No Tails, or small tails...what would cause?

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Summer ears is talked about in dwarf rabbits but in fact, what it is , is that some rabbits actually don't get a dwarf gene at all and have normal sized ears even though they still might be on the smallish size. We have had different lengths of ears in the same litter so the temp doesn't affect them. Seems to me if it was true then all those summer babies might die of too much heat loss during the colder months.It also doesn't make much sense in the wild either as rabbits live in places with extremes both ways of temps. Look at the Jackrabbit, sure the desert is quite hot during the day but at night can be very cold, also its cold in the winter as well. The little cottontail has tiny ears but lives in a hot summer/ cold winter climate as well. What I think is going on relates more to the amount of natural cover available and type of predator. The desert has very little cover and has hawks and eagles as predators. Those ears are big to catch the sound of an oncoming eagle more than to "dissipate" heat. A cottontail has lots of cover and doesn't need to hear from such a long distance away. The Arctic Hare has somewhat larger ears too, less cover again.

OK the cats that "hop" funny are 'Munchkins" they have a dwarf gene and cannot walk right. Manx Cats walk just fine and are born without tails.(Like my neighbour's cat) Australian Shepherds are also born totally tailess and do not have trouble walking. My nephew's dog is a disc dog and routinely makes amazing leaps and catches! The dog at our feed store is the same, an amazing jumper and back flip artist! Humans also used to have a tail, it is still present in a human embryo as well. What it means is there are some vertebrae missing from the end of the spine, nothing is compressed. Spina bifida is the incomplete encasing of the spinal cord itself and has nothing to do with the number of vertebrae.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

the cats that hop have been x-rayed-- they are deformed--too much nerve tissue, not enough spine

never mind--

 

[tailwagging]

Some "fact", Terry. I'd sure want to see statistics backing it up! I can believe that over thousands of years such an adaption might happen in areas of extremely hot or extremely cold climate, but not in the course of a summer.

I have heard many judges talk about summer born mini-rexs having longer ears.<br /><br />__________ Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:49 pm __________<br /><br />there are 3 typs of tails in manx.
rumpy(no tail missing vertebra) stumpy ( some tails) and longs (full tail)
rumpy needs to be bred to long to insure that there can be enough vertebra to hold the nerves to the bowels.

http://fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html#medical


skippers and pim corgys can have the same prob. any that can have a lack of normal vertebra.

skew tail in bull dogs and frenchies can have the probs as well as pugs, poms, chin any breed that doen't have the "normal" tailset coming off the back.

 

[akane]

Even if there is a difference in the young in ear length between summer and winter I bet by the time they are full adults the ears have evened out to the same length. Kind of like horses born in winter often have thicker coats but that doesn't mean they have thicker or longer coats than other horses. They just came out ready for the weather and as soon as they shed they'll be even with all the other horses.

 

[tailwagging]

not from what the judges say. but who knows.

 

[DevonW]

Some "fact", Terry. I'd sure want to see statistics backing it up! I can believe that over thousands of years such an adaption might happen in areas of extremely hot or extremely cold climate, but not in the course of a summer.

I have heard many judges talk about summer born mini-rexs having longer ears.

Just because they're a judge does not mean they know everything about rabbits, they know about type sure but there is no genetic component on the judging test. I have had judges talk about rabbits being "false" blacks because they had a bit of sunburn or rust colour from starting a moult.

I find it odd that "summer ears" only occurs in certain breeds that have a dwarf gene. Despite all their varying looks domestic rabbits are all Oryctolagus cuniculus, so if temperature effects one breed it should effect in all breeds which it plainly doesn't. From what I have learned in 10 years of raising rabbits (mainly Mini Rex) is that when a rabbit does not get a dwarf gene (thus having longer ears) some unsavoury breeders say it has "summer ears" in order to pass it off to unsuspecting newer breeders as show quality. (Don't worry they're just summer ears, they'll grow into them, it's not genetic blah blah blah).

 

[ladysown]

some unsavoury breeders say it has "summer ears"

pretty generic statement that.

so if a newbie is told this and then passes that information along...hmm... now they are unsavoury as well?

I find that bothersome to make that assumption.

Why not assume that a person is telling information as they happen to believe it, and may simply be misinformed. After all, I've heard it from a number of breeders...many of them more experienced in rabbits than I am. And how are we to know who is right and who is wrong?

It is something that I was taught, I don't know any better...but somehow from your statement that deems me to be unsavoury because I've passed along what I was taught. interesting indeed.

I'd rather assume that people don't know any better than to assume that they have a negative purpose in saying what they say. Could be true that they are deliberately passing along misinformation, but more likely that they are only passing along what they themselves have been told.

 

[tailwagging]

here are just two I found that where not dwarf breeds.

"The rabbits born in summer will naturally have longer ears"

http://heatonrabbitry.tripod.com/id18.html


"As an English Lop breeder, I definitely have seen rabbits born in
the summer have almost an inch larger ear length compared to some
born in very early spring or in the winter months….."

Jay Hreiz
ARBA Judge
VMD Cadidate 2008
The University of Pennsylvania
School of Veterinary Medicine

http://pets.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ ... sage/37927

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

some unsavoury breeders say it has "summer ears"

pretty generic statement that.

so if a newbie is told this and then passes that information along...hmm... now they are unsavoury as well?

I find that bothersome to make that assumption.

Why not assume that a person is telling information as they happen to believe it, and may simply be misinformed. After all, I've heard it from a number of breeders...many of them more experienced in rabbits than I am. And how are we to know who is right and who is wrong?

It is something that I was taught, I don't know any better...but somehow from your statement that deems me to be unsavoury because I've passed along what I was taught. interesting indeed.

I'd rather assume that people don't know any better than to assume that they have a negative purpose in saying what they say. Could be true that they are deliberately passing along misinformation, but more likely that they are only passing along what they themselves have been told.

Selling a rabbit and telling a potential buyer said rabbit will "grow into it ears and THUS be showable or even an "excellent specimen" is in fact promoting the "FUTURE ABILITIES" of that rabbit.Good Breeders for most part sell rabbits with NO CLAIM to future abilities!! In fact a reputable breeder can only claim past performances of that rabbit! In other words one shouldn't be forecasting what will happen in the future! anyways this thread is now officially.. fftopic:

 

[ladysown]

Not sure about closing a topic but anyways. People sell rabbits as show quality all the time. Whether they are or not. But however people do things, they often follow what they've been taught to do.

I've gotten updates on the kits and they are by all intents and purposes perfectly normal kits with their growth rates, gaits and what not. Just the anomaly of some with tails, some without tails, and some with short tails.

The doe did unexpectedly die so not sure what's up with that. But the kits apparently are doing well.