MYSTERY Standard Rex rabbit color

[Rancho Madonna]

Edited by MaggieJ to add the information that the member who posted this thread is long-time member, Caroline. She will be using her original name for future posts.

Welcome back, Caroline!

This little guy is a color that I have never seen in all the years that I have been breeding Standard Rex Rabbits.

I think he is a solid color but I am not sure

The Sire is broken amber (out of a black otter buck) with a known genotype of AatbbC_D_EeEnen

The dam is a fawn with an known genotype of AaBbC_ddee

the sire's has 3 litter mates that are Californian and one that is black otter.

One of the "Californian" siblings, that looks like a blue Californian, is actually a broken

the other kits in this little guy's litter are: amber, broken red, ermine, and chocolate otter
View attachment 1

Any guesses with their documentation will be gratefully appreciated

 

[SableSteel]

Do you have a picture of the ermine sibling? How "red" are its eyes?

I'd be curious to see what this one looked like as it grew up

Right now my two guesses are a chocolate sallander marten with a lot of smut/shading on the sides and a strong ruby cast to the eyes, or a non-extension martenized californian with nestbox frost bringing out those markings on the side.

 

[caroline]

the eyes on both the ermine and this "mystery" kit are definitely brown.
I did not notice a ruby cast but will look again tomorrow.
My initial guess was chocolate sallander
but sire has to be Aat so can't get an aa kit in this litter
I go for the martinized calofornian.
but there are not markings on the nose, ears or tail
I am keeping him cuz he intrigues me.
Not that I really have room for ANOTHER ODD buck

 

[SableSteel]

If they do look brown I think chocolate sallander marten would be the best guess. I can see some marten markings around the eye and jaw.

 

[caroline]

This little guy is a color that I have never seen in all the years that I have been breeding Standard Rex Rabbits.

I think he is a solid color but I am not sure

The Sire is broken amber (out of a black otter buck) with a known genotype of AatbbC_D_EeEnen

The dam is a fawn with an known genotype of AaBbC_ddee

the sire's has 3 litter mates that are Californian and one that is black otter.

One of the "Californian" siblings, that looks like a blue Californian, is actually a broken

the other kits in this little guy's litter are: amber, broken red, ermine, and chocolate otter

 

[ladysown]

he's rather cool looking, but colourwise... haven't a clue.

 

[Ducklove74]

Wow...he is cool! Like extremely diluted fawn coloring..serious lack of pigment but yet not quite albino. Have you created a new Rex color? As if their wonderful rainbow wasn't already enough to contend with I think he is beautiful but as far as what he would be called no idea.

 

[SoftPawsRabbitry]

This little guy is a color that I have never seen in all the years that I have been breeding Standard Rex Rabbits.

I think he is a solid color but I am not sure

The Sire is broken amber (out of a black otter buck) with a known genotype of AatbbC_D_EeEnen

The dam is a fawn with an known genotype of AaBbC_ddee

the sire's has 3 litter mates that are Californian and one that is black otter.

One of the "Californian" siblings, that looks like a blue Californian, is actually a broken

the other kits in this little guy's litter are: amber, broken red, ermine, and chocolate otter
View attachment 24028View attachment 24027

Would he be technically a frosted? I don't do rexes, I have Flemish, tan and champagne who all have to have specific colors lol, but that's a beautiful coat!

 

[Ducklove74]

Rexes only have certain recognized colors also but there are so many variations that come from this that are unrecognized colors...and frosted would be ermine genetically they are same in Rex rabbit called ermine not frosted. But his ticking is heavy and very unique for ermine rex.. they are normally just white without red or blue eyes .again very cool looking guy.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Looks like a sallander to me too, especially with those tort "racing stripes." Maybe even lilac sallander, looking at that pale color and those pale eyes. Based on the known genotypes of the parents, he could very well be homozygous for self, chinchilla (not known but not eliminated since both parents express the dominant C), and non-extension, which is what you'd need for the sallander, i.e. <aa -- cchd- -- ee>. Given the parents' geneotypes, he could also be homozygous for chocolate and/or dilute, i.e <aa bb cchd- -- ee> for chocolate sallander, or <aa bb cchd- ee> for lilac sallander.

 

[Nello'sHops&Lops]

Looks like a sallander to me too, especially with those tort "racing stripes." Maybe even lilac sallander, looking at that pale color and those pale eyes. Based on the known genotypes of the parents, he could very well be homozygous for self, chinchilla (not known but not eliminated since both parents express the dominant C), and non-extension, which is what you'd need for the sallander, i.e. <aa -- cchd- -- ee>. Given the parents' geneotypes, he could also be homozygous for chocolate and/or dilute, i.e <aa bb cchd- -- ee> for chocolate sallander, or <aa bb cchd- ee> for lilac sallander.

I agree it looks sallander but the bucks genotype is Aat (said op)

 

[Alaska Satin]

I agree it looks sallander but the bucks genotype is Aat (said op)

You're right, if the buck is <Aat> that would eliminate the possibility of sallander.

But what I just realized after looking at it again is the color of the rabbit's eyes: that's not sallander! There are only three ways I know to produce pink(ish) eyes: the first two are <ch> and <c>, which do not allow any color on the body, so although the sire might carry <cch> I think we can rule those out.

The other way to get funky almost-pink eyes is with lutino alleles <pp>. Lutino is not on the same gene as non-extension <e> but it has similar effects, blocking most eumelanin (black) production, even in the eyes. Unlike the <cch> and <c> alleles, <pp> blocks most black, but leaves some, so lutino rabbits can have pretty crazy-looking coat and eye colors. When lutino is paired with the genes for orange, you get a rabbit called a "shadow" that looks like the one above except that where the above rabbit has gray, it's pale cream/white, and where the above rabbit is white, you get orange, like this:

Image from What is Lutino?

So how about this: lutino non-extension chinchilla <A_B_cchd_D_eepp>? Since its sib was an ermine, the chance of having the chin in there seems good. And while it seems like having not just one but two genes blocking black (ee and pp) would make for a very white rabbit, it's the only way I can think of to get pink eyes on a non-himi or -REW. (I suppose you could also have a tan and/or chocolate; I don't think those genes would affect the phenotype very much if at all.)

There aren't a ton of lutinos around in the US, but I know mini rex and mini plush lop people have been working on them since at least the late 1990s-early 2020s. Orange Lutino and Agouti Lutino Netherland Dwarfs were just accepted by the ARBA as exhibition varieties in 2022.

When I responded originally I didn't notice it was posted in 2020! So getting information about test breeding from this cool rabbit seems like a slim chance...

 

[Nello'sHops&Lops]

You're right, if the buck is <Aat> that would eliminate the possibility of sallander.

But what I just realized after looking at it again is the color of the rabbit's eyes: that's not sallander! There are only three ways I know to produce pink(ish) eyes: the first two are <ch> and <c>, which do not allow any color on the body, so although the sire might carry <cch> I think we can rule those out.

The other way to get funky almost-pink eyes is with lutino alleles <pp>. Lutino is not on the same gene as non-extension <e> but it has similar effects, blocking most eumelanin (black) production, even in the eyes. Unlike the <cch> and <c> alleles, <pp> blocks most black, but leaves some, so lutino rabbits can have pretty crazy-looking coat and eye colors. When lutino is paired with the genes for orange, you get a rabbit called a "shadow" that looks like the one above except that where the above rabbit has gray, it's pale cream/white, and where the above rabbit is white, you get orange, like this:
View attachment 35113
Image from What is Lutino?

So how about this: lutino non-extension chinchilla <A_B_cchd_D_eepp>? Since its sib was an ermine, the chance of having the chin in there seems good. And while it seems like having not just one but two genes blocking black (ee and pp) would make for a very white rabbit, it's the only way I can think of to get pink eyes on a non-himi or -REW. (I suppose you could also have a tan and/or chocolate; I don't think those genes would affect the phenotype very much if at all.)

There aren't a ton of lutinos around in the US, but I know mini rex and mini plush lop people have been working on them since at least the late 1990s-early 2020s. Orange Lutino and Agouti Lutino Netherland Dwarfs were just accepted by the ARBA as exhibition varieties in 2022.

When I responded originally I didn't notice it was posted in 2020! So getting information about test breeding from this cool rabbit seems like a slim chance...

Wow that is exceptionally cool, thanks!!!