New With Rabbit Genetics

[katievictoria]

Hello. This year I decided to breed a few rabbits for our 4-H club. I obtained 6 New Zealand rabbits, 4 does and 2 bucks, from various places including a couple from a swap meet where I knew it was hard to say what I'd end up with. 3 of my does and 1 buck are REW (albino), which is what most of the kids will want babies from. My other buck is red with a lot of agouti looking hairs here and there. The other doe is a broken, fairly nice pattern but not great coloring - sort of dark agouti spotting with a tiny patch of light tan at the nape behind the ears. I got these two colored rabbits just for fun, to try to learn a little about genetics which is fascinating to me, but so far I only barely understand. (Not much of a genetic challenge with the REW ones, LOL) So I bred the broken doe and and the red buck and I came up with quite a mix among the kits. I have all solid colors, 2 dark (born black) that have a lot of banding on the hairs, but I haven't inspected them cloe enough to describe the banding yet. One is darker than the other. They both have brown eyes, as do both parents. Next, I have 1 light tan or beige or fawn, (blond color with an ever so light orange tint. This one also has brown eyes. Then the last 2 really surprised me. They were white, and I figured when their eyes opened they'd have brown eyes. . . . But NO they are red! I know enough to realize that both parents had to be carrying the recessive "c" but find it delightful that they buth passed them on, not just once but twice! That's pretty cool. Now can anyone help me figure out what happened with the others, and whether it might be interesting to keep the "blond" one for future breeding? BTW, whatever rabbits I end up with that the 4-H kids don't want, and I don't keep for breeding are going into the freezer, so I'm not going to end up with any that won't be useful in some way.

 

[Dood]

A true "red" NZ carries two recessive copies of the "wideband" gene which will help to colour their bellies red instead of white and I suspect the blond kit is a fawn which is a red that lacks two of these genes.

Since she must have inherited one wideband gene from her father, if you breed this kit to the him you should get 50% fawns like the dam and 50% red like the sire but there is a chance she also got the red eyed white gene and you could get a few of these

 

[Zass]

It sounds like your black kits with banding are probably steels. There is a ton of variation in those, but basically, steel extends the dark part of the hair shaft on an agouti based rabbit.

 

[katievictoria]

Thank you both very much. Now I'll get busy and start looking up the gene series that are responsible for these things, and start trying to map out their color genetics (as well as the parents). My original intention was to try to raise a few reds, blacks, (had a black doe but lost her during the winter) and possibly a few blues later on, just to give the kids a few choices, and to give me a little something to be excited about. Some kids do like the colored NZ, just for a change. Also, of course I want to work on other things, like quality of the meat, and maybe breed a grand champion some day. BTW, these mixed colored kits are fat as little butter balls, and outweigh the kits from my REW litters, so I think I have good meat quality in them, as well as nice colors!

 

[Dood]

Now I'll get busy and start looking up the gene series that are responsible for these things,

I actually prefer the genotype nomenclature but it is Greek to most people

Red buck
= A_ B_ Cc D_ ee ww (wideband) enen (broken AKA English Spot gene)

Broken dark agouti doe (possible gold tipped steel) chestnut
= A_ B_ Cc D_ Es e W_ ENen
= A_ B_ Cc D_ Ee W_ ENen

Fawn/orange kit
= A_ B_ C_ D_ ee Ww enen

Kits born black now with banding (poss. gold tipped steel) chestnut
= A_ B_ C_ D_ Ee Ww enen

 

[katievictoria]

Thank you Dood, so much. I will prefer that nomenclature too as soon as I become somewhere near fluent with it. LOL I do understand basic genetics, and actually took a couple of courses in college. But it was human genetics, and I was specificly studying psychology. That's a far cry from rabbit color. I did look up cat color once, but that was pretty simple compared to this as some of the color genes are connected with gender, so you only have half as much to learn.

So I'm supposing that for the two REW kits, all we really know for sure is the "cc" for albinoism, since that could be masking almost anything else. I wondered why I didn't get any broken ones, but maybe the REW ones would have been. Who knows?

Thank you so much. This really helps a lot!

__________ Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:02 am __________

I finally got some pics of the kits we've been talking about here. . . . the offspring of my broken spot doe and red buck. I didn't photo the 2 REW's as I guess we'd all know what they would look like. LOL Now if I can figure out how to post the pics, we'll be ok. Anyone looking, please tell me if we gu?essed them right from what you can see. Sorry, my photography and the lighting was not the greatest. BTW they are now 19 days old.

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__________ Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:14 am __________

Ooooppppsssss . . . . Messed up and posted same pic twice. This is the photo that should have appeared first.



I'll post the two possible gold tipped steels in seperate replies.

__________ Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:38 am __________

Now for the little guys we think might be possible gold tipped steels. These were the two that were born black. This first one is generally a uniform color all over. We'll call him Steel #1.





This one is the darker of the two. Next one coming up.

__________ Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:29 am __________

opcorn: Well it's definitely confusing to this newby to the forum to figure out how to get the photos in the orders I want them. LOL But on to our last one. We'll call him Steel #2. He's actually changing from day to day in front of my eyes. Remember, these last two "Steels" were both born black.'
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Please dont hesitate to leave any comments about what may be going one withese little guys. Thanks! <br /><br /> __________ Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:38 am __________ <br /><br /> Gee, I'm really confused about the order of these pics! The very last pic is of "Fawn" and I don't know how her pics got so messes up! I loaded them all first. Maybe someone can explain!

 

[Zass]

To me, they look pretty much like normal chestnut agoutis.
Do you have any pics from before they were all furred out?

 

[Dood]

I agree they are chestnut but the fawn is definitely a fawn

I have edited my previous post with the genotypes

Chestnuts are born with a black saddle/back area but have lighter coloured bellies.

Blacks and steel are born black all over and will have a dark coloured belly. At a few days old the steels usually get a bit of brown fur behind the ears and will get more and more brown ticking as they mature.

7 days old - (gold tipped) Steel on the left, (harlequin) chestnut on the right

 

[katievictoria]

Thanks once again guys! No Zass, unfortunately I didn't take any pics of them when they were first born. Threse does were all new (to me) and I wasn't sure how they would react to me messing too much with their babies. I opted to be safe instead of sorry. I would check them out briefly and then get out of there!

HOWEVER . . . . . Dood the "chestnut" kits did look just like your black kit in your photo. They didn't seem to have lighter bellies. My daughter and I both agree that they looked just completely all black. She's younger than me so I trust her vision and memory a lot morore than mine. LOL And they did start changing colorsafter about the first week . . . starting mostly around the head and down the the back of their necks. Each day they looked lik different kits! I remember this so well because one of my grandchildren said he wanted the black one with the brown head just for a pet. LOL But in the next few days we didn't know which one thst was. But I'm willing to go on whatever you guys say. You are a lot more experienced at this than me!

At least I do have my FAWN, and I'm pretty sure she's a doe. Just starting to tell some difference in that area! So I'll be able to kee p her and breed her back to her sire and maybe get a nice red line going. Thank you both so much! This is really fun for me!