New to genetics, curious about litter

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Susie570

Susie570

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We had an accidental breeding between our two house rabbits. The doe is a harlequin Dutch, the buck (who was supposed to be a girl) is a (mini? dwarf? whatever) Lop. We're in the United States.

There is quite a bit of controversy regarding the 'gray' color of the buck. I would love for people to chime in on the buck's color. I was recently told that it appears we've gotten a few 'blue harlequins' in our litter. I understand that the colors of the kits can help determine the colors of the parents? Anyway, I'm sharing the link to my facebook album where there are pictures of the parents and the kits (now 8 days old - the colors are really starting to 'pop').

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.436910833123008.1073741828.100004122856703&type=1&l=97581259eb
 
The mother is not a Dutch but a vienna marked harlequin.

The father is a broken shaded agouti and possibly blue in which case his colour is called "squirrel"
 
The mother is not a Dutch?? o.0 She was given to us as a companion rabbit from a Dutch breeder who 'retired' her because, she said, she had two litters that didn't live. Fortunately, she seems to be doing great with this litter.

The father... well, I really need to get some better pictures of his details, but here's what I know about his coloring. His skin is light pink all over (as far as I can tell), even under the gray areas. The white hair on the nape of his neck has dark (smoky blackish) roots. The hair on his gray areas is dark at the bottom, growing gradually lighter up the hair shaft and ending with white (and sometimes black) tips. He has gray eyes. The insides of his ears are light colored. His toenails are all clear. There does seem to be a tan 'cast' to his fur - only the gray parts though - in certain lights, but it's very subtle.
 
I'd call it a dutch mark instead of a vienna mark. But that doe should not have been used to try to make purebred dutch rabbits. Anyone can call themselves a breeder...
 
Zass":wl1kywz8 said:
I'd call it a dutch mark instead of a vienna mark. But that doe should not have been used to try to make purebred dutch rabbits. Anyone can call themselves a breeder...
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's true, anyone can! Well, interesting.
She's just a mixed breed rabbit then? :shrug:
 
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I believe she is not Dutch as it is a recessive gene and yet several of the kits have small white marks commonly seen in Vienna carrier rabbits.

You also have several false Charlies which are more common in broken vienna marked kits.
 
Dood":3qnq2zjq said:
I believe she is not Dutch as it is a recessive gene and yet several of the kits have small white marks commonly seen in Vienna carrier rabbits.

You also have several false Charlies which are more common in broken vienna marked kits.
Click to expand...

So after reviewing it on the 'net a bit, one could expect to get BEW from the doe? If she's Vienna?

I'm a little confusing about the 'false charlie' thing... it means they are mostly white with just a few marks on them, right? I'm not sure whether this would be a desirable, or undesirable thing for a breeder, I guess it just depends on what they're trying to get?

It's likely that these will all be pet rabbits anyway, but I've been told that it looks like I have some (rare) blue harlequin patterns in the litter, so those might be interesting to a breeder seeking those genetics. It wouldn't take much to tempt me to keep one doe from the litter to breed back to her father, but I'm not sure what the best pick for that would be (again, I'm sure it just depends on what I'm trying to get, but my answer to that would be.... 'pretty babies') lol ;)
 
I wouldn't say Blue harlequins are rare, and most breeders desire purebred and pedigreed rabbits for their programs. These rabbits also have very minimal brindling and 50/50 is prefered.

I'm a little confusing about the 'false charlie' thing... it means they are mostly white with just a few marks on them, right
Click to expand...
Correct. It is undesirable to breeders as they cannot be shown, neither can rabbits with too little white - rabbits must be between 30% and 70% coloured and ideally 50% and have a perfect "butterfly nose"
 
Dood":39muixh7 said:
I wouldn't say Blue harlequins are rare, and most breeders desire purebred and pedigreed rabbits for their programs. These rabbits also have very minimal brindling and 50/50 is prefered.

I'm a little confusing about the 'false charlie' thing... it means they are mostly white with just a few marks on them, right
Click to expand...
Correct. It is undesirable to breeders as they cannot be shown, neither can rabbits with too little white - rabbits must be between 30% and 70% coloured and ideally 50% and have a perfect "butterfly nose"
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info. I'm just happy to have pretty babies :) The rest is more for curiosity. <br /><br /> __________ Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:02 pm __________ <br /><br /> Just wanted to say... updated pictures posted to my album yesterday. I'm posting progressive pictures of each kit as they grow. New pictures were taken yesterday at 11 days old. I checked the kits today and most of them have their eyes open now. :) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 97581259eb
 
Ok, I have to go find harlequin netherland dwarf to add to my breeding program. I can't resist the magpies and tri everyone has been posting.
 
Check this out... my 'solid black' kit is not... 'solid black'. She (appears to be a doe) has taken on a grayish tint to her coat and I've just discovered that the bottoms of her toes are light gray. Skin, inside ears, etc all still appear to be black. What color does that make her??

(oops, forgot pictures) They are 2 weeks old today

Kit1 - Day14b.jpgKit1 - Day14a.jpg
 
Seal? It would mean your dutch carries sable, himi, or rew though. If so she is definitely a cross with something. The buck already has sable if he's a shaded agouti. I'm not sure what else is black but not black.
 
I guess self chin could change a black. I've seen lighter feet in my blues and chocolates but never noticed it in my blacks.
 
Dood":28p1qt8i said:
Lighter coloured fur on feet is normal in self black rabbits

Self chinchilla that looks black = aa B_ cchd_ D_ Ee
Click to expand...

So... even though the little bun looks more of a dark sooty gray now, she's still black?? o.0
COLORS!!! GAH! lol
 
The undercoat on blacks is bluish grey. Sometimes kits look odd as they grow, or maybe there are different genes involves. :shrug:

I can't say what color your kit is, since there are a variety of things that can more or less look like blacks.

Test breeding usually helps the ID genotypes.
 

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