My new crazy colony

[Disney]

Hi,

Last week i made an enclosure of a square area in our backyard.

I wanted to start a colony with the 2 pregnant doe's i have, they lived separate with their older kits.
One is a 1 year old Bew with 5 kits, she has a headstrong personality, the other one is an older Rew doe, very shy.
But as soon as i put them all in the enclosure, the younger stronger doe was not going to tolerate her and chased her butt, the older doe is not a match for her so i decided to take her out.
The reason why i stopped bonding the doe's is because they're both pregnant and i didn't wanted to put too much pressure and stress on the Rew because she has an exceptional high risk of getting a miscarriage.
I figured i'd try again later when both kindled and raised their litters to 6 weeks old by adding the Rew and her kits back in the enclosure. I know it's a bad idea to bond 2 doe's in a non-neutral area, but there is no other way of getting these doe's together or is there?
They once shared a cage when the Bew was still a junior, i had to separate them because the Bew was going to be first time mom.

So then.. the Bew doe got the enclosure for herself and her 5 kits of 6 weeks old.
But from here it is going to get more complicated.. a few days later my local breeder offered me 3 doe's for free.
So i said yes and we put them in the enclosure with the Bew momma and her kits, she assured me it would be fine after a few chasing's.
Two of the new doe's being 9 weeks old (fullsibling to the Bew momma) and a 1 year old doe (halfsibling to the Bew).
The older doe had lived with me last year, actually she and the Bew were a bonded pair until i gave her back to the breeder.
So now she is an intruder in the Bew momma's home..

The Bew momma smelled them, her tail got up and she charged at them, she bit in their hinds and chased them off.
A few hours later they started to settle down, they knew the hiding spots to keep a low-profile.
Now a few days later, they are all good, The Bew mostly ignores them until they get very close to her, like she will nip them if they will sit in her face. She doesn't want them too close but they're fine if they keep a distance.
I'm happy that she accepts them now, you wouldn't expect a dominant pregnant doe to share her home with intruders.
But my question is.. will she ever start to like them and stop nipping?

I tried looking up on social colony behavior articles but i couldn't find any.. sadly there is no thread where there is a discussion on this or did i miss it?

Another question on nestboxes.. the Bew doe will be kindling in 10 days inside the hutch, she kindled her current litter there too and it's the only and best option for her.. but what if there is a second doe pregnant, where can she kindle without getting in the way of the Bew dominant doe? Do i put in a some sort of dog crate? I read on here that the dominant female might destroy the nest of a subordinate female but how can you tell?

When i first put the momma and kits in.

The 3 new doe's have arrived, the big orange VM inside the hutch, the harlequin VM on the tiles and the small Bew in front, they are all related to everyone.

The Bew momma feeding her kits

The 2 aunts sleeping with their 2 little cousins. Strangely the male kits would chase their big aunts on the first days, now they sleeping together.

The small vienna marked, she has the lowest rank of everyone so she very careful in case she might get chased off.

And the Rew ofcourse, she will be joining the others in the colony after kindling and raising the litter.

Sorry for the long story but i hope i made it up with the pictures

__________ Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:13 pm __________

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Very nice! I like how you used the extra pavers as "furniture"! They look like very happy bunnies.

 

[MaggieJ]

Looks as though it would be easy to clean... just sweep and then turn on the garden hose to wash away urine.

 

[Disney]

Thankyou MamaSheep, i'm doing my best

Indeed Maggie, it doesn't take me more than 20 minutes to get it all fresh and clean.
And the good thing is, they use the red plastic bottom thing as a toilet!
I occasionally see them jumping in there, peeing and jumping out again.. they don't prefer to pee outside. The droppings are scattered 'cause in the wild, they use droppings in front of a burrow entrance to scent-mark their home, so that's fine with me. )

If you look at the toilet before and after the arrival of the 3 doe's, you can see it got much dirtier in a few days.
I thought they would use it as a bedroom but no, it's a toilet haha.

 

[MaggieJ]

Quite convenient for you, I would say!

 

[Miss M]

What a marvelous setup! :razz:

 

[-HRanchito]

I love your new colony! Never done a colony, but I hope your does get cordial enough to tolerate eachother's kits

 

[Pink]

Very nice.

... Erm, is that pressure treated fencing I see?

Maybe you could get a canopy that covers the entire area. I believe I payed $160 for an all weather 10ft x 10ft at Canadian Tire. I would imagine those PVC sheets would fly all over the place, if the wind became strong enough.

 

[Disney]

Very nice.

... Erm, is that pressure treated fencing I see?

Yep, the left and backside are like that.

Maybe you could get a canopy that covers the entire area. I believe I payed $160 for an all weather 10ft x 10ft at Canadian Tire. I would imagine those PVC sheets would fly all over the place, if the wind became strong enough.

I thought of securing the sheets on top of the fence to make it look like a roof. But that didnt work since im totally useless as a handymen, so i figured id just put it on the hutch and cage to make a small shelter for them until someone helps me out with the roof thing. Yesterday the wind blasted through holland and luckily the sheets have hold their place. But you are right, this temporary setup needs more adjusting and a secured roof.

I see it as a temporary fix for a simple enclosure, hihi

 

[Secuono]

Keep up w/the poo sweeping! Smooshed poo won't be fun to clean up...
Never seen such big kits drinking! =D

 

[Saiyuri]

That is adorable ^^ definatly seem determined little guys ^^

 

[Disney]

Oke i think i have a problem..

The Bew in this story was pregnant, i put her in the hutch and closed the entrance with wire to separated her from the rest.
She was in there for 2 days untill she kindled 8 babies this morning. Then i took the wire out so she could get out of the hutch and the others could go inside and meet the babies.. well that didn't go very well. The Bew kept going back to the hutch and lunged at them. They were munching on the nesting straw so that made me mad too. I put te wire back so mom is separated from the rest again.

But how long do i leave her like this? Will she calm down in a few hours/days? I'm afraid that she claims the hutch as her own private space now.
Is there anything i can do?

They used to be like this, chilling inside the hutch, the hole on the right is the hutch entrance.

She is the big white on the right, the little ones are her kits from the second litter. The 2 young doe's are her little sisters and the big orange is her halfsibling. I hope i can get them back like this.

Yesyerday inside the hutch when she started making a nest.

__________ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:40 pm __________

Well it seems she had a change of heart!
I let her out after feeding time and she turned into her old relaxed self, she let the others come inside the hutch without any signs of anger so i guess it's all okay now?! I'm very happy!

The only thing that annoys me are the 8 week old kits, they go up to the nest and eat the straw right of it.. smh

I will update and post pics again soon!

 

[Secuono]

Do they have hay/straw elsewhere to eat??

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Oke i think i have a problem..

The Bew in this story was pregnant, i put her in the hutch and closed the entrance with wire to separated her from the rest.
She was in there for 2 days untill she kindled 8 babies this morning. Then i took the wire out so she could get out of the hutch and the others could go inside and meet the babies.. well that didn't go very well. The Bew kept going back to the hutch and lunged at them. They were munching on the nesting straw so that made me mad too. I put te wire back so mom is separated from the rest again.

But how long do i leave her like this? Will she calm down in a few hours/days? I'm afraid that she claims the hutch as her own private space now.
Is there anything i can do?

They used to be like this, chilling inside the hutch, the hole on the right is the hutch entrance.

She is the big white on the right, the little ones are her kits from the second litter. The 2 young doe's are her little sisters and the big orange is her halfsibling. I hope i can get them back like this.

Yesyerday inside the hutch when she started making a nest.

__________ Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:40 pm __________

Well it seems she had a change of heart!
I let her out after feeding time and she turned into her old relaxed self, she let the others come inside the hutch without any signs of anger so i guess it's all okay now?! I'm very happy!

The only thing that annoys me are the 8 week old kits, they go up to the nest and eat the straw right of it.. smh

I will update and post pics again soon!

If they are meant to use the hutch as a nesting area, then you need to provide another place for 'general congregating'.....no reason for all those other rabbits to be all up in the does nest area...

 

[Disney]

It's all good now, the nest is not bothered anymore. i tried putting the straw in a crate but that made a huge mess so i'm keeping it in the hutch only.
I will be getting a second hutch so there won't be anymore problems.

But something else happened today.. me and a friend were sitting by the enclosure with chairs and a table. Later we went inside and i forgot to take the table and chairs away. So when we came back, my heart literally dropped out of my chest.. my buck who roams free in the backyard, he got inside of the enclosure by jumping on the table to get over the fence. Now i'm afraid the Bew doe is going for a third round of pregnancy.. but i'm not letting it happen. I'm calling the vet tomorrow and will ask if an abortion shot can be done.

But first i'll have to make sure she is pregnant. He was roughly and hour with her so i'm sure it happened. If she shows any signs of grunting and rejecting the buck i will have to get her the shot. I just don't want to ruin this litter so i'm doing everything that i can for them.

I already made sure the buck can't jump over again with a sheet in front of the fence.

When something like this happens, it makes me give up on the whole rabbit thing.. the worrying and stress gives me such a hard time.
Just when i thought everything went well, something like this happens. My friends tried to comfort me and said that there is nothing i could do about it.. well yeah but that doesn't help much..

__________ Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:10 am __________

Well i put the buck next to her, i didn't let him mount her and she was basically rejected him..
Could she have rejected the buck yesterday too? Or is she rejecting him because she is pregnant again?
I think i'll have to wait it out for the next 2 weeks, by then i would be able to tell easily if she has gotten fatter or not.

I also called 2 vets, one of them says it's possible to give 2 shots with 24hours in between.. but she was vague on the succes rate and said that anything could happen because the rabbit gets injected with hormones. That doesn't sound good to me, so i'm not going with this one.

The other vet said that they normally don't use it on rabbits but she was going to discuss it with the savvy vet tonight and she will let me know what he has to tell about it. On another note she suggested to spay my doe.. i just thought about it for a moment but no, that's not what i want for her.

In the worst case i'll have to let her have these babies and ween the others with 4 weeks which is what bothers me the most.
This is so stressing..

 

[3mina]

Rabbits are designed to have litters close together, that's the reason for the cliche. My does tend to wean the kits at weeks themselves. Just a thought

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I wouldn't worry about it either, Disney. It is perfectly normal for does to get pregnant right away.

The gestation period and length between breeding receptivity in animals reflects the amount of time it takes their current young to reach an age where they can safely be weaned, and their heat cycles correspond to the times of year when food will be plentiful. For instance, cats have a gestation period of 60 to 67 days, which works out to about 9 weeks. They will deliver a litter, and within days go into heat again. By the time the next litter arrives, the kittens have been eating solid foods for a few weeks. The same is true of rabbits- they begin eating in the nest, often before their eyes are open, and by 4 weeks (or earlier) they can safely be weaned.

Just watch the condition of your doe, and maintain a good weight on her by supplementing if necessary. Her current litter of kits will be perfectly fine.

 

[skysthelimit]

Does will let bucks know when they are not ready to breed. If she let him breed her, I would not worry about it, unless of course you don't know what you are going to do with the extra babies. Several of us here breed our does back to back, with the does letting use know when they are not ready, by refusing the breeding. Kits are weaned at four weeks.

I would not mess with an abortion shot, it can screw up the reproductive system of a doe permanently. I recently had an ops litter of puppies, and was considering terminating the litter (wrong sire, bad timing), but from experience in the show world, I now people that have given mismating drugs, or terminated pregnancies or have given cheque drops to delay cycles, and they end up with girls that are sterile or that have weird cycles. i wouldn't give any hormone to any animal if not absolutely necessary.

Someone said it's not the pregnancy that's taxing, it's the nursing.

 

[Disney]

Thankyou for the encouraging replies, i really appreciate it.

It's not so much that i worry if the kits are gonna be okay after being weaned, they will eat solid food and pellets by then so they should be fine.

But what bothers me is kinda hard to explain.. i hope i can make this across.
Their adult health and condition. I may be wrong but i think early weaning will effect them in their growth rate, bone development, their teeth condition, and such.

I want them to get full care and nursing that is available. They will nurse for about 8 weeks or/and longer and that will consist in my eyes, a better rabbit. I would hate to see a kit who has to miss out on the extra nourishment. It makes me see that rabbit in a different way, like a poor half-baked runty rabbit who hasn't grown to is fullest potential and is lacking in body, health and condition.. even if the kits turn out big and strong, they might have been even bustier if they had gotten a full-care from momma.
I had high hopes for this litter and was leaning on the female kits to use them later as breeding stock and relieving their mother.
But now i will be stuck with incomplete lacking bunnies.. it just makes a huge difference in my eyes, which i can't really explain.

I know it sounds stupid but i'm awkward like that.. i think it has more to do with me being a perfectionist and wanting everything to be right and fabulous.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Well, it isn't a perfect solution, but you could buy goat milk formula in powder form, and sprinkle that on their pellets to supplement them.