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SterlingSatin

SterlingSatin

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i have a doe that kindled yesterday morning, she is pretty sick and some of her kits are injured. she hasn't eaten or drank enough for 4 days now, and she hasn't eaten or drank at all since yesterday. she's very dehydrated and her spine sticks out visibly. she is still active, and very hormonal. she's usually a sweet doe but when i walk up to her cage she grunts and leaps into her nest box. then she hops out and she acts like she wants something, like she's begging for food. but she has hay, oats, veggies, 3 sources of water, all of which she is shunning. she succeeded in ripping apart two of her kits by hopping in and out of her nest box nervously, it was partly my fault, i should have made sure her tonails were shorter. one kit has a nasty 1" gash across his shoulders, i don't think he'll make it. the other one has a small gash on the underside of its neck. it was bleeding a lot earlier but its better now. i tried to treat both wounds but the skin is seperating from the muscle on the kit that had its shoulders ripped, i feel like the only way to fix it would be to try to stitch it up. it has ribbons of skin hanging off. really nasty. i feel really bad for it, but i don't think theres much i can do. i think i might be able to save the kit with the neck injury if he doesn't bleed out. i don't think she hit his jugular. needless to say i took her nestbox out and the kits are in my basement right now. i also moved the doe inside for monitoring, she's going downhill pretty fast. i'm going into emergency mode now, syringing her critical care and water. her milk appeears to be in and she has fed them at least once. any tips would be much appreciated.<br /><br />__________ Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:57 am __________<br /><br />i gave her a general once over, everything looks good from the outside. teeth fine, belly fine, NO sign of mastitis, no bleeding from anywhere. i'm stumped. offered her a tums, celery, parsley, an apple slice, and a carrot. she wouldn't touch any of it. she seems a little frantic, hopping back and forth. i will try to get some electrolytes ASAP to syringe into her. is there anythign more i can do for her or for the injured kits?
 
try raspberry leaves-- she may still have a kit in her--- massage that belly, in the proper direction see what you can really feel...
 
Super glue works well for wounds. They have a surgical version, but I believe SuperGlue was the original "tissue glue". I don't know if it will help the one with the gash on his shoulder, but the neck wound should close up.

As for the doe, the only thing I can think of that you haven't tried is pineapple. Probably your only option now is to syringe juice into her since she isn't eating.

I hope she gets better. You must be frantic with worry for her and her kits. ((Hugs!))
 
Yes, Super Glue was the original wound glue, before they developed some specifically for wound closure. It should work well. Do not get it on your fingers. You will glue yourself to the kit, or glue your fingers together.

Close the wound, apply the glue, hold the kit while the glue dries. (10-15 seconds to bond, then maybe a minute or two to be sure it is dry before you stick him in the hay and fur and siblings.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1xbOEm6j2w

There is another product called New Skin, which is basically the same thing, except that it also disinfects the wound.

The 3M Petcare(?) stuff is not a wound bonder, I don't think. Looks more like a spray-on bandaid.
 
I was thinking retained kit also... any sign of it? I've heard a few lavender buds will expel anything remaining in the uterus, but have never had occasion to try it.

If your weeds are up, try to find some Shepherd's Purse. It was used by old-time midwives when there were birthing complications and it is safe as a rabbit food in any case.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/shepherd.htm

You might also try some willow bark if she seems to be in pain. The restlessness makes me think she might be.
 
took her out after terry's suggestion. her whole body is tense and she's sensitive on her lower right side. tried massaging for a while, heard some stomach noises. i got some pineapple juice i'm about to syringe but i'm not sure that her condition has anythign to do with her GI tract. i can't get an raspberry leaves or sheperds purse but we might have some lavender bulbs. no willow trees either :( but thanks for all the tips everyone! you guys know so much more than i do. i'm going to go try to fix up the kits and syringe her now. i was prepared to lose the litter but i really hope i dont' lose the doe as well!
 
sorry, i saw that you said buds, and my brain knew that, but my fingers didn't :p but i might have lavender BUDS :) i just gave her a belly massage, the poor thing is so tender that every time i would touch her right side behind the rib cage she would gasp audibly. i eventually got her to relax so i could do a deep massage in that area but i really couldn't feel a retained kit. is it possible to like, rupture a falopian tube? then i syringed her 20 mL critical care and 10 mL pineapple juice. as soon as it hit her stomach i heard REALLY loud stomach gurgles. but she didnt' seem to mind being fed. right now she's running around in big circles on teh carpet while i'm typing. she seems very active, which is a good sign. she hasn't stopped running around for 15 minutes.

as for the kits, i cleaned the neck wound on one kit and hte shoulder wound on the other. then i used super glue on both. it seemed to work well on the kit with the neck wound, and then i did it to the other kit, and i swear the glue was dry, and i let him go, adn his ears folded back onto his shoulders and got stuck! poor thing! i felt so bad :( i peeled them back off while he was squealing, they didn't rip or anything. the super glue seemed to work well to close him up. strangely though, i put him back in with the other kits, and all of them started squealing. i don't know if it was the fumes from the glue or what but it was really strange. they calmed down eventually.
 
Running circles may be the best thing for her! Get that gut moving again, and make her thirsty. Maybe you should let her have another romp later, and trim her nails if you haven't already.

I'm glad you got the kits glued together again. You will need to keep an eye on them in case it opens back up. Too bad about the ears- you must have felt about 2" tall. :( No harm done, though, so stop feeling bad about it! :) That is strange that the other kits squealed- I wonder if they smelled the fear on him from his "trip to the ER"?

Sending good thoughts and support your way! Keep us posted on their progress.
 
the first thing i did when i saw she had sliced her kits was trim her nails :) she started nibbling on some greens from outside, i gave her some parsley and some lavender leaves and some strawberry leaves. she seemed to like the lavender. also got her some gatorade with lots of electrolytes. also let her nurse the kits, most of them got a bellyful. i'll let her do it again tomorrow morning. question though. do the kits need their mom to stimulate them to urinate? do i need to make them urinate or will they regulate themselves?
 
My EA doe that kindled yesterday started blowing her coat today, so I brought her inside to pluck and was hearing some serious belly rumbling too! It was surprising how loud it was. She also seemed more sensitive on her right side when I was plucking her. Then, she had a bit of bright red bloody discharge when she got upset about being laid on her side. So, I flipped her all the way over and tried feeling around on her tummy and thought I felt a bulge on her right side, so I massaged her belly, stroking towards her back end. She seemed to feel better after that, and when I fed 3.5 hours later, she was throwing her oats dish around.
 
The other kits may have started squealing and squirming because they may have been hungry, and thought that Mom was on the way with dinner!

Their names are now Cyano and Acrylate, right? Just kidding. :lol:

Hope it holds with all the jostling kits do in the nestbox.

We've actually been discussing elsewhere whether it is really the mother who is responsible for stimulating the kits to pee and poo, or whether the squirming of the kits is what does it. General knowledge says the mother stimulates them; however, we've all noticed how little time the mother stays with the kits. There doesn't seem to be time enough for her to groom and stimulate them all... she's in and out in just minutes, and the vast majority of that time is nursing.

So we've been speculating that it's actually the kits who stimulate each other, and that's why singletons have such trouble.
 
i haven't let the mom in their long enough to do anythign but nurse, adn even that is a little hard. i have to hold her over the NB the whole time. but most of the kits are getting a bellyful. both injured kits are still alive, the one with the shoulder injury is a little skinny but i let him nurse an extra long time. the wounds are still closed. mom ate her oats this morning! not much sign of drinking, but it looks like she might have lapped at teh pineapple juice adn the gatorade. hard to tell. but anyway, i'm encouraged. i gave her another belly massage, she's still tender in the same spot, and i let her run around. she was doing binkies all over the place. i think she's feeling better. she's still very skinny, i'll syringe more fluids into her later and let her run around a bit longer.
 
I just posted about a problem a lot like this. I think I'll go get some gatorade and try that this morning. The only difference is my doe doesn't seem to be in pain, just lethargic and she has a bit of green snot. Please don't be snuffles, please don't be snuffles. Glad your doe is feeling better.
 
So glad to hear your doe is getting better, SterlingSatin! So often it doesn't work out; it's so good to hear when things turn around. Hope she continues on the upswing!

Coating some oats with blackstrap molasses should further encourage her appetite, and will add some more nutrients to what she's getting. Maybe she'd nibble some pineapple or papaya.
 
I'm so glad to hear that your doe seems to be feeling better, and the kits are still alive. If you can get to a health food store, I would try to get some pediatric remedies for them. We have liquid echinacea that we use anytime we feel something coming on and it works great to boost the immune system. Vitamin C is also crucial to healing, so if you could find liquid vitamin C that would help also. I would also give them Vitamin E.

I have a book titled "How to Have a Healthier Dog" by Wendell O. Belfield, DVM and Martin Zucker, and he is a proponent of Vitamin C therapy. Dogs make their own Vitamin C, as do rabbits, but it can be readily depleted during times of stress. He recommends high doses of C pre and post surgically, and has treated a range of illnesses with it, including distemper. He also uses it to prevent hip displaysia in dogs, by giving the bitch C during pregnancy and lactation, and supplementing the pups during their growth. He believes displaysia is due to chronic sub-clinical scurvy.
 
can i give her a junior strength ibuprofen? i've heard of using baby advil but i don't have any. i have jr ibuprofen and jr motril. could either of those work? i want to see if her appetite comes back if she's not in so much pain. she still gasps when i touch her right side. i got some more critical care into her this morning, and a little gatorade via syringe. she seemed to drink a little gatorade after i put her back in the cage. i didn't see her drink but the water level went down. she is nibbling on lavender sprigs right now. pretty much the only thing i can get her to eat at the moment. i tried to give her some tums via different methods. i dissolved two in some gatorade and i gave one to her in her oats. i got a little of the gatorade/tums into her but she won't touch it in her oats. i would use liquid vitamin C but she's still not really drinking so i don't think that would help much. i'm going to go collect some various greens and veggies right now to see if she will eat any of it. i'm spending a ton of time and effort trying to keep her and her kits alive so hopefully she doesn't give up on me now
 
You shouldn't give animals ibuprofen. It can be highly toxic and should only be used with veterinary approval if you can't get or nothing else works. Tylenol can be ok sometimes but can be toxic to some animals as well like cats and is harder on the stomach so again you should check with a vet or other reliable source before using it. Advil is really the only approved, safe otc NSAID for animal use without a vet involved.
 

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