New kits--Need Answers ASAP!!

[Amy]

My doe, Daffodil had kits this morning, yay!!! This is our 1st and her 1st litter ever!
She had 11! But we lost 2. One she had eaten 2/3rd's of it, the other looked smooshed.....she had them in the front of the nestbox.
We brought them in and cleaned the soiled hay out. I moved them to the back of the box. I put them back out with her, she then pushed (I think) most of the hay towards the back where the kits were, she was kind of frantically eating tips of the hay that were sticking up. Then, she started digging next to the nestbox (back).
Here are my questions:
1. Is it safe to leave the kits with her? Since she ate one?
2. Is her behavior normal, pushing the hay towards the kits (probably just to add warmth, right?) Just want to make sure they won't suffocate.
3. I'm a little concerned the nestbox might be small. She's Amer.Chin. and weighed 12lbs. b/f pregnancy. The box dimensions are 10"x10"x15", I think. If I need to I could remove the top piece that covers the back part of the nest.
Please answer #1 ASAP, I'm supposed to go help out at the school in 30 min., but could stay if I need to.
Thanks!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The half eaten one was probably stuck. It is not uncommon to find a part of a kit or kits when they kindle. I have not had a doe cannibalize the litter after that.

 

[Amy]

Okay, will let her take care of them...I think she'll be great, she's a sweety pie!

 

[MamaMandy]

I think it's probably ok to leave them with her. The one she ate might have been stillborn or stuck like MSD said. She's trying to cover them by pushing the hay onto them. They won't suffocate.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

My doe, Daffodil had kits this morning, yay!!! This is our 1st and her 1st litter ever!
She had 11! But we lost 2. One she had eaten 2/3rd's of it, the other looked smooshed.....she had them in the front of the nestbox.
We brought them in and cleaned the soiled hay out. I moved them to the back of the box. I put them back out with her, she then pushed (I think) most of the hay towards the back where the kits were, she was kind of frantically eating tips of the hay that were sticking up. Then, she started digging next to the nestbox (back).
Here are my questions:
1. Is it safe to leave the kits with her? Since she ate one?The one she ate was likely already dead, they do that to clean up the nest.
2. Is her behavior normal, pushing the hay towards the kits (probably just to add warmth, right?) Just want to make sure they won't suffocate.Some first time does continue to try to "nest" after having the kits. I would take out the box and give it back to her later this evening, so she does not accidentally hurt them.
3. I'm a little concerned the nestbox might be small. She's Amer.Chin. and weighed 12lbs. b/f pregnancy. The box dimensions are 10"x10"x15", I think. If I need to I could remove the top piece that covers the back part of the nest. I would take the top off....My boxes are 10 x 10 x 19 for rabbits slightly smaller than that.
Please answer #1 ASAP, I'm supposed to go help out at the school in 30 min., but could stay if I need to.
Thanks!

 

[Secuono]

Unless you see her digging out and into the kits or going potty in the nest, it should be fine to leave them. But keep watch for any kits that start to fall behind.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

:congratulations: on your first litter!

I am not sure of the behavior of pushing the hay to the back of the nest where the kits are, but they will not suffocate. It sounds to me that she is still in the throes of her nest building instinct, given the scratching. If she continues the frantic behavior, it might be best to remove the kits from the box while she finishes "decorating", because she may inadvertently injure the kits.

The nest does sound a bit small- that is about the size I have for my Rex. I have a larger nest that I purchased used at a show- I will measure it when I go out to the BunnyBarn and post the dimensions later.

(I see my Sistah OAF had the same ideas, and beat me to the post!)

 

[OneAcreFarm]

:congratulations: on your first litter!

I am not sure of the behavior of pushing the hay to the back of the nest where the kits are, but they will not suffocate. It sounds to me that she is still in the throes of her nest building instinct, given the scratching. If she continues the frantic behavior, it might be best to remove the kits from the box while she finishes "decorating", because she may inadvertently injure the kits.

The nest does sound a bit small- that is about the size I have for my Rex. I have a larger nest that I purchased used at a show- I will measure it when I go out to the BunnyBarn and post the dimensions later.

(I see my Sistah OAF had the same ideas, and beat me to the post!)

I have the brain this morning....BWAH-HAH-HA! :twisted:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I have the brain this morning....BWAH-HAH-HA! :twisted:

Since I have been hogging it lately, I guess its only fair that you get to use it occasionally... :roll:

 

[Amy]

Thanks so much for the quick responses! I'm about to leave, but will be back in 1 1/2 hrs., so will check on things then and decide what to do. When is their first feeding after birth? It seems like I remember they don't usually feed right away, and then around dusk and dawn. So, if I have to bring them in just during the day they wouldn't miss a feeding...
Wow, I never would've guessed she'd have a litter of 11 the 1st time, still shocked by that!?

 

[Miss M]

Yeah, 11 is pretty amazing for a first-timer!

The first feeding is usually within 24 hours, but it isn't unusual for it to be a bit longer. You shouldn't have to keep them inside. Nine live baby bunnies will be able to keep quite warm, as long as they have a nice bunch of fur around them. If there isn't much fur there, you can supplement with dryer lint, teased cotton balls, feathers, even strips of soft cloth. You may even be able to pull some more fur from the doe's belly and dewlap. Wear sleeves!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

. You shouldn't have to keep them inside.

Miss M, I think she was more concerned about the doe's behavior...she is still scratching in and moving hay around in the nest with the kits in there....

 

[Miss M]

Miss M, I think she was more concerned about the doe's behavior...she is still scratching in and moving hay around in the nest with the kits in there....

Oh, right! Okay, yes, it would be good to take them in so she can settle down.

 

[avdpas77]

Yo have gotten good advice about your questions, but I would add something.

If you have "standard" nest boxes, the doe will often stand with her front feet in the nest box with her back feet outside to nurse. Putting the kits in the back of the nest box sounds good, but they really should be in the middle or front when they are new born. Remember, that does, especially first time does are creatures of instinct.

She didn't birth the does in back and she may be looking for them.... yeah, it should be obvious to her that they are in back but don't bet on it. If she is trying to keep the warm, she would likely be pulling more fur. If you are worried and especially if it is cold pull the nest box and take it inside, and bring it back tonight for 15 minutes and then again in the morning for 15 minutes. Some does nurse in the morning, some in the evening, and some do it both times. After a day or two you will be able to leave them.

When she nurses, and it is only for a few minutes, she needs those kits in the middle to front of the box for the first few days. They are creatures of instinct too, and they won't have much strength for the first few feedings... any who don't make it through the hay and lose the first feeding will probably not last. In a few days they will be much stronger and it won't matter where they are. If it were me, I would move them back up to where she birthed them.

Does will eat any dead kits for the first few days.

I think perhaps you are trying to do too much to help.

 

[Miss M]

When she nurses, and it is only for a few minutes, she needs those kits in the middle to front of the box for the first few days.

I had wondered about this... I have a couple of does that keep their babies in the VERY back of the nest box. But they're always well-fed and they grow quickly, so they get where they need to be, apparently. :shock:

 

[Donna]

I had a first time mom that did the same thing you described i moved them to the back just like you did i had to move them back to the front and she was fine quit digging she was also a large doe she only had nine.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I was going to mention that some of my does have their kits in the front or middle of the box, and I leave them be. But my boxes are open topped, so the doe could face either direction when feeding.

Does will eat any dead kits for the first few days.

In a couple of instances I have found partially eaten kits after the first day, but as a rule, mine don't eat them. I remove the dead myself.

 

[avdpas77]

After a few days, the kits will be strong and go where they want, which may be the back. By then the know they have to "scramble" when they feel mom getting in the box. The first few days, especially with a new doe are critical... and it is often best not to do anything unless they have them on the wire, or don't cover them with enough fur.

It is hard to leave them alone. Sometimes you will loose some, maybe all if the get cold. If they are in the box and covered with enough fur there is likely noting you could do.

If you have several does kindling there will usually be at least one that will pull enoug fur to cover Cincinnati. If so, starting when her kits are about 3 days old, pull a little at a time so they have about the same amount as another doe that is doing well and put it in a plastic bag. After about a week it will get too dirty with bedding and stuff, but even dirty fur is better than nothing. You will then have some to cover kits the first day or two for does that don't pull enough.

Another problem with new does sometimes, especially for the first day after they kindle, is that they will pull enough fur, but leave it in "tufts" instead of fluffing it. Instinct will kick in and they will almost always do it by the second day, but obviously that is too late with newborns. Always keep a bag of fur from those over achievers for times such as this.

Good luck. New does kindling is always stressful. We all face it, but helping too much is sometimes worse than no help at all. Providing they are delivered in the nest box and there is enough fur, all I do is make sure they are together (to keep warm) and that the first one or two didn't wander off to some remote area of the box to find their siblings before their sibling were even delivered.<br /><br />__________ Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:35 am __________<br /><br />Sorry about all the keyboarding errors... I am not much of a typist

 

[OneAcreFarm]

If you have "standard" nest boxes, the doe will often stand with her front feet in the nest box with her back feet outside to nurse. Putting the kits in the back of the nest box sounds good, but they really should be in the middle or front when they are new born. Remember, that does, especially first time does are creatures of instinct.

Not all does do this....my does climb completely into the box and nurse. The kits are almost always in the back of the nest.

 

[avdpas77]

True.

That is why I used the word "often" instead of the word "always"

Simply trying to be helpful. I think if one took my reply as a whole it could be.

There are different rabbits and different nest boxes, my reply was a general one.

I apologize, Amy. If the recent replies have been conflicting. I guess I should leave the answers to the pros.