Open vs. Closed Rabbitry

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I used "search" to see what's been discussed already - didn't really find the answer to my question. Our rabbitry has been open and, so far, we have not had any problems. However, I'm giving serious thought to closing it to visitors and conducting all future sales in the local Walmart parking lot.

Two questions:

1) Do you think closed rabbitries are becoming more common?

For those of you with closed rabbitries:

2) Are there any special logistics required when it comes to meeting folks off-site, problems to look out for, etc.?

Thanks!

 

[ladysown]

my blog post on closed rabbitries: http://athomepets.weebly.com/1/post/201 ... tries.html

I used to have an open door policy. A couple things made me change that.

1. a customer who criticized me for EVERYTHING... homeschooling, yard, my son, fence placement, rabbits, etc. You name it, she did it. and it was just a AHH!!!! timeline.

2. animal rights people (as opposed to animal welfare people) who are just downright nasty in how they talk to people. I don't need my son exposed to that.

3. theft. Pure and simple. if they don't know your set up, it's harder for them to be thieves. Lost three rabbits, one tank of mice, a guinea pig and had a son in tears. Don't need that garbage in my life thank you very much. (still makes me angry that).

Logistics...
Many of my rabbits get delivered to local major city so it's not an issue.
The rest meet me somewhere mutually convenient or in the summer meet on my front porch. The odd person if coming from a ways away are allowed entry into my front hall which my eight year does an excellent job of keeping tidy.

 

[Prisma]

I have a close rabbitry. I think given all the problems and concerns (health, security, ARAs, reporting by good intentioned people that really know nothing, etc) is becoming fairly "normal".

Not all places are OK with having people meet at their place. Not all places have an OK set of people coming around. Try to stick with ag friendly places, back of the lot. I tried Walmart, I avoid at all costs now because I had random people coming up wanting to pet the cute bunny and take one of the others I had in carriers home with them for nothing or cheap no matter how much I told them otherwise. I don't let random people handle my rabbits, I do not feel safe or OK with it (safety, health, don't want the rabbits to stress, etc). Then when they'd ask questions (which is great if they listen) they were always shocked I wouldn't prefer they go to "pet" homes rather than "breeding outdoor or indoor" homes since there were such "friendly" cute cuddle critters despite my information/talk on my goals as a show breeder and trouble I've had with a few pet homes. I do not go alone if I can at all, if I have to I have my cell phone in hand. If they give me creepy vibe/can't or won't listen to me when explaining/showing handling etc, I will cancel on site (and I explain this before meeting).

 

[ckcs]

This past year was my first year of breeding and I sold around 50 babies. I house our 19 (plus babies) rabbits inside our home. I have an open policy. I'm not overly concerned about letting people inside, disease transmission or animal rights people. I've actually never had a sick rabbit (going on 5 years of owning multiple rabbits), never ran into an ARA and never had a negative encounter with someone regarding a rabbit. First time I have a problem I will have to revisit my stance. I sell primarily to the pet market and am used to people taking time to pick out which rabbit from the litter they like best. I wouldn't want to be doing that in a parking lot somewhere. If people were just coming over to pick up a specific rabbit I would be more inclined to meet them outside or at another location. I'm a large guy too and find my customers seem more concern coming inside than I do with letting them in lol.

 

[mystang89]

I completely agree wit Ladysown. Plus my privacy and family is just too important to me to chance on someone whom I don't know coming over and getting ideas in there head. I have trust issues and if I don't know you, (as in family or life long friend,) then I don't want you near my house. (Can't do anything about my neighbors )

 

[Random Rabbit]

I am going to agree with Ladysown and Rebel Rose. There are too many very Strange people out there for me to be comfortable with people coming to our home. There have also been instances of not nice happenings as much as a year After a transaction was done at a person's home.

Sadly i have a running battle with DH... who IS quite proud of our rabbits and the work he did to make our barn a nicer building. It is so difficult... and So SAD ... to need to be so careful. But this current era of ars and armchair activists makes it necessary.

 

[Prisma]

Exactly Random...used to be able to have people over, loved showing every one off. Just can't afford to any more, too much risk I can't always get pictures of every body and every thing, right now I'm behind even lol. Makes it rather hard when want to see every rabbit and all but really can't get it done. Or one of those things were I'm not wanting to market/sell most of my pet pet rabbits this time around, rather them come and see in person...but that's going to be a problem and I've been thinking on that. SO I guess when/if I get a pet inquire, I'm going to have to have their pictures on hand too.

 

[BlueMoods]

If I don't know you, you won't get invited to my home. Too many nut cases, well meaning troublemakers and just plain idiots out there to have random strangers even knowing where I live, much less the headaches if a PETA type nut happened to show up.

I got enough flack form family and friends that didn't know squat about wolfdogs when I got one. I don't need that form strangers who don't know squat about rabbits. (family and friends are fine with wolfdogs now - they got educated.)

 

[luvabunny]

I have an open rabbitry and have no plans to change.

I am not concerned about someone bringing "something" into my rabbitry. Hasn't happened in 20 years, if it does, I'll deal with it then.

I show my rabbits. They are exposed to numerous other rabbits and people on a weekly basis. If they aren't healthy enough to handle it, then I don't need them in my barn.

I WANT people to come into my rabbitry. I WANT to educate them on the best way to handle, clean, and care for their rabbits. I WANT them to see the parents, see how large they will get, see what type of attitude/personality they should expect. I want them to stand around in the barn for a few minutes, listen and physically see that the animals are healthy, friendly, socialized, happy and well kept. I WANT them to know that these are not disposable playtoys, that the animals are always welcome back if circumstance changes and they can no longer be kept. I WANT that one on one feeling of having spent time with the new owner, and that the new owner feels comfortable enough with me to contact me again, should anything arise either good or bad.

I do not allow certain things in my barn however. These would include any dogs, even if they are little yappy things being carried in a little purse whose feet never hit the floor, and smoking. I also do not allow unruly children, nor unsupervised finger poking, running, screaming, etc. If the child is truly interested, and willing to follow direction, I love spending any amount of time with them allowing them to hold whichever bunny they please.

I have never had a problem with ARA. Okla is pretty agricultural and most people comment on the cleanliness and freshness of my rabbitry. Yes, there are some freaks out there, and I try to have at least a phone call conversation before allowing anyone my actual home address, same as I would do for anything. I feel the personal one on one attention I can give someone in my rabbitry far outweighs the possibility of something going wrong. And yes, I do have a 5 ft fence with a lock around my rabbitry, but that will only keep out the honest folks. I'm a firm believer that if someone wants something of yours bad enough, they will find a way, regardless.

 

[skysthelimit]

I have a closed rabbitry, I live too far in the city to allow anything else. If I let the wrong people know I have rabbits, especially pure bred show rabbits and rare breeds, I won't have any. I'm struggling with deciding whether I should lock the barn. For now the dogs keep people away from the house when I'm not home. And out of the barn when I am.

I'm not overly worried about disease. Someone mentioned not having people come over to see pups because of what they could track in, but I do go to dog and rabbit shows, fairs, other farms, sheep herding and competition, the zoo, even TSC trips, so pretty much worrying about germs is a concern but low on my list.

I am the only one here. 5'2" and tiny, and unless I'm going to carry a gun in my back pocket or put my faith in whether my dogs are really going to protect me, every time someone shows up at my house, it's a matter of concern. People actually have dogs stolen out of their yards here, letting someone on the property is like letting them case the joint before a robbery.

 

[Comet007]

This is something that I had to think about before I ever told anyone ITRW that we were going to breed meat rabbits. I have a nail salon in my home, with strict boundaries about where people can be - when they step into my front door, it's literally one step forward and two steps to the right and they are in my nail studio. I have shelves on castes that stand about 5 1/2' tall, when I'm working I roll them out to create a barrier around the entry, with just enough room between them for me to squeeze through into my kitchen. For insurance purposes and because I am a private person, I made it clear from the beginning when I moved my salon into my home that clients can only be in the studio area.

When it comes to the rabbits - I REALLY didn't want to be giving guided tours to 80 women who want to see the rabbits lol. Plus the terrain to get to them is a fairly steep slope and I wouldn't want to take the risk of a fall. Also, I know that many of my clients have animals that get sick and a few have other kinds of livestock - I've listened to many over the years who have experienced health issues with their animals, and I don't want to risk bringing that around my food source. So, whenever I tell a client that we are going to be raising meat rabbits, I tell them up front that it will be a closed rabbitry, and because they know me, not one person has been surprised by it!

As of right now, I don't think that I would ever sell a rabbit as a pet - but if I did meet someone that I felt really good about (and I know them) and decided to do so, then I would probably let them come down to the bunny barn. The same if I ever decide to sell breeding trio's. In both cases I would be happy to tell them about how we care for the buns and what to expect. If it was ever someone that we didn't know, I would just make sure that my DH (who's 6'4") is home.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

this is a good question and really it is up to you if you want a closed rabbitry or not. .. If I know you or have had more than one conversation on the phone.. I will let you see my rabbits .. but short and sweet. Other than that.. no one is allow to the barn or to the rabbits.. I have a fence around my property to keep my dogs in as I don't tie my dogs.. They let me know when someone is around

 

[DumansArk]

We used to have an open rabbitry. We loved having people tour the rabbits, and at the time, we had a variety of animals and people loved and recommended to others to come visit our "zoo".
It was fun - WHEN THEY WERE PEOPLE WE TRUSTED. And when they came at an appropriate hour.

But some people surprise you once they get in the door or beyond the fence. We too had thefts. We too had AR people - we even had animal control called on us when we didn't agree with one vengeful woman. We passed with flying colors - BUT IT WAS SCARY AND EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN A NIGHTMARE. We had a couple of potential buyers that we suddenly wished we had never allowed past the door - screaming children, cruel people, dogs we had to turn away (why would you bring your NOT RABBIT FRIENDLY dog to a stranger's house to look at rabbits without asking their permission to bring a dog??) dropped rabbits, inappropriate conversation to us *as* children ---- There came a point when we just didn't feel safe anymore and it DEFINITELY wasn't safe for the rabbits. This also put us in an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous situation when we insisted that people leave. Thinking to yourself "Oh I'd just tell them that they aren't suitable for a rabbit" sounds great, until you are faced with an angry person who wants this rabbit and won't back down and they don't want to leave. What options does that leave you? I can think of two: threaten them with force and/or police.
And if it gets to that situation, then you've just opened yourself to someone with a serious grudge against you and now they know where you live.

Never again.

I hope whatever you decide that you and your rabbits stay safe. Good luck!
Ladysown - I LOVE YOUR BLOG POST!

 

[dangerbunny]

This is something I am struggling with, as much as I love showing off my rabbits you hear soooooo many stories about people getting animals stolen and dealing with crazies. I'm leaning towards having a closed rabbitry, I guess right now it's semi closed as I keep most of my does and babies in a separate area. We also have other animals and kids around so I feel uncomfortable inviting random people around. Do you find buyers have an issue with closed barns? do you find it awkward to meet someone in a public place?

 

[BlueMoods]

I have only had one want to see my rabbit barn. I told them that if the condition of the rabbits I had with me for them to choose from was not enough to satisfy them that the animals are kept clean and well cared for, then I couldn't sell them a rabbit. I'm not putting my family, animals or, belongings at risk needlessly. I live in a nice, quiet, rural are with few problems and, I'd prefer to keep it that way for myself and my neighbors.

It isn't just my place, what if they cased other homes out here on the way and, robbed my neighbors because I gave them directions to get out here? I won't be responsible for that happening.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think it really depends on your location and personal comfort level.

We live in a very rural area (50 miles outside of Bakersfield), in the most conservative county in California. I have sold a lot more puppies than rabbits, and always have people come to our home.

Kern County is not a hotbed of ARA activity, being more agriculturally oriented. We have seven dogs and very aware neighbors that are either retired or work from home, so burglary is not something that is likely to happen. We are always armed- at home and elsewhere- and fully trained in defensive handgun, shotgun, and rifle techniques, so personal safety is not a pressing concern either.

We have met some really nice people, many with similar political and self sufficiency interests. Both Hubs and I really enjoy interacting with the buyers, and I like the fact that they are willing to stay as long as necessary to talk about proper care of the animals I am selling.

I personally prefer to see the living conditions and health of the other animals on the premises of any animal(s) I am considering purchasing. However, I would not hesitate to buy a rabbit at a show or have one shipped from a breeder of good reputation.

 

[Peach]

I guess I'm a semi-closed rabbitry, but I put closed on my website. I like to feel people out. If they don't feel ok, I meet them in the parking lot outside of a pet store. I just tell them at least I can help them then and there what equipment they need. I've never had anyone be upset at that and they are happy to meet me there.

If I feel they are really nice, I invite them over, but I also have a barn etiquette link above the emailing form. I do let them know now to leave pets and small kids at home. I had a pair of young twins literally go NUTS in the barn, opening cages, dumping feed, feeding foreign objects and that SUCKED.

Otherwise, I love having people over and usually they are shocked with how well kept it is and how well managed it is (I'm so anal when it comes to my rabbits! Maybe even a bit OCD?) . They usually have visited a few breeders, and apparently I've had the best barn when those kinds of people visit. Usually they visit a few of the "mill" breeders in the area that sell "cute bunnies" and they have poor equipment, overcrowding, urine stains, unsanitary conditions, and had a few people say several dead rabbits lying around. I know animals die, but left decaying in the middle of the isle is not ok!

I'll usually spend about an hour or so with per family so they can look at their size, get to learn some things that rescues sites fail to mention (like health, sore hocks & bad teeth are genetic! I always recommend the TSC wire cage, with the tray, jfeeder, and water bottle), basic care...ect. I get to answer their questions and we have a good time!

I don't sell many pet rabbits anymore, but every now and then I'll offer sweet bucks (Pet Quality does get culled). I'm just glad that when I do, I can offer something of good quality. I have had to deal with more more returns than I'd like (more food for me!), so it's left a bitter taste in my mouth and I screen even harder now!

 

[ckcs]

Do you find buyers have an issue with closed barns? do you find it awkward to meet someone in a public place?

I have met a couple of people outside of my home and didn't feel awkward. I do feel it is takes from my time and profit. When I have people come to get a rabbit I put the babies that are available in a carrier in my living room about 30 minutes before they arrive. This gives the babies a chance to use the bathroom and so far has eliminated any accidental peeing. I also have the box, information sheet and food ready to go. Some folks are in and out in a couple of minutes, others will stay and talk, either is fine with me. I will let people see the adults which are in my dining room and a laundry area.

I don't advocate just going through life taking chances at every turn. I do try however to keep things in perspective but admittedly fail. Your odds of being injured and or dying in a car are far greater than being harmed or killed by a stranger. I admit I'm more concerned about the stranger though. I also admit that I wouldn't have a person over to get a rabbit if only my wife was at home. I'm always there when people get a rabbit. I worry about her getting harmed even though I know she is more at risk driving to work. It is funny how the mind works when assessing risks. We locked our doors and windows, have guns and alarm systems, fire detectors, carbon monoxide detectors and so on. All while many of us are obese and or smoke.

I'd be curious if there has ever been data on craigslist danger. Are you more at risk meeting someone or having them come to your home. I suspect also that your risk goes up with certain items. I imagine selling electronic and jewelry are much more risky then a bunny rabbit.

Worth noting I have been robbed and knocked unconscious by a strange (actually strangers). When it happened I didn't suspect a thing and once we encountered each other there was nothing I could have done to change the outcome.

Also worth noting is that I now live 45 miles from PETA headquarter in Norfolk VA. Previously 20 miles. I can't remember the last time I've heard about them doing something crazy around here. I don't support some of what PETA and other ARA groups do and my belief certainly clashes with theirs. I believe we have dominion over animals and that barring abuse you can breed, eat, raise for fur or pelts as much as you want. Then there is the government tell us what to do with our animals, not enough time for that discussion though :evil:

 

[DogCatMom]

I think it really depends on your location and personal comfort level.

We live in a very rural area (50 miles outside of Bakersfield), in the most conservative county in California. I have sold a lot more puppies than rabbits, and always have people come to our home.

Kern County is not a hotbed of ARA activity, being more agriculturally oriented. We have seven dogs and very aware neighbors that are either retired or work from home, so burglary is not something that is likely to happen. We are always armed- at home and elsewhere- and fully trained in defensive handgun, shotgun, and rifle techniques, so personal safety is not a pressing concern either.

We have met some really nice people, many with similar political and self sufficiency interests. Both Hubs and I really enjoy interacting with the buyers, and I like the fact that they are willing to stay as long as necessary to talk about proper care of the animals I am selling.

I personally prefer to see the living conditions and health of the other animals on the premises of any animal(s) I am considering purchasing. However, I would not hesitate to buy a rabbit at a show or have one shipped from a breeder of good reputation.

1) Side question: I had thought, until I read your statement, that Orange County was the most conservative county in the state. Maybe I'm behind the times?

2) re. animals/biosecurity: The closest situation I think we've come to with regard to animals is when we adopted our recently deceased Bernese Mtn. Dog girl in July 2000. She was 16 weeks old and we had a resident adult male Berner who seemed lonely for a playmate/companion (he was neutered before we got him). The breeders, whom we knew already, brought her to *our* house, to scope out both the house's suitability for a Berner puppy (stairs and such, plus area to potty-train her in) and the attitude of the adult male towards this female pup, who was less than one-third his size. We never did see the inside of their house in San Francisco! not, at least, for several months after that, so I think we can say that they had a "closed" kennel, back in 2000. <br /><br /> __________ Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:12 pm __________ <br /><br />

I had a pair of young twins literally go NUTS in the barn, opening cages, dumping feed, feeding foreign objects and that SUCKED.

Oh. My. God. :shock: Where on earth were these kids' parents?! *One* cage should have had those parents hauling their kids back to the car, saying things like, "No bunnies! Not until you can act responsibly around them!" with an apology to you and an offer of the intended purchase price via a check or cash, notwithstanding the fact that you would still have the rabbit in residence.

I know that "laissez-faire parenting" is in vogue these days (esp. in the parts of the San Francisco Bay Area where I live and seem to travel), but that kind of destruction is actively harmful to the rabbits! :evil:

 

[Lizardslaps]

I keep keep a semi open rabbitry depending on what I think of them when they show up. No little kids or more than 3 people

I have everyone come to my house because of way to many flaky people if you show up you show up I didn't waste any of my time if you never showed up

Im not worried about burglary there's at least 2 people home at any given time 24/7 and the rabbits are 15ft outside my back door