need advice on bopping

[grumpy]

Grumpy has pointed out before that cervical dislocation doesn't always stop the heart.

I have seen the heart still pumping when I gut rabbits- head, skin, and feet already removed- so they are definitely dead at that point. The heart just doesn't realize it yet.

Wouldn't that be a good thing since it will help pump out the remaining blood?

Yes, I think so. I'm sure that's why animals are bled out immediately after being killed- to take advantage of the last beats of the heart.

I've done the C-D method for several decades....Only recently have I
attempted the "Bop" method... I "am" impressed with the latter.
The C-D method disjoints and severs the brain's signals to the body
through the spinal cord. The brain cannot send to, nor receive messages
from, the body. In essence, complete paralysis.

Both methods, if done correctly DO NOT stop the heart muscle.
It continues, which is as it should be. It pumps reflexively for several moments.
Many, many, times its action is ongoing when I split the chest cavity
as a final step in the processing. This 'pulls' what blood is left in the
arterial network and allows it to evacuate the body.

What I find unsettling is the allowance of free-flowing blood from an animal
that is unrestrained, splashing wherever it may, until the death throes are over.
THAT....doesn't set well with me. From beginning to end, my hands are
controlling the animal's movements during its expiration. This is a pattern
I've come to use over the years because of "visitors" wanting to watch the
process. They don't become nearly as un-nerved if the animal "appears" to
be slipping quietly into death. Little do they know the amount of restraint
I'm using during those last few seconds. I've done this for so long, it's
second-nature with me now.

I'm calm, the animal 'appears' to be relatively calm, my visitors' are calm.

Grumpy.

 

[katiebear]

Glad you had success! I still can't picture what bopping is exactly. Someone mentioned a video, but I can only find cute little bunnies "bopping" around the gardens! :lol:

Bopping is striking the skull with enough force to knock out the animal....From what I was told here it does not kill only stun..but a couple I did ,didn't look alive at all. Lots of bleed out from nose..
Bopping in front of the ears is called the Swedish method I think it is the only dispatch method allowed in Sweden.This is what we are talking about here.
Bopping on the back or the skull is called bopping or whacking at least that's all I have ever heard it called. :?This is a favored method in the U.S. I think ...It is the only way I had heard of before I came to this site....It takes practice to do it correctly and efficiently..that is why I ask for advice.... I felt I needed to be more efficient.I have only done about 12 this way.so far. But I am getting better..
I like the bop method because I don't get the bruising that I get with cervical dislocation (breaking the neck).
Not the most pleasant thing I have ever done but it is fast and efficient, then suspend on a gambril cut the jugular bleed out and go from there.

 

[Dood]

Cervical dislocation should be described as "popping off the head" or "dislocating the skull from the first neck bone" and when done correctly you should not get any "bruised" meat around the shoulders.

Unfortunately many of the videos I see on the method are snapping the neck too low or worse they are crushing the neck bones

 

[grumpy]

Cervical dislocation should be described as "popping off the head" or "dislocating the skull from the first neck bone" and when done correctly you should not get any "bruised" meat around the shoulders.

Unfortunately many of the videos I see on the method are snapping the neck too low or worse they are crushing the neck bones

Agreed, Dood. My main intent with C-D is the separation of the C-1 vertebrae
from the base of the skull. Done properly, one can readily witness the
entire neck being attached to the shoulder's area when the skinning is
completed. It doesn't take an enormous amount of strength to do this.
But it must be done precisely to get the desired result.

To be completely honest, I've found myself "not-liking" any method..LOL.
It must be "old-age".. the hardening of my arteries has somehow softened
my heart. Nevertheless, it's a chore that must be done and I'll continue to
do so. I'll make it as quick and painless for the animal as I possibly can.

The "bop" method is just as quick, if done properly. And again, it doesn't
take that much power to accomplish one's goal. I think folks that are just
beginning are nervous to start with and the thought of "killing" something
goes against some, or maybe all, of their beliefs.

If one's not used to doing this deed, it takes a great amount of determination
and fortitude to carry it out. I commend them and assure them that they
will become more proficient as time passes.

The general consensus among my visitors a week or so ago was that they
preferred the C-D method over the "Bop" method. I'd imagine it was the
fact that they were more emotionally comfortable with the quick snap of
my wrist and the rabbit completely relaxing.

Grumpy

 

[Zinnia]

So, this is much like how we stun geese before we cut them and bleed them out. Skipping the stunning step in geese leads to tough meat (assuming from stress at killing).

Great information on this thread.

 

[Rainey]

Cervical dislocation should be described as "popping off the head" or "dislocating the skull from the first neck bone" and when done correctly you should not get any "bruised" meat around the shoulders.

Unfortunately many of the videos I see on the method are snapping the neck too low or worse they are crushing the neck bones

Are you saying that when cervical dislocation is done correctly there will be no bruising? We've used that method after bopping the first few. There is some bruising at the top edge of the carcase, just where the shoulder meets the neck, sometimes more and sometimes less that needs to be trimmed off. Is that to be expected or is there something we should be doing differently to eliminate it?

 

[Dood]

I never get any bruising in that area, not sure what I do differently :shrug:

I use a homemade rabbit wringer (the bar is about 1/4 diameter) and then hold them upside down by their hind feet until the heart stops and any blood is pooled under the chin and at the base of skull - never near the shoulder area

Maybe my rabbits have unusually long necks :mrgreen: but there should be enough room in most meat breeds (picture from : http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/0MLago ... itSkel.htm

I'll post pictures of the carcasses next time I process

 

[Celice]

here is a good vid of bopping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpD...outube.com/watch?v=dpDmHG_8pwE&has_verified=1

 

[katiebear]

I have watched this video long before my first processing session..I don't like the way he processes...Grumpys technique is much better and more sanitary..that being said..yes it is a good example of bopping behind the ears..I have been trying to perfect my bopping on the forehead..in front of the ears..
The Swedish method..maybe I can find a good video..
(Hint...any r.t.ers that use this technique)

 

[hoodat]

I prefer the pellet gun where the spine meets the skull. I have two pellet guns pumped up and ready in case I don't get a clean kill on the first shot.

 

[wamplercathy]

Has anyone given their rabbits camomile prior to dispatching them. :mrgreen: Just wondering if it might relax the rabbit? Or if my husband is right and I have gone insane. :x :lol:

 

[Zass]

Has anyone given their rabbits caramel prior to dispatching them. :mrgreen: Just wondering if it might relax the rabbit? Or if my husband is right and I have gone insane. :x :lol:

Generally, my buns are handled enough that they do not become stressed at dispatch time...so no relaxation necessary.

 

[bowbuild]

I have watched this video long before my first processing session..I don't like the way he processes...Grumpys technique is much better and more sanitary..that being said..yes it is a good example of bopping behind the ears..I have been trying to perfect my bopping on the forehead..in front of the ears..
The Swedish method..maybe I can find a good video..
(Hint...any r.t.ers that use this technique)

I am curious what you did not like about that video, I posted it a couple yrs back. Bopping is about accurate strikes.....if you have poor aim this is NOT the method to use.....I am lucky and have excellent aim , and very rarely do I miss. Bopping if done the way I demostrated should crush the skull, break the neck, and bleed the rabbit before a knife is ever put to the animal. I am NOT in favor of cervical neck breaking as I am NOT convinced the animal is truly dead. Maybe we should ask people like Christopher Reeves (when he was alive) whether or not being able to move equates to not being alive...just a thought. :? Many videos show people without the strength, or willingness to snap that neck with authority. (refering to cervical dispatch)

I also (maybe oddly) put myself in the rabbits place......how would "I" like to be dispatched if given the choice.....having my neck strectched to the point my neck snaps (keeping in mind I don't think it is instant death) or having someone put a rediculious broom handle half standing on the damn thing, while pulling on the rear legs....that to me it toture, and the vids on youtube are horrible! :evil: Both a bullet to the brain , or blunt force trauma to the brain will cause anything to "black out" and whether that animal is dead or not, it is not awake to know!

I appriciate justified criticism, so in the future If I decide to might make another video I can make adjustments......you don't learn unless you have feedback. Keep in mind that video was shot with no editing, in one take. My goal was to show you can dispatch rabbits and rapidly process them. I think the video is 5:56 in length......I could have shaved a lot of time off if I was not explaining why I was doing what I was doing.


Bowbuild

 

[katiebear]

I am curious what you did not like about that video

Hi, my issue was not at all with your dispatch method. I simply stated that I do not care for your processing method..IE-laying the rabbit down for butchering..I prefer to hang. And as I stated that is a very good example of the behind the ear bop method.
I apologize if I offended you that was not my intent.
This thread was an effort to get more information on the Swedish method of dispatch..To strike the animal on the forehead. I had only done a few this way and was looking for pointers. I am not using cervical dislocation as I do not have proper equipment to do so, and am also not convinced that this is the most humane dispatch.
I have however ordered the captive bolt gun and am convinced that that will be the way I will dispatch in the future.

 

[bowbuild]

Not offended at all.....We clearly disagree about hanging.(I don't hang deer when I field dress so why hang a 10lb rabbit?) I watch people on other videos mess around with trying to skin the animal while hanging, and personally think it is rather a clumbsy way of doing it. (cutting around the hocks while hung) The only time I even come close to hanging is on mature animals, and I use one hook suspended from a 2x4 to help remove the hide......as the hide, as I am sure you know, is much tougher to remove than on smaller animals. I can easily process 10-15 animals per hr without much sweat, but boy does it get old. Speed in dressing makes the daunting task much easier to tolerate, and to someone new I wanted them to see it could be done quickly, and humanely.

 

[katiebear]

I do agree that your method is fast..the only thing I was not in favor of was the guts being piled beside the dressed out carcass.
When I hang to skin I do not cut around the hock I cut from hock to hock, pull loose the skin and then pull upward to remove it from the hock area From there I insert my hand to pull upward just above the tail from there it is a simple pull downwards to the front feet where the skin will pull off. Slit along the "line" then the gutting.Using the tail like a pull tab everything to the stomach comes right out, a cut behind the stomach and everything to the diaphragm comes out. Pull up on diaphragm also removes fat deposits.Grab lungs pull out neck opening taking the wind pipe with it. everything goes straight down into the bucket. Hard for me to describe but if you watch grumpy s video ( in meat rabbits ) you will see the butcher method. This just works better for me.
I have seen the same videos as you and I do agree that most of them are awkward and kind of distasteful.
I do like what you do with the wetting down to cool, seems very logical to cool the carcass as quickly as possible,and to keep the fur under control...Do you think dunking would work instead of spraying? I process in my hubby's shop so no running water. I have been using a spray bottle but don't get the same effect as a hose,obviously..

 

[bowbuild]

Yes, just use a bucket. I use to kill 2, leave one in a bucket while dressing the other.....this is when I am where there is no running water.....man, is that a pain! The guts in the video were left of the table because I was going to show how to harvest the liver and kidneys, and then decided not too, bucket was a ways away....thus the guts..

 

[grumpy]

The video was produced with a distinct purpose in mind. That was to use
it as a "guide" in writing USDA protocol's for certification in a processing
plant. Apparently, it was very successful and sped up the processing
time considerably. And it met the sanitation requirements set forth by the
government.

....I'm not a rabbit, and a rabbit is not I....

I don't humanize any creature. To do so, creates emotional distress that's
difficult to deal with. It's not a job one looks forward to, but one that needs
to be done. I've got close to 40 head I need to get started on in a day or
so. It's surely not my favorite pastime.

I've got a "Dressed Rabbit 4-sale" sign in my front yard. LOL. You should
hear some of the remarks about "What are they dressed in, Grumpy?"

I'm thinkin' about changin' it to "Naked-Rabbits 4-sale" I wonder what
they'll say about that?? :x :x

Grumpy.

 

[bowbuild]

The video was produced with a distinct purpose in mind. That was to use
it as a "guide" in writing USDA protocol's for certification in a processing
plant. Apparently, it was very successful and sped up the processing
time considerably. And it met the sanitation requirements set forth by the
government.

....I'm not a rabbit, and a rabbit is not I....

I don't humanize any creature. To do so, creates emotional distress that's
difficult to deal with. It's not a job one looks forward to, but one that needs
to be done. I've got close to 40 head I need to get started on in a day or
so. It's surely not my favorite pastime.

I've got a "Dressed Rabbit 4-sale" sign in my front yard. LOL. You should
hear some of the remarks about "What are they dressed in, Grumpy?"

I'm thinkin' about changin' it to "Naked-Rabbits 4-sale" I wonder what
they'll say about that?? :x :x

Grumpy.

Well, then I suspect you do things on pure instinct, like a animal?? Of course we are animals.....But "WE " as humans can and do decern what we believe is humane........To consider sufferage one would have to compare to something else..........and since we are the top of the food chain we compare sufferage to what we ourselves could, or would tolerate.

Grumpy, I know as well as you as a life long hunter that animals (like big carnivores) do things to ungalates that we except as nature, but if "we" were to do the same as those carnivores, it would be deemed cruel, and unsporting to say the least.

I have put down more animals than I care to remember, including some of my own dogs due to situations beyond my control. Each animal that I take, either for food, or through the act of mercy deserves the respect that ONLY humans at the top of the food chain can afford these animals........So yes, I ALWAYS think.......What if I were this animal!


Bowbuild

 

[grumpy]

DO NOT.......parallel me with an animal. That is a flippant
remark that I don't appreciate. You'll gain no positives from me.