.

Many people do not want to pay for the veterinary care needed for healthy rabbits and many people don't understand how quickly you need to move if you have an ill rabbit and/or a rabbit in stasis. Veterinary costs are expensive and it's expensive to care for a rabbit - often times more so than cats or dogs because of the specialized illnesses associated with rabbits. Unless a rabbit's owner lives near an urban area there are very few veterinarians across the United States that are knowledgeable, trained and experienced in rabbit medicine. Many people do not realize rabbits are not a good fit for young children and don't belong in petting zoos or classrooms. Many rabbits die within their first year when they are sold or given to families with young children, especially first time rabbit owners. It's disheartening, discouraging and a moral and ethical failure on the part of all involved in this industry to not take responsibility for the sad reality for many rabbits.

I've seen innumerable breeders sell their rabbits without RHDV2 vaccines while telling their customers it's ok to keep their rabbits outside. We have a RHDV2 pandemic in this country and it's a horrible and guaranteed death for a rabbit should they come in contact with this highly transmissible disease.

I've seem innumerable breeders sell their rabbits unspayed and unneutered. Far too many are sold as babies as the incorrect sex and more unwanted litters are born and dumped. Far too many female rabbits develop uterine cancer by age 3-4 because a pet owner does not want to pay for the veterinary care or was never informed that an unspayed female will most likely develop cancer.

If you're a meat breeder you are currently part of an industry that does not even consider a rabbit important enough to regulate farming standards for. There are multitudes of backyard and commercial breeders that do not care for their rabbits properly and provide miserable existences for these animals. You may say you are not one of those people but if you're not committed to advocating for legislative action that requires rabbits to have, at the very least, the same standards of protections as other famed animals which are currently, barely adequate in the U.S. as compared to many other western countries abroad, you are helping to perpetuate an industry that is inherently cruel and discompassionate. It teaches children to normalize cruelty and adults to act indifferently. Every animal that gives up its life through no choice of its own to feed you or someone else, at the very least, deserves a life free from cruelty and suffering. It's the very least we can do for another living being. There are far too many cases of neglect and cruelty in this industry throughout this country.

Lastly, you are the center of the universe for domesticated and/or farmed animal and, as such, have a moral obligation to be worthy of the trust they put in you from their very first to last dying breath. Please consider this as you move forward and give a thought to those of us that are picking up another discarded, abandoned or deceased pet rabbit or rescuing meat rabbits from abhorrent and heartbreaking living conditions. I'm exhausted, heartbroken and tired of cleaning up a mess I did not create and perhaps, more importantly, deeply saddened that these animals did not get the life they so deserved, each and every one.
 
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I can see your passion, and it's good.

But please, don't paint us all with the same brush. Just don't.
Telling me that I need to be asking for legislation on how to raise rabbits when they are VERY adaptable to a variety of housing methods. And who will make those decisions about how to properly care for rabbits? The HRS? I would certainly hope not. Rabbits thrive under a wide variety of feeding and housing methods. Who are we to tell someone that "oh, what you are doing is wrong because it doesn't meet the standard that I want"?

And yes, there are jerks in the world... just as with any industry.... but most people aren't jerks. We have to take good care of our animals in order for them to do well by us. There are also jerks in the child care, old folks, construction etc. And more legislation doesn't change that. It just means more restrictions on care or work options. Legislation doesn't change what people do, it just makes them sneakier.

Do mistakes happen in gendering rabbits? YES! But is that all on the breeder? I don't think so. Rabbits develop at different rates (hmm... just like with people) but one doesn't always know that eh? For instance, I've had a young rabbit that looks and acts and PRESENTS AS a young buck who magically (so it would seem) suddenly becomes a doe and it's like what? WHAT?? and it was just a slow maturing doe. AND have the exact opposite happen as well. And because rabbits are rabbits... and you can't always tell what's going on with them... Things happen. Should pet owners be checking their own rabbits? FOR SURE. They need to take responsibility for their purchase as well right? And the whole accidental "third" litter... like come on....

And asking breeders to neuter/spay rabbits before releasing them to new homes? Suddenly rabbits will be $700 each! AND it takes away options for people doesn't it? Perhaps that pet bunny ignites a flame of interest in a child and they go "Hey, I want to get into showing rabbits, and breeding better rabbits, for other people". Why should I make it more difficult for them? People make choices with their rabbits just like they do with their cars. (you might not want to hear that type of comparison) but they own them. It's their choice if they want to do surgery or not let their bunny not undergo a surgery that could potentially kill them. Rabbits DIE easily... and surgery is literally just one more risk. How does one tell a person they HAVE to do a risky surgery on their beloved pet?

On my end as a breeder/rescuer..... I do not understand rescues fixing up unhealthy animals when it's (since apparently there is an overload of rabbits) not financially responsible to do so. Why not just simply cull those rabbits by sending them to a licensed processor and letting those rabbits feed the poor. OR sending them off to a raptor rescue, or to the local zoo, or wherever. Send those rabbits who have been in the foster care system for months off to fulfill a rabbits purpose in life... to be part of the food chain. I do not understand that mindset of we have to save them all. where first you blame the breeder for letting rabbits off into the hands of the irresponsible pet public only for you to fix that rabbit up and then send it back into the hands of the same irresponsible pet public. But this time it's with a rabbit you KNOW isn't healthy... has a permanent head tilt, or needs daily meds or whatever. Let them GO and then you can fill their space with a rabbit that just maybe is a healthy, happy, problem free rabbit that someone wants in their home.

Please know... I UNDERSTAND your passion... but stop blaming. And start actually SOLVING. Cause this post... it's all about blaming people. And it's not helpful.

I love bunnies. I think they make for excellent pets. And I very much want to help people fall in love with bunnies. And yes, some people are idiots on purpose and other people just need help being better. We need to distinguish between the two. :) Perhaps, instead of blaming each other... we should actually try to understand each other a bit more. Then perhaps, just perhaps, solutions can be achieved?
 
I can see your passion, and it's good.

But please, don't paint us all with the same brush. Just don't.
Telling me that I need to be asking for legislation on how to raise rabbits when they are VERY adaptable to a variety of housing methods. And who will make those decisions about how to properly care for rabbits? The HRS? I would certainly hope not. Rabbits thrive under a wide variety of feeding and housing methods. Who are we to tell someone that "oh, what you are doing is wrong because it doesn't meet the standard that I want"?
Thank you for responding so civilly to the OP. Sometimes it is difficult to find the patience to do so. I appreciate the logic, open-mindedness, gentleness and charity that dominates on this site.
 
do not care for their rabbits properly and provide miserable existences for these animals. You may say you are not one of those people but if you're not committed to advocating for legislative action

While I empathize with your passion and chosen cause, and am an advocate of humane meat and animal rights, advocating for *legislative action* would go against my personal goals and ethics.

Ethics which I have consciously cultivated as the most optimal and progressive for each individual involved, and society as a whole, including the disadvantaged and vulnerable.

This is the book which convinced me, and which removed my anxious need to use government or argument to convince others to do the right thing. It really gave me so much freedom and time, improved my life and social skills, and released the insecurity and fear around other's choices.

How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World: A Handbook for Personal Liberty​

By Harry Browne


The audible is exceptional. PDFs available for free online too. Here's a YouTube link to free audio reading:
 
Healthy animals are cheapest to keep, so housing, care and feed to do so are smart if only out of enlightend selfintrest.
The people here are responsible in that no they will not dump unwanted animals somewhere because letting them be eaten is mean. They'll either eat them themselves or let them go to someone who will if that is one who will buy.

I don't want to add rescues also due to biosecurity reasons and although i don't sell rabbits now, if i did i would accept them back, although there would not be a refund and bunny would be one way to the freezer and not back in my rabbitry or anywhere near it. That would however make it doubtfull that buyers bring them back. Many times ¨nobody human/pet is allowed to eat fluffy" attitude is where the big problems start.

Rescue is sometimes needed, but mainly a big greyzone where needed care ends and the psycological need of the human to feel good starts. The worse condition the animal is in the more people donate to the rescue caring for it. However that is also mainly a group of animals whose quality of life is in serious doubt and euthanasia should be a much more serious option. Problem is that the animals that really would be back to full health with just a bit of TLC/groceries then don't get help due to no donations.

There is and always will be a big difference between those who just love watching baby animals (and can't/don't want to leave that at yt film and so on) and people who breed for either meat or other purpose AND are responsible about where the ones that can't stay/don't/can't be sold go).

You are preaching to the wrong people here, we all know that with breeding animals comes responsibility and if we couldn't face that we'd have quit. I started with just one litter for that reason. If i couldn't put them in the freezer or not eat them after that would have been it rabbit breeding wise. Doe, buck and litter would have been fixed or sold or a mix of both keeping 2-3 for fertilizer production for the veg. garden.
Inexperienced some here may be, but we do our homework (also part of why we are here, knowledge first practice after).

Laws have never been able to replace responsibility or common sense, please don't ever believe otherwise.
 
veterinary care needed for healthy rabbits
Not true, vets contribute to the suffering of animals more than they heal. It's a chop shop ran by capitalism, not science. Most of it - not unlike the human health care system - is anti science for profit. Their customer base is suffering firstly from white coat syndrome, and secondly from unnecessary, unscientific interventions. As it currently stands, it is systemic malpractice. Personally, I wouldn't get a vaccine or a check up (for myself or otherwise) until there's a system-wide overhaul.
 
I hope you realize,





That this is a place where both pet rabbit people and people who breed rabbits for some sort of reason are able to talk and ask questions
If someone messes up, they can make a thread and people will help them and give them tips on how to prevent that in the future
You're allowed to believe what you want (unless it's hurting other people or other animals), but I suggest not coming here and telling everyone to stop what they're doing or else they're terrible people
 
...before you choose to breed rabbits for pets or meat.

I've been involved in rabbit rescue for over 30 years. There are already thousands of rabbits waiting for homes throughout this country in rescues, homes that for many will never come. There are thousands of rabbits dumped yearly by people who think they're cute for 5 minutes and then no longer want to care for them. Often they are not brought to shelters but dumped outside where a rabbit is lucky if it escapes a predator attack or illness and even luckier if a kind samaritan is able to catch it and find a rescue that is not already full and brimming with unwanted rabbits. These same rescues are working on shoestring budgets and generally 100% volunteer run trying to give these rabbits care.

You may say it's not me causing the problem but unless you're also involved in rabbit rescue, helping these discarded animals live better lives, find new homes with people willing to spend the money and time and give care for an animal that can live 8-12 years and are invested in the animal's long term well being you are indeed contributing to the problem. It's irresponsible to keep breeding rabbits while so many get dumped yearly, live short lives or die tragically. It's irresponsible to keep breeding rabbits while other good samaritans clean up a mess they neither caused nor contributed to.

Many people do not want to pay for the veterinary care needed for healthy rabbits and many people don't understand how quickly you need to move if you have an ill rabbit and/or a rabbit in stasis. Veterinary costs are expensive and it's expensive to care for a rabbit - often times more so than cats or dogs because of the specialized illnesses associated with rabbits. Unless a rabbit's owner lives near an urban area there are very few veterinarians across the United States that are knowledgeable, trained and experienced in rabbit medicine. Many people do not realize rabbits are not a good fit for young children and don't belong in petting zoos or classrooms. Many rabbits die within their first year when they are sold or given to families with young children, especially first time rabbit owners. It's disheartening, discouraging and a moral and ethical failure on the part of all involved in this industry to not take responsibility for the sad reality for many rabbits.

I've seen innumerable breeders sell their rabbits without RHDV2 vaccines while telling their customers it's ok to keep their rabbits outside. We have a RHDV2 pandemic in this country and it's a horrible and guaranteed death for a rabbit should they come in contact with this highly transmissible disease.

I've seem innumerable breeders sell their rabbits unspayed and unneutered. Far too many are sold as babies as the incorrect sex and more unwanted litters are born and dumped. Far too many female rabbits develop uterine cancer by age 3-4 because a pet owner does not want to pay for the veterinary care or was never informed that an unspayed female will most likely develop cancer.

If you're a meat breeder you are currently part of an industry that does not even consider a rabbit important enough to regulate farming standards for. There are multitudes of backyard and commercial breeders that do not care for their rabbits properly and provide miserable existences for these animals. You may say you are not one of those people but if you're not committed to advocating for legislative action that requires rabbits to have, at the very least, the same standards of protections as other famed animals which are currently, barely adequate in the U.S. as compared to many other western countries abroad, you are helping to perpetuate an industry that is inherently cruel and discompassionate. It teaches children to normalize cruelty and adults to act indifferently. Every animal that gives up its life through no choice of its own to feed you or someone else, at the very least, deserves a life free from cruelty and suffering. It's the very least we can do for another living being. There are far too many cases of neglect and cruelty in this industry throughout this country.

Lastly, you are the center of the universe for domesticated and/or farmed animal and, as such, have a moral obligation to be worthy of the trust they put in you from their very first to last dying breath. Please consider this as you move forward and give a thought to those of us that are picking up another discarded, abandoned or deceased pet rabbit or rescuing meat rabbits from abhorrent and heartbreaking living conditions. I'm exhausted, heartbroken and tired of cleaning up a mess I did not create and perhaps, more importantly, deeply saddened that these animals did not get the life they so deserved, each and every one.
You think raising rabbits for food should be legislated? Tell me, how has that worked out for cows and chickens? Do you think cows standing in feces up their elbows is compassionate? Do you think chickens so crowded together they can't stand up is compassionate?

You may not like what we do but we do care for our rabbits because we eat them and want to eat healthy meat, not the meat from those "compassionate", legislated facilities. Go preach to them because you won't find an audience here.

My mother once said that some people just have to have a cause, and it's usually something to try to control other people's actions. This is yours. I am not impressed. I eat rabbits. I love my rabbits but they are not pets to me and they do not suffer from the day they are born to the day they go to freezer camp.
 
Rabbit folks are super people. I admire people who rescue animals. If you see someone abusing animals they should be reported or dealt with personally. How about we take care of the children being abused daily first? Blah blah blah I just stay in my own backyard and pray God can help us straighten out this huge mess. Raising rabbits is not for every one.
 
Excellent reply, Ladysown. I heartily agree with you, but I couldn't have said it half so well. Thank you!
Ladysown, beautifully, thoughtfully said, thank you for all of us who strive hard to raise healthy happy buns. Thank you for all the families whose lives are enriched and the children learn invaluable lessons in caring for and nurturing these amazing creatures. Thank you for all the young people in 4H, FFA, etc that learn amazing life skills in raising and showing rabbits.
 
Most here are well aware of the series of mistakes that added a litter of rabbits to our family.
Having admitted that, I've taken full responsibility for my blunders and will care for these critters for as long as it takes. Without compounding the problem!
It never even crossed my mind to dump them off at a rescue shelter!
The rabbits didn't sign up for this. It's 100% on me. Well maybe 90% & the balance going to the parents. They really do breed like rabbits!
Trust that I'll provide the best home I can.
 
"There are multitudes of backyard and commercial breeders that do not care for their rabbits properly"


A breeder that breeds to exploit and gain profit (contrary to popular beliefs there is very little to know profit in this industry) will absolutely do this, but not a breeder who breeds to sustain themselves (like a good portion of us here)
One mind set I will never understand is the "oh you're a meat breeder, that means you know nothing and I'm not taking any advice from you."
Meat breeders must rely on their animals being physically healthy, mentally healthy, and comfortable condition to be able to produce.
If a rabbit is injured, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is sick, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is depressed, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is agitated, stressed, scared, uncomfortable, etc. (I think you get the point) it will not serve the purpose that we have it for. To say we don’t care, to say we do not provide what is needed, etc. If completely false because we have to. Not only for the rabbits to thrive, but for us as well.

The people that usually do keep them in terrible conditions, sick, injured extra, are not true farmers/breeders. They are people that are ether miss-guided or have mental issues that cause them to ether not see that there is a problem, or like the problems that are occurring.
 
"There are multitudes of backyard and commercial breeders that do not care for their rabbits properly"


A breeder that breeds to exploit and gain profit (contrary to popular beliefs there is very little to know profit in this industry) will absolutely do this, but not a breeder who breeds to sustain themselves (like a good portion of us here)
One mind set I will never understand is the "oh you're a meat breeder, that means you know nothing and I'm not taking any advice from you."
Meat breeders must rely on their animals being physically healthy, mentally healthy, and comfortable condition to be able to produce.
If a rabbit is injured, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is sick, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is depressed, it will not produce.

If a rabbit is agitated, stressed, scared, uncomfortable, etc. (I think you get the point) it will not serve the purpose that we have it for. To say we don’t care, to say we do not provide what is needed, etc. If completely false because we have to. Not only for the rabbits to thrive, but for us as well.

The people that usually do keep them in terrible conditions, sick, injured extra, are not true farmers/breeders. They are people that are ether miss-guided or have mental issues that cause them to ether not see that there is a problem, or like the problems that are occurring.
All I have to say to this is 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
 
".before you choose to breed rabbits for pets or meat."

How on earth is anyone who is breeding for meat, where everything gets eaten in the end by someone, the problem in over population of pets?

Heck, breeders aren't usually the problem either, the pet buyers usually are. They're the ones not researching, the ones dumping or abandoning or letting them live in terrible conditions. Go after them.
 
".before you choose to breed rabbits for pets or meat."

How on earth is anyone who is breeding for meat, where everything gets eaten in the end by someone, the problem in over population of pets?

Heck, breeders aren't usually the problem either, the pet buyers usually are. They're the ones not researching, the ones dumping or abandoning or letting them live in terrible conditions. Go after them.
Then you have the other category... Stupid people like me who don't bother considering where baby rabbits come from.
My only defense is that I'm diligently trying to learn all I can to provide a decent home without making more rabbits.
 
From my time lurking there really aren't many people who sell rabbits into the pet world here.
That said, there's plenty of ways to sell rabbits as pets without contributing to shelters. I personally wouldn't sell without a contract (financial penalty for the rabbit turning up in a shelter or for resale so you have legal damages to stand on) and microchip in place and without knowing the basics about the person I'm selling to.

I've gotten 2 cats and 1 dog from 3 different shelters/rescues. Not a single one of those shelters ever gave me so much as a followup call regarding the new home or care of that pet. Meanwhile the rabbits I have bought from show breeders come with free advice and assistance for the LIFE of the rabbit. Same goes for the one cat I "bought" (you buy from shelters too, sorry to tell you) - her breeder and I maintain a relationship on facebook. Along with the epidemic of "shelters" mislabeling pets (" lab mixes" for pit bulls, "lab mixes" for huskies, etc.) and using emotional manipulation... I just think as long as people are responsible with who they sell to and buy from, these problems won't exist. Unfortunately there will always be irresponsible people, but scolding those who are responsible gets us nowhere. There IS a necessary place in this world for rabbit breeding, whether you want to get into heritage breeds, breeding for health (there is almost no scientific evidence for "hybrid vigor" of mutt rabbits), or breeding rabbits that have a purpose and a use.
 
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