Need help on what to do with these 2 does and 6 kits!

[FourRingCircus]

OK, I had 2 does due yesterday. 1 started kindling yesterday morning with no nest. Had a second one that afternoon. We've been gone for about 24 hours. I had no idea what I was going to come home to (I took the other two kits with me and they kept each other warm enough and so far are still alive). I asked DH's cousin to check on them for me last night but he either ignored my message or didn't get it. I kept going through all the different scenarios and what I was going to do about them... Not at all prepared for what I did come home to :x .

2 does, nests made.

Doe #1 (the one with the two kindled yesterday) had 4 alive on the wire but chilled with blood all over them, 2 -4 dead in the box (one was twice the size of the others, squished, with I guess the placenta still attached? Not sure exactly how many more were dead since there were a couple... parts.

Doe #2 had one large one (similar in size to the one above) dead in the box and I think that was it - might have been one more (we just got back from a chaotic trip home from VA only to find more chaos so I can't quite remember if there was one more or not since I found a couple more the more I dug in each next box).

Doe #2 feel empty, but Doe #1 for sure has at least one more in her... I gave each one some lavender. I put the next box with all 6 live kits (the two from yesterday and the 4 from today) in with Doe #1. She hopped right in and let them nurse. The two wrinkly ones from yesterday have very large, full bellies now and the others seem to get a little as well (they were still a little chilled plus a day younger so not quite as active).

I have no idea what to do! This was strike 2 for each of them, but at this point I don't think I am going to wait around for strike three! I have 4 NZW does currently and would like to take it down to a breeding trio of each NZW and AM. Chins. - they are for sure going to be the two to go since the other two have raised successful litters with little to no intervention (one of which was a litter of 11!).

Sooo... I will be checking on them periodically. DH doesn't want me to mess with pulling the nest box out and taking care of them between feedings so he said to just leave them with #1 and let nature take it's course. What else should I be doing at this point?

 

[akane]

It sounds like they each had an oversized kit which can mess things up and even lead to their missing the next box with live ones. If I needed the does I'd give them another chance since the problem of oversized kits usually resolves with age and litters but if you don't need them you might as well concentrate on the ones who didn't start out having problems.

 

[macksmom98]

Its really a personal choice, to be made biased on the amount of time you can spend on them and how much help you want to give her. I personally would consider putting the one in with the others and letting that doe foster it, then try to rebreed the mom of that kit in a couple of days. You would only need to wait another 31 days or so for that one to have another try, unless you think she just needs to get a little bit older first. I had my first litter out of an 18 month doe, and even after hearing that older age usually causes problems I believed it helped out in our situation. She had a couple of stretched and large kits, but also had 5 live ones that she took EXTREMELY good care of. So I personally would give them both a 3rd shot at some point. I tend to intervene more often than not, because I do have the time to give it and don't feel I can not do something when I knowingly have the time. Each kit is worth $45 in our area, and I don't enjoy removing dead kits, so I am usually inclined to try to help. If I am traveling tho, that's a different story. I hope that I can plan accordingly but I also know that doesn't always happen. If you cant help them then I would also be at peace letting nature take its course. They should be capable of handing things on their own, or they will be in the process of learning how to do that. Best of luck-post some baby pics when you get a chance

 

[FourRingCircus]

It sounds like they each had an oversized kit which can mess things up and even lead to their missing the next box with live ones. If I needed the does I'd give them another chance since the problem of oversized kits usually resolves with age and litters but if you don't need them you might as well concentrate on the ones who didn't start out having problems.

The thing is, these are older, supposedly proven does :x .

-- Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:53 am --

Its really a personal choice, to be made biased on the amount of time you can spend on them and how much help you want to give her. I personally would consider putting the one in with the others and letting that doe foster it, then try to rebreed the mom of that kit in a couple of days.

Only one doe actually had any live kits at this point, unfortunately.

You would only need to wait another 31 days or so for that one to have another try, unless you think she just needs to get a little bit older first. I had my first litter out of an 18 month doe, and even after hearing that older age usually causes problems I believed it helped out in our situation. She had a couple of stretched and large kits, but also had 5 live ones that she took EXTREMELY good care of. So I personally would give them both a 3rd shot at some point.

These are supposed to be older, proven does. This is only their second litter with me - I got them in May so between the failed litters in June for each of them, and some heat sterility it hasn't been too successful. I did do a quick rebreeding after the June litters but each was a miss.

I tend to intervene more often than not, because I do have the time to give it and don't feel I can not do something when I knowingly have the time. Each kit is worth $45 in our area, and I don't enjoy removing dead kits, so I am usually inclined to try to help. If I am traveling tho, that's a different story. I hope that I can plan accordingly but I also know that doesn't always happen.

With life as it is, I don't have a huge amount of time. Yes, I stay at home, but we homeschool which takes up a decent chunk... not to mention two very strong willed younger children that still can't be left alone due to some anger issues that we are working on :bash: . Oh. and a potty training 2 year old. That adds to the adventure. DH doesn't mind me having the animals, but they aren't top priority for my time which is why we have chickens and rabbits - both are semi-hands off not requiring more than 30 minute to an hour a day for basic care. I try and tinker in the evenings or on the weekends if there are bigger projects, but bringing a hair filled nestbox into the house with kits in it isn't going to happen for DH (pretty sure at this point he's allergic to them :x ).

The trip was semi-impromptu, my dad picked up the boat for DH on Thursday in VA so we didn't even make that decision until 11 Thursday night. It wasn't ideal, but in the 5 minutes we planned it all out that night the kindling does didn't even register. :slap:

If you cant help them then I would also be at peace letting nature take its course. They should be capable of handing things on their own, or they will be in the process of learning how to do that. Best of luck-post some baby pics when you get a chance

-- Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:57 am --

Can large kits be a genetic issue? I'm hoping it's not the buck that's the issue since they each had one. That would not be good at all <br /><br /> -- Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:12 am -- <br /><br /> 6 fat kits, still alive this morning!

Didn't feel the obvious lump in her belly, hopefully she passed it and just ate it...

 

[TF3]

if mama is doing on with them-- let her keep them -- easier for you!

In my limited experience, it is no extra work to remove the nest and only return it for feeding.
I just pop it in with the doe at feeding time and then remove it before I leave. For the first couple nights I brig the box into the house, but once they have fur, they have been fine in the rabbitry.

My first doe is pretty perfect.
The rest have been less so and it is hard deciding how much time to give them!

 

[Zass]

If it was my herd, I'd eat the looser, let the other doe raise the litter, and eat the lot of them when they come of age.

Then, I'd raise some replacement does from the good girls who always preform well.

 

[ladysown]

it it where my herd my choice?

I would cull doe #2. Let doe 1 raise out the kits, and cull them out.

Does DO learn from each other as well as from experience.

What you want to do is promote good genetics and let the rest go.

my philosophy is simple.

If EVERYONE else is doing their job and one or two aren't... I cull those that aren't. Sometimes that's into pet homes, sometimes it's other breeder homes WITH FULL DISCLOSURE, sometimes it's just the rabbit doesn't like me or my set up and thrives in a new location...see it happen more than once. And if the doe is particularly irksome it goes into my freezer.

 

[FourRingCircus]

if mama is doing on with them-- let her keep them -- easier for you!

In my limited experience, it is no extra work to remove the nest and only return it for feeding.
I just pop it in with the doe at feeding time and then remove it before I leave. For the first couple nights I brig the box into the house, but once they have fur, they have been fine in the rabbitry.

My first doe is pretty perfect.
The rest have been less so and it is hard deciding how much time to give them!

I don't really have anywhere to put it other than in the house though... she's doing OK with them though. There's one or two piggies that are eating so much they look like little milk balloons! Their bellies are so full!