Nervous about selling mutts... (Moral issue)

[Zass]

I've mentioned before that I'm working towards a specific set of colors in my mutt herd, but have had an AWFUL time with steel genetics.
I have a few does who are perfectly fine brood animals, a year or less old, just...steel carrying self colored and no longer useful as I move forward.

They worked well enough for what I needed them for, and to be honest it wasn't easy to produce them.
I could sell these nice girls as meat does. They have managed to make it past all of the things that I cull for. They are healthy, sweet tempered and good moms, or else I wouldn't hesitate to put them in the freezer. I know they could help feed someone's family, and be enjoyable to interact with while they are at it.

I have 3 self colored does who each carry a copy of steel.
2 lilac colored ones, and a blue. aa bb C_ dd EsE aa Bb C_ dd EsE

My conundrum is that I don't have the slightest idea how I could convince people that the pair are just lilac colored, and not Lilacs!!

Or that big blue isn't a blue New Zealand or a blue Silver Fox or an American (which she doesn't look anything like)

I would be horrified if someone bred the lilac colored mutts to a Lilac buck and tried to sell the babies as unpedigreed Lilacs!!! Likewise with the blue, I wouldn't want anyone messing up their blue NZ lines with the silvering gene that they all carry one copy of.

When I have sold mutts it's always been as mutts. I no longer tell buyers what breeds they are made of, because than people assume they are of that breed and not just a mutt!

But...it seems people feel OBLIGATED to call their rabbits by whatever breed that they most closely resemble.

Is there anyway around this...or would it be better to surrender them to freezer camp?

I don't suppose that it will be as much of a problem in the next generation. People will be less likely to mistake a big chestnut, opal, chocolate agouti, or lynx colored rabbit as any particular breed....right??
:clover:

 

[Ramjet]

"Meat Mutts For Sale"

Don't attach any breed name to them ..... but tell a potential buyer what their history is if they ask.

 

[akane]

Just not including a complete pedigree isn't good enough? I'd provide colors of ancestors if they want but nothing else. Most people who care about the progression of their breed will not add unpedigreed stock and most people will not buy partially pedigreed stock from people who don't care unless they are making meat mutts. The rest will have no trouble finding other things to buy and add to their lines anyway. You won't stop people from putting mutts in to their rabbits and calling them a breed. It's not my responsibility to make sure people research those down the line who have bought my culls. I leave it up to the ones buying from them to decide the quality and risk of full pedigree or not. I've actually made use of unpedigreed stock before though. There were some amchin x cinnamons I added to my american sables and was beginning to cull out the wrong colors because the sables have got crappy coats that aren't even rollback half the time while the amchins (which they came from) and crosses can give you a major edge in showing sables. Some judges regularly DQ entire tables of american sables for flyback coat. Why should someone not sell me amchin colored and coated animals just because the genetics aren't pure? I knew the risk of the unpedigreed rabbits even if they hadn't said they are cinnamon crosses.

 

[Dood]

You could try and be more selective about where you sell them and market them towards prepers, self-sufficency and sustainable agriculture types who won't care as much about them being purebreds or interested in selling any kits as such.

Unfortunately no matter how hard you try there will be some people who try and make a quick buck by selling mutts as purebreds :shrug:

Personally, after my own experiences with "purebred" AmChins who carry self, himilayan and non-extension :x and reading about members having similar experiences I feel that there are very few purebred rabbits left and don't beat myself up over the moral issue of selling mixed breeds that might be passed off as purebreds by their new owners.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

You can't hold yourself responsible for the honesty and morality of other people.

Rabbits are judged on phenotype not genotype anyway. If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck- it's a duck.

Most people who care about the progression of their breed will not add unpedigreed stock and most people will not buy partially pedigreed stock from people who don't care unless they are making meat mutts.

:yeahthat:

 

[Zass]

Too many people have also figured out that they can make a quick buck slapping a breed name and pedigree on anything.
I feel bad for many people who think they will automatically get something good because it's "pedigreed."
You know...I've culled a doe who's pedigree had registered ancestors, legs, and GC's all over it for being junk too.

I agree with Dood that there really isn't much purity left, leaving tons of inconsistency within breeds, pedigree or no pedigree, you have to really trust that a breeder culls carefully, and for the same things you want.

I was just thinking how awful it would be to contribute to the problem, because I know how upset I get when I pay for something (ESPECIALLY when I pay extra for a pedigreed animal) and it's NOT AS ADVERTISED! :lol:

 

[MaggieJ]

You can't hold yourself responsible for the honesty and morality of other people.

I agree. As long as you are completely honest about their mixed ancestry and sell them as mutt brood does, your job is done.

 

[JenerationX]

You can't hold yourself responsible for the honesty and morality of other people.

I agree. As long as you are completely honest about their mixed ancestry and sell them as mutt brood does, your job is done.

That's all you can do. You're honest about what you're selling, and then your part is done. Unless you have them spayed/neutered, you can't control what someone else does down the line.

 

[Rainey]

Just wanted to say that I'd hate to think anyone near me had a meat mutt line they'd been working on as you have with yours and then didn't offer breeding stock they didn't want to keep just for color issues because of such scruples. If there are folks near you wanting to get started raising their own meat, you could save them a lot of trouble. I can see your concern--it's ironic that some of us are wishing the sellers would give some basic information and you wishing the buyers would pay attention to what you want them to know. I wish I were near enough to take advantage of your dilemma.

 

[Zass]

That's all you can do. You're honest about what you're selling, and then your part is done. Unless you have them spayed/neutered, you can't control what someone else does down the line.

Yeah, and that's an issue for me too. I hate forcing control. :lol:

I have nothing against others doing it, they have their reasons, but it's not my style.

 

[JenerationX]

Yeah, and that's an issue for me too. I hate forcing control. :lol:

I have nothing against others doing it, they have their reasons, but it's not my style.

I've seen good arguments on both sides of that fence. I don't think I'd want the responsibility at all... so I'll probably never breed and sell anything.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

As long as you are honest about the rabbit and its background, you can't control what others do once they buy it and they're out of sight.

If it's a big concern, just tattoo "meat" in one ear and "mutt" in the other. That should pretty much tell the story and prevent them from selling that rabbit as something it isn't.

 

[JenerationX]

If it's a big concern, just tattoo "meat" in one ear and "mutt" in the other. That should pretty much tell the story and prevent them from selling that rabbit as something it isn't.

:lol:

ancake:

 

[Zass]

As long as you are honest about the rabbit and its background, you can't control what others do once they buy it and they're out of sight.

If it's a big concern, just tattoo "meat" in one ear and "mutt" in the other. That should pretty much tell the story and prevent them from selling that rabbit as something it isn't.

This is perfect!!!
It's exactly what I'm going to do, that way...no matter how many times they might change hands, new owners will not be able to get any pretentious ideas into their heads.
:lol:

I'll probably leave the "meat" part out though, and just put "Mutt" in their right ears.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

I would write 'mix breed' or 'mixed'. Just 'mutt' can come off as the name of the animal. Mixed is pretty clear cut imo.

But yes I'd leave out the meat.

 

[grumpy]

An ear tat would do the trick. No doubt about that.

 

[Prisma]

I wish the tattoo was a guarantee, but if some one is going to be sneaky they will. Like said can't control what others do. I've tattooed Rabbit and Soup in one ear of a rabbit and Pet ONLY in another to have both owners sell them as breeding stock not a month later o.o

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

Heres my thoughts...

If you go to an auction or animal swap and listen to people you can learn alot. Some people become known for ordering hatchery chicks and raising em a bit and tryin to turn em around older for alot more as homestead home incubated flock stock. Some people will scour craigslist and groups etc buying up all cheap/free animals and goibg and reselling them at auctions or at swaps as pure this or that and all these promises when they know nothing about the animals.
There was a young woman just older than me (now 22) a couple years ago i was doing some sellimg and trading with. After unknowingly getting in touch with a couple other people who turned out also dealt with her... we had been trading and buying rabbits amongst us with her as middleman changing up ages etc and promising breeds that were mutts and she was definitely told they were mutts and ear tattoo proves it was the same rabbit. Then an uncomfirmed story that she bought auction rabbits $2- $5 each and wrote out pedigrees herself madeup and resold them for $20+.

So in my opinion people will be people. If you dont want to chance it i would say just eat em. But people will be people.

__________ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:53 am __________

Personally i am contemplating for any i sell will have "cull" tat in the correct tat ear. Cant recall which is what at the moment. Then wrong ear will have number tat for my records. Somethin like that which if traced back to me would be that ya sold as cull not stock quality etc.

 

[Zass]

I avoid animal swaps and rabbits-at-auction like the plague. I keep hearing horror stories of the sneezy rabbits that are ALWAYS for sale at the local swaps...
:nightmare:

 

[Honorine]

I have some very interesting mutts here- one is an opal- other is a chestnut. They come from a friends meat program and he was mentored by one of my rabbit guru friends- so these girls have type out the wahoo- body wise they are all that and an order of fries. Genetically they are very interesting- they have Silver Fox and Satin behind them- the one girl threw the most beautiful Satinized Opal- too bad its not an accepted color. I got them as fosters- to raise extra kits in my Palomino program. Both of them carry non-extension- bred to my Lynx Palomino buck they can produce both 'golden' and 'lynx' kits- with their knock out type- I know that their 50% Pal kits would easily pass for and be compeitative as purebred Pals. I myself have no moral concerns about selling them as the mutts that they are- I am not responsible for what someone esle does with them once their out of my hands. I will be honest- if I chose to sell some of the Palomino looking ones at some point. Thats all I can do. If it makes you feel any better I've had Lilacs in the past, they have breed charateristics that are unique to them- besides just their color. Coat, head and ears, they have a certain look and size, it would not be so easy for someone to just breed your lilac does to a purebred Lilac buck and sell the offspring as pure, not to knowledgable people.