New to rabbits--Do I have this right?

[Brass]

Hi! I'm new here and I want to make sure I have this natural feeding thing organized before I get the rabbits. I have been reading this forum but I do have lingering questions.

I'm planning on raising rabbits for meat, although the bucks and does I retain for breeding will hopefully also be pets. At the moment I'm planning on getting two proven does and one or two bucks. I'd like Silver Foxes or Satins. I'll start out feeding them the pellets they are used to and then transition. Eventually I plan to add in fresh cut grasses/weeds/plants and possibly sprout fodder.

This is what I've got figured out so far:

Free choice grass hay. We make our own and it's often a mix of red/white/alsac clover and tree-foil as well as grasses. Alfalfa doesn't grow around here. I could probably get a few bales from out of the area OR feed alfalfa cubes or alfalfa/timothy mix cubes (which I feed to the horses so it would be convenient).

How much hay cubes do you feed per bunny?

Grains: Barley and Oats, top dressed with BOSS and Flax "as needed" (How do you know when it is needed? How much of all these grains do you feed? Once a day? Twice?). Barley and Oats are my first choices as I can get them locally grown and organic. Wheat may also be an option. I read that too much BOSS is bad because it causes fat to accumulate internally.

Salt/Mineral block

Apple Cider Vinegar added to the watering system (how much? 1 or 2 TBSP/gallon?)

Any other needed supplements? I read on another post about something you should put in the water for pregnant and lactating does. I haven't been able to find it since…..

How do you know your rabbit is getting "enough" food? The breeder that I'm investigating for the Silver Foxes but I believe they are all show/pellet rabbits. I have no idea how they'll transition to a pellet free diet.

Feeders--- J feeders are mentioned frequently…. is there a better option? How do you feed your hay/cubes/grains? These "crocs" people mention….. small ramekins? Available at TSC?


Thanks for all your help. I'm really excited about this project and want to make sure it is done 'right.'

 

[dayna]

Hopefully someone better at nutrition can answer this for you.

Welcome to the wonderful world of rabbit nutrition. You will find for each person, you get a different answer. I think the reason why, is because we don't always know what is best for the rabbits, and each rabbit is an individual.


I've spent YEARS researching parrot nutrition on a forage natural based diet. I'm no closer to figuring it out than I was 10 years ago when I started that research. I've got tons of books, papers, have written my OWN papers and still just don't know.

 

[Brass]

Hopefully someone better at nutrition can answer this for you.

Welcome to the wonderful world of rabbit nutrition. You will find for each person, you get a different answer. I think the reason why, is because we don't always know what is best for the rabbits, and each rabbit is an individual.


I've spent YEARS researching parrot nutrition on a forage natural based diet. I'm no closer to figuring it out than I was 10 years ago when I started that research. I've got tons of books, papers, have written my OWN papers and still just don't know.

Thanks for your post. I have noticed there are a LOT of opinions on this subject on this forum alone... I'm happy to sift through the posts and figure it out as I go, but at this time I feel like I have too many holes in my knowledge to do right by the bunnies. I'm sure that if left to my own devices I'd get it right over time...

And what is this about? : ancake:

 

[Zass]

Grains: Barley and Oats, top dressed with BOSS and Flax "as needed" (How do you know when it is needed? How much of all these grains do you feed? Once a day? Twice?). Barley and Oats are my first choices as I can get them locally grown and organic. Wheat may also be an option. I read that too much BOSS is bad because it causes fat to accumulate internally.

To start,
I raise meat rabbits who are also my pets. If that makes sense to you It's not always easy, but I think we have a better relationship for it.


I feed mostly pellets, but I also use oats, boss, flax, orchard grass hay, garden trimmings, fresh greens and weeds, and also quantities of dried herbs as fodder in my rabbit diets.

Switch to new foods one-at-a-time and watch the buns closely for digestive upsets.

I don't give any apple cider vinegar. What is it intended for? I don't put anything in the water for pregnant or lactating does. It's something I would look into more only if I had an imbalance to correct.

I give flax or boss as a treat, it's really great for putting weight back on rabbits who have for (some reason or another) lost some weight. To sum that up, I find it mostly a useful weight maintenance tool. - and the rabbits love you for it.

Hay cubes - can be placed in a crock or tossed on the wire floor of the pen. It makes a good boredom buster and give them something to work their teeth on.
I give one or two a day, some rabbits will eat two, some will only nibble part of one.
You can look for crocks at dollar tree or any discount store. I use heavy ceramic dog dishes...they have goofy pics and say "princess" on them, but the rabbits don't mind at all. :lol:

Rabbits have enough food when they are carrying and maintaining their weight well. You will learn your individual buns and be able to tell when one isn't getting enough, or if someone has too much, by feel.

And I dunno what this is about....but I use it a lot, because my favorite doe also happens to be named Pancake <3
ancake:

 

[Dood]

Clover and trefoil are excellent protein sources for rabbits and these, along with vetch, are what my rabbits get in the summer. Alfalfa hay is easier to come by which is why it is recommended but any high protein plants including fodder sprouts, tree leaves like mulberry, young pea and bean plants can all be used to get as close to 18% protein as possible.

Grass hays are to add roughage, fibre and prevent boredom since they an eat as much as they want with less chance of getting obese and having the associated fertility problems.

Currently i feed free choice grass hay, a small handful of legume hay, 2 ounces of grains and 2 to 4 ounces of pellets. I go by feel on when a rabbit needs more grains. Rabbit milk is very rich in protein and fat so my lactating does also get 1-3 cups if pellets depending on how much the kits are eating and extra grains to help keep a good body condition. If they lose some muscle I wait to breed them until they are back in form. Weaned kits get free fed pellets as well.

I give raw apple cider vinegar to my dogs to help them digest cellulose and promote these bacteria in their gut but rabbits are naturally herbivorous and I don't feel they need it. I would use it if a rabbit had diahrea to help repopulate the "good" bacteria but so far I haven't had any enteritis issues.

 

[arachyd]

I won't comment on the feed itself except to say do everything slowly when you make changes. As to the crocks and J feeders, rabbits are terrible diggers and they love to play with things. They tend to tip bowls and dishes just for something to toss around and many will make it their day's goal to dig every bit of useful feed out of whatever you put it into - without eating it. Unless you can afford to have your feed fall through the bottom of the cage into whatever waste also lands there you will use crocks or dishes that are very heavy or some sort of J feeder. The J feeder can't be pulled fully into the cage and doesn't allow much room for digging. I use crocks because my cages aren't able to be cut for J feeders. I also use crocks for water as my rabbits have always either played with their water bottles till they were empty or managed to chew the caps so they were destroyed.

 

[Miss M]

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Brass! :welcomewagon:

Rabbits do come with their own learning curve that can be pretty steep sometimes, so it would probably be good to keep them on pellets for a while, while you get up to speed on rabbits. Then perhaps transition to the natural diet, so you're not trying to learn everything at once. But hey, if you want to jump right in, you see there's lots of help around here.

J-feeders and bottles for my buns... they like to play with crocks too much. And they don't chew their bottles. :roll:

__________ Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:08 pm __________

And what is this about? : ancake:

This is where it came from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong_%28rabbit%29

The famous picture of Oolong with a pancake (actually, it's some other sort of pancake-like Japanese thing) on his head was turned into an even more famous meme, with the caption, "I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head."

 

[Brass]

To start,
I raise meat rabbits who are also my pets. If that makes sense to you It's not always easy, but I think we have a better relationship for it.

Switch to new foods one-at-a-time and watch the buns closely for digestive upsets.

I don't give any apple cider vinegar. What is it intended for? I don't put anything in the water for pregnant or lactating does. It's something I would look into more only if I had an imbalance to correct.

Thanks for your input! I plan to also raise pet/meat rabbits. I really like to have a connection to the animals I raise and I like to have animals I enjoy being around.... so to make the Moms and Dads into pets seems like a win-win for me.

I will definitely switch slowly and add in one food at a time. If organic and GMO free pellets were available for a reasonable price (or even available LOCALLY) I'd certainly consider using them. One reason we are going to raising rabbits is for a sustainable, 'clean' meat source.

The ACV, no idea what it is intended for. I've come across it frequently enough on here though that it seemed to be 'the standard'?

__________ Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:06 am __________

Clover and trefoil are excellent protein sources for rabbits and these, along with vetch, are what my rabbits get in the summer. Alfalfa hay is easier to come by which is why it is recommended but any high protein plants including fodder sprouts, tree leaves like mulberry, young pea and bean plants can all be used to get as close to 18% protein as possible.

Thanks! Your whole post is very helpful. We can't get alfalfa hay here, but the trefoil and clover are ABUNDANT. The horses don't like trefoil so much so we can easily use the trefoil-heavy fields for rabbits.

To calculate protein percentages.... um, how? So if you have X% protein alfalfa and X% protein clover/trefoil, do you just add that up? Or do you have to calculate somehow how much of each they are eating?

I'd love to feed pellets for ease and convenience, but unfortunately there are no good organic pellets available near us for a reasonable price. We are raising these rabbits to eat and want them to be as close to organic as possible. This is one big reason we are going to raise our own meat.

I'm going to have to look for a good book on identifying weeds/plants!

__________ Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:09 am __________

I won't comment on the feed itself except to say do everything slowly when you make changes. As to the crocks and J feeders, rabbits are terrible diggers and they love to play with things. They tend to tip bowls and dishes just for something to toss around and many will make it their day's goal to dig every bit of useful feed out of whatever you put it into - without eating it. Unless you can afford to have your feed fall through the bottom of the cage into whatever waste also lands there you will use crocks or dishes that are very heavy or some sort of J feeder. The J feeder can't be pulled fully into the cage and doesn't allow much room for digging. I use crocks because my cages aren't able to be cut for J feeders. I also use crocks for water as my rabbits have always either played with their water bottles till they were empty or managed to chew the caps so they were destroyed.

I will ABSOLUTELY make changes slowly. Espeically as I suspect any rabbits I get will be used to pellet only diets.

I'm planning on a gravity fed watering system (5 gal bucket, hoses, nozzles), and hay racks on the outside of the cages (I assume they pull the hay through the bars?).

So for feeding grain--what is the best type of 'hung' feeder for that? The idea of a rabbit simply wasting the grains, etc, is unappealing. Obviously there will be SOME waste but I'd like to minimize that if I can. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:11 am __________ <br /><br />

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Brass! :welcomewagon:

Rabbits do come with their own learning curve that can be pretty steep sometimes, so it would probably be good to keep them on pellets for a while, while you get up to speed on rabbits. Then perhaps transition to the natural diet, so you're not trying to learn everything at once. But hey, if you want to jump right in, you see there's lots of help around here.

J-feeders and bottles for my buns... they like to play with crocks too much. And they don't chew their bottles. :roll:

Love. That. Meme.! It made me laugh.

I definitely plan to keep the buns on pellets, then transition to free choice grass/clover/trefoil hay and then add in alfalfa hay/cubes and grains, and then fresh greens.... ideally.... Sloooooooowly. I do have some people here locally that have been VERY helpful with this endeavor so far but are inexperienced with a non-pelleted diet.


So this *IS* a viable way to feed meat rabbits, right? The difference between this and pellets is slower growth rate?

 

[Dood]

So this *IS* a viable way to feed meat rabbits, right?

YES !

The difference between this and pellets is slower growth rate?

Not necessarily. If you can get to 18% protein on this diet then growth should be pretty comparable and if you also do selective breeding for stock that does better on forage you could get better growth in just a few generations.

 

[skysthelimit]

The ACV is supposed to reduce smell of the urine, and add some type of trace minerals and natural good bacterial for a healthy gut and supposedly increased fertility. Some people have had good results, but I have never had any results from adding ACV other than raising my feed bill. I do however, use it to clean cuts, and treat the occasional wet dew lap fungal outbreak.

 

[BlueMoods]

I keep it simple, mine get a ration of pellets and free fed alfalfa and oat cubes, then they go in rabbit tractors in the summer and don''t have the cubes since they have grass, dandelion, clover, etc to eat out there. No ACV, never got any results with that, just an added expense I don't need.

I have leaf lettuce, basil and other things form the garden when it's growing and, the rabbits get what I don't need for the house. (I dry and can enough for the house for the year, then the rest is for rabbits, chickens or the pig, whoever will eat it.

I know a lot of people want to do w/o pellets but, I see nothing wrong with them, they insure my rabbits get the vitamins and minerals they need in a cost effective form.

 

[skysthelimit]

Feeders--- J feeders are mentioned frequently…. is there a better option? How do you feed your hay/cubes/grains? These "crocs" people mention….. small ramekins? Available at TSC?

This has been a question I'd been meaning to ask. When I added a few grains a while back, I lost most through the metal j feeders, and that caused money issues and multiplied my mouse problem. The EZ feeders work better for grains, but are more expensive and the buns eat them like paper. Hay cubes do not fit down standard J feeders, but they will fit into the wide feeders and EZ crocks.

I have hay racks, bunnies pull the hay through and throw it all over the floor, once I caught some kits sleeping in the hay rack. I need to put them on the outside but space is limited. So far the best solution for the hay racks were the bird suet feeders, but I got tired of filling those for 30 plus rabbits and went back to throwing the hay in the cage.

Crocks can take many forms. There are rabbit specific crocks, that hook or attach to the cage in some way, usually made of hard plastic. I have those, I have small dollar store dog dishes, and I have a few ramekins, which were expensive. Ramekins do me no good in the winter, the others I can tap on the floor and get the ice out.
Ramekins are harder for the rabbits to turn over, making them good for putting grains in, but if you have more than a few rabbits, you have to go fishing for them at the back of the cage every time you feed.

The fixed ones are nice and stationary, but some are hard to get off again if you need to clean the grain dust off of them.

 

[BlueMoods]

My crocks are ceramic ones with a holder that attaches to the cage, they are meant for large birds like parrots and Mcaws but work great with rabbits. The holder keeps the crock in place and, you just lift them out to wash them. I prefer the ceramic since those are too heavy for the rabbits to lift or bump out of the holder when empty, they make stainless steel ones too, but those are light when empty and a playful rabbit can get them out of the holder.

 

[ramblingrabbit]

Hi! I'm new here and I want to make sure I have this natural feeding thing organized before I get the rabbits. I have been reading this forum but I do have lingering questions.

I'm planning on raising rabbits for meat, although the bucks and does I retain for breeding will hopefully also be pets. At the moment I'm planning on getting two proven does and one or two bucks. I'd like Silver Foxes or Satins. I'll start out feeding them the pellets they are used to and then transition. Eventually I plan to add in fresh cut grasses/weeds/plants and possibly sprout fodder.

This is what I've got figured out so far:

Free choice grass hay. We make our own and it's often a mix of red/white/alsac clover and tree-foil as well as grasses. Alfalfa doesn't grow around here. I could probably get a few bales from out of the area OR feed alfalfa cubes or alfalfa/timothy mix cubes (which I feed to the horses so it would be convenient).

How much hay cubes do you feed per bunny?

Grains: Barley and Oats, top dressed with BOSS and Flax "as needed" (How do you know when it is needed? How much of all these grains do you feed? Once a day? Twice?). Barley and Oats are my first choices as I can get them locally grown and organic. Wheat may also be an option. I read that too much BOSS is bad because it causes fat to accumulate internally.

Salt/Mineral block

Apple Cider Vinegar added to the watering system (how much? 1 or 2 TBSP/gallon?)

Any other needed supplements? I read on another post about something you should put in the water for pregnant and lactating does. I haven't been able to find it since…..

How do you know your rabbit is getting "enough" food? The breeder that I'm investigating for the Silver Foxes but I believe they are all show/pellet rabbits. I have no idea how they'll transition to a pellet free diet.

Feeders--- J feeders are mentioned frequently…. is there a better option? How do you feed your hay/cubes/grains? These "crocs" people mention….. small ramekins? Available at TSC?


Thanks for all your help. I'm really excited about this project and want to make sure it is done 'right.'

Welcome to the wonderful world of (naturally fed) rabbits!

Concerning how much to feed: I feel perfectly safe feeding as much green food (fresh or dried) as they can eat. Some say dried alfalfa by itself is rich enough to make a rabbit fat, but I don't know if that's true or not, and I feed a mixture of other things anyway. I limit amounts of alfalfa only because it's something I have to purchase, unlike the other greens which are free. Unlimited fresh greens or grass hay for sure won't make them fat or cause any other problems. (The only caveat being transitioning from large amounts of dried fodder to large amounts of fresh, wet fodder, which should be done slowly.)

I feed a mixture of dried alfalfa pellets and assorted fresh greenery I collect. Grass hay is fine for rabbits, but they also need plenty of legume fodder as well (alfalfa is common, but there are dozens of other possibilities), to obtain enough protein. Rabbits aren't really true grazing animals, especially not the domestic ones. All grass is too much roughage and not optimal protein. I kept some fryers in a grazing pen once and they still seemed pretty ravenous all the time, despite having more than enough grass to eat. I once read in an article on forage-based feeding that a useful guideline is seeing that at least 1/4 of the total forage is from legume plants to ensure adequate protein. So I generally go with that, and have done well so far. I don't believe it's a very exact science.

How much grain? I check their weight by feeling the backbones--too skinny and they get a little more daily, too fat and they get a little less. Pregnant does get a little extra, and nursing does get double rations, or as much as they will eat.

I put grains, pellets, etc. in small crocks, baking dishes, or similar, and fresh cut fodder goes on the wire floor (or sometimes gets bundled with a twist tie and stuck on a hook on the wall, if it's a type of greenery that can be hung up that way).

Can't speak to ACV. I haven't used it for anything, though I've heard people talk about it.

Good luck! ancake: