New zealand flemish mixes

[TibsyRose]

Pros and cons of new zealand flemish mixes please? We will be adding a giant flemish doe to our other two meat rabbits (blue rex doe and new zealand REW buck) and I was curious.

 

[Sagebrush]

I like them as terminal crosses, unless I am trying to fix one trait in either the Flemish or the NZ. I prefer using a NZ buck over a Flemish doe as I then do not have to worry about kindling with the Doe. The kits will mature faster than pure Flemish and will have a bit better meat to bone ration. Kits are usually sweet as pie and meet you at the cage door and then it is harder to process them later.
Edited to add: Smaller litter size is typical in this cross for me, though my Flemish does have large litters (12-17 kits per litter) with the NZ cross I typically had 6-10 kits in a litter.

 

[TibsyRose]

I like them as terminal crosses, unless I am trying to fix one trait in either the Flemish or the NZ. I prefer using a NZ buck over a Flemish doe as I then do not have to worry about kindling with the Doe. The kits will mature faster than pure Flemish and will have a bit better meat to bone ration. Kits are usually sweet as pie and meet you at the cage door and then it is harder to process them later.
Edited to add: Smaller litter size is typical in this cross for me, though my Flemish does have large litters (12-17 kits per litter) with the NZ cross I typically had 6-10 kits in a litter.

Thank you!!!

 

[Alaska Satin]

Pros and cons of new zealand flemish mixes please? We will be adding a giant flemish doe to our other two meat rabbits (blue rex doe and new zealand REW buck) and I was curious.

I experimented with Flemish cross some time ago. I used Flemish bucks with Californians and Satins (I had NZs too but did not use them in the Flemish experiments). I never had any issues with does having a hard time kindling; as it turns out, most rabbit kits are pretty close to the same size at birth. In my experience it's more likely does will have problems not because the kits are a little larger, but rather because the doe is pinched, or the kits have a large, blocky head. (This is not true, though, for truly gigantic kits that sometimes occur because of a deficiency or an imbalance in the feed - those definitely do cause problems.)

The Flemish cross bunnies looked bigger and weighed more than the purebreds at the same age. However, when I dressed them out, they actually had the same or slightly less meat than the purebreds. What they did have, in spades, was a heavy pelt, ears and bones. The other negative was that they ate a LOT more than the Cals and Satins (both the adult bucks and the grow-outs, even the ones in the tractors), to produce the same or less meat. So I dropped the Flemish experiment because I didn't want to be spending extra money on pellets to grow bones, ears and immature pelts.

All of my crossbred growouts had much heavier bone than I wanted, but I know some breeders that had the opposite problem. They were using Flemish to increase the size of their meat rabbits, and while the rabbits definitely got bigger, their bone mass and density apparently did not keep up. I don't believe they had problems with the growouts but their adults ended up with bone and joint problems. So yeah, a terminal cross is probably in order.

It seems that everyone up here has to try it - using Flemish to try to increase the size of their meat rabbits. But when everyone had the same results, I started thinking about it, and it made sense. Meat rabbits seem to have an upper limit to the weight they can bear with a medium frame, which apparently is about 11-12 pounds, or the maximum weight of New Zealands and Champagnes (many other meat breeds top out at 11bs). It seems that once the rabbit pushes much past that, they really need the heavier bone to support the additional weight. In a meat growout with a lifespan of 8-10 weeks, that's probably not going to be a big concern. But while a Flemish cross will certainly grow faster than a purebred Flemish, it will also grow slower than a purebred meat breed, and you'll lose the super feed efficiency bred into high-quality meat rabbit lines. After a few tries with the crosses, I went back to the purebreds. Rather than feed a Flemish (they eat like horses!), I'd invest in a high-quality, high-efficiency New Zealand, Cal or Satin. The Flemish crosses just couldn't compete with lines which had been selectively bred for generations specifically for performance in meat production.

 

[TKT]

Plus one. I think Flemish are awesome and if I didn't have to worry about my furniture and my cords I'd love to have one as a house bunny. But the costs didn't work for me. I am doing fine with my New Zealands and my American Blues. My blue does when adult run average 10 to 11 lb, the New Zealands a bit bigger. I think my crosses were only a half pound to a pound bigger than that. I ended up eating all of them, both the litters and parents. I did note that the crosses ate more.

 

[TibsyRose]

I experimented with Flemish cross some time ago. I used Flemish bucks with Californians and Satins (I had NZs too but did not use them in the Flemish experiments). I never had any issues with does having a hard time kindling; as it turns out, most rabbit kits are pretty close to the same size at birth. In my experience it's more likely does will have problems not because the kits are a little larger, but rather because the doe is pinched, or the kits have a large, blocky head. (This is not true, though, for truly gigantic kits that sometimes occur because of a deficiency or an imbalance in the feed - those definitely do cause problems.)

The Flemish cross bunnies looked bigger and weighed more than the purebreds at the same age. However, when I dressed them out, they actually had the same or slightly less meat than the purebreds. What they did have, in spades, was a heavy pelt, ears and bones. The other negative was that they ate a LOT more than the Cals and Satins (both the adult bucks and the grow-outs, even the ones in the tractors), to produce the same or less meat. So I dropped the Flemish experiment because I didn't want to be spending extra money on pellets to grow bones, ears and immature pelts.

All of my crossbred growouts had much heavier bone than I wanted, but I know some breeders that had the opposite problem. They were using Flemish to increase the size of their meat rabbits, and while the rabbits definitely got bigger, their bone mass and density apparently did not keep up. I don't believe they had problems with the growouts but their adults ended up with bone and joint problems. So yeah, a terminal cross is probably in order.

It seems that everyone up here has to try it - using Flemish to try to increase the size of their meat rabbits. But when everyone had the same results, I started thinking about it, and it made sense. Meat rabbits seem to have an upper limit to the weight they can bear with a medium frame, which apparently is about 11-12 pounds, or the maximum weight of New Zealands and Champagnes (many other meat breeds top out at 11bs). It seems that once the rabbit pushes much past that, they really need the heavier bone to support the additional weight. In a meat growout with a lifespan of 8-10 weeks, that's probably not going to be a big concern. But while a Flemish cross will certainly grow faster than a purebred Flemish, it will also grow slower than a purebred meat breed, and you'll lose the super feed efficiency bred into high-quality meat rabbit lines. After a few tries with the crosses, I went back to the purebreds. Rather than feed a Flemish (they eat like horses!), I'd invest in a high-quality, high-efficiency New Zealand, Cal or Satin. The Flemish crosses just couldn't compete with lines which had been selectively bred for generations specifically for performance in meat production.

Thank you!! The whole reason I'm asking is because I couldn't turn down the price the flemish giant doe was being offered for, plus the hutch we'll also be getting.
Silver foxes are the next we'll be looking into for meat production.