Pasteurella treatment with Penicillin...

[OneAcreFarm]

I think we all need to find our own comfort level with culling. When someone expresses an opinion that a rabbit should probably be culled, it is just that: an opinion. No one ever says you have to cull, so use your own judgment. Some people have deeper pockets than others and can afford to try treating the rabbit. Many of us are not able to afford vet bills. Here it is $40 just for an office visit... and the meds on top of that.

Anyone who has gone through the devastating experience of a disease like Pasteurella sweeping through the rabbitry - as OneAcreFarm has - is bound to take a harder line on culling sick rabbits. I have been lucky here - illnesses are rare because I have a closed herd - but I still cull any rabbit that shows signs of a weak immune system.

I agree, each of us has a comfort level when it comes to dispatching animals. Based on my experiences, my comfort level is likely much lower than most when it comes to dealing with disease. Also, my rabbits are cage raised, so not really exposed to things on the ground that can be more easily treated. Quarantine is always my first line of defense, and since I instituted a strict quarantine protocol for new rabbits or rabbits with symptoms of an illness, I have not had any major illness issues. We don't have any rabbit savvy vets in our area...I probably know more about rabbit health than my regular vet does, so vet care is also not an option. There ARE times when I will intervene, though. I have a doe that I LOVE, Little Mama, and she got a terrible abcess in one teat. She is a beautiful Californian and very sweet tempered. I actually had my hubs hold her while I numbed the area, opened it, cleaned out all the abcess and removed the abcess wall so it would not return. Then I cleaned it out and stitched her up. She laid there the whole time and was so good! We treated her with ABX and kept her inside until she healed. I bred her and she has had two litters since then with no other mastitis or teat issues. So, in some cases, it is worth it to try to treat. I am just very selective about it.

 

[Stormy]

Wow OneAcre- you stitched her up yourself? without anesthetic and she let you? Or what did you use? I am very interested in figuring out more home vet care for these guys. I don't have deep pockets either. It costs me $75-$150 for the couple visits I had to make with my Belgian. In part, to ID the disease and get the right antibiotic and fluids, it was needed. Its not at all what I would like to be slapping on my credit card. But with rare rabbits I'm already forking out $65- $125 for the rabbit! Plus Jack is a pet. I won't do it again for my meat does, I did once and they couldn't save her anyways from gut stasis. I would do it for my rare breeds though, Beveren and Hotot, which have come from halfway across the country. To a point.

My vet has been cool about giving me a big ol' bottle of Duo-Pen and the calculations to treat the whole herd. She gets points. Although her dosage doesn't match Barbi Browns, we just emailed and she said she's been witnessing improperly cured vent disease for 28 years, and the only way to effectively cure it is the dosage she recommends - higher dose and frequency. I am bummed, after 3 weeks of treating 13 rabbits, with no symptom relief in sight.

So... I will be leaning more on Barbi's brilliant web page and advice http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ - but I bought my Beveren off her and have made several product orders - she has good supplies, so maybe that's why she's so helpful But her website is loaded with good stuff about disease treatments. My vet is awesome but no rabbit expert.

OneAcre, I am sorry to hear that Pasteurella ripped through your herd. That sounds very traumatic and painful. Oddly, my vet said that pasteurella is all over the place and that rabbits or other animals can often have populations of the bacteria on them without ill effect. So I am not sure why suddenly and animal would become really ill by it. I guess the flora and fauna out of balance? I myself have spent the last year after surgery and dealing with secondary and tertiary gut infections, I learned all about how normally occuring bacteria in the gut can become pathogenic if our normal healthy bacteria has been eliminated by anti-biotics, or digestive issues, etc. Maybe its a similar case with rabbits?

I would be mortified to bring home a rabbit sick with Pasteurella - is it discharge that is the tell tale sign? Most of my bunnies I've brought home had some light sneezing and after a week or two just cleared up, I was told this was normal due to stress.

By the way I've heard there is a rash (haha) of vent disease happening on the show tables lately- in Lodi most recently - people are treating topically but that alleviates symptoms without curing it from the body. Please don't topically treat! I am now really concerned about taking my rabbits to show - with all the diseases they can catch!

Oh, and if you do treat with anti-biotics, check out the Bene-Bac probiotics that Barbi carries, to help them maintain their healthy flora up in their gut.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

OneAcre, I am sorry to hear that Pasteurella ripped through your herd. That sounds very traumatic and painful. Oddly, my vet said that pasteurella is all over the place and that rabbits or other animals can often have populations of the bacteria on them without ill effect. So I am not sure why suddenly and animal would become really ill by it. I guess the flora and fauna out of balance? I myself have spent the last year after surgery and dealing with secondary and tertiary gut infections, I learned all about how normally occuring bacteria in the gut can become pathogenic if our normal healthy bacteria has been eliminated by anti-biotics, or digestive issues, etc. Maybe its a similar case with rabbits?

I would be mortified to bring home a rabbit sick with Pasteurella - is it discharge that is the tell tale sign? Most of my bunnies I've brought home had some light sneezing and after a week or two just cleared up, I was told this was normal due to stress.

Stormy, there are different strains of p.multocida, some are more virulent than others. In my case, I suspect the breeder of this bunny of medicating with ABX to knock down the symptoms long enough to sell them, as it only began displaying symptoms 2-3wks after being brought home. It got very sick, very quickly, with white snot, matted paws, bad lungs, etc. and it was extremely contagious. Infected three does that had week old litters and my buck. I tried treating the first doe that showed symptoms, but they came back after two weeks off the ABX. I culled the adults when the kits were 3.5 weeks and tried to see if any would be resistant....they weren't. One by one, they all fell sick.

I think that the light sneezing you are describing is more likely just a response to a new environment, or new hay or what have you. The issue is that when an animal gets stressed, it can bring out any latent infection. If it starts displaying symptoms, then it has a weaker immune system than I want in my herd. The problem with one that displays symtoms and then gets better is that you have no way of knowing if they are now a carrier or if they fought it off and now have antibodies against it. Just too big of a risk for me. Most rabbits likely have been exposed to P.multocida, and would have antibodies from it in their blood, but I don't believe that most rabbits actually CARRY a latent infection. It is like meningicoccal meningitis in people...did you know that you likely have it living in your throat and nose? Scary, right? Since it can kill you almost quicker than it can be treated. But, you don't have an infection, it just hangs out there from time to time, like staph aureus on your skin, also called Flesh Eating Bacteria, which causes necrotizing fasciitis. They are opporunistic pathogens and if you get cut there or lick your finger and then rub your eye, you can infect yourself with it.