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Okay Friends, another color question. This is the Sire to my Rex babies. His pedigree information states that he is a black/orange tricolor. Oranges make my head spin! Is this shade considered orange? It looks more brown to me.
Is Patterson really considered a b/o tri?
Thanks guys!
Yes, he's a black/orange tri, and a beautiful one at that!
Think of how a calico cat is often described as orange and black - the colors are pretty much the same as your rabbit's.
In rabbits (and many mammals), you can think of "orange" being to brown as "blue" is to gray. (And it's fun to think about the fact that orange/brown is created by yellow pigment.)
I suspect that the convention of calling it orange might come from the fact that there are lots of colors that could be called brown: chocolate, chestnut (which in other places/times is called "brown-gray"), orange, red, tortoise, and sable, among others. So instead of calling any one of them brown, they each get a discrete name.
Same with "blue" - gray could describe blue, smoke pearl, chinchilla, opal, squirrel, etc. So they each got a discrete name.
Any way you call it, Patterson is gorgeous.
 
Yes, he's a black/orange tri, and a beautiful one at that!
Think of how a calico cat is often described as orange and black - the colors are pretty much the same as your rabbit's.
In rabbits (and many mammals), you can think of "orange" being to brown as "blue" is to gray. (And it's fun to think about the fact that orange/brown is created by yellow pigment.)
I suspect that the convention of calling it orange might come from the fact that there are lots of colors that could be called brown: chocolate, chestnut (which in other places/times is called "brown-gray"), orange, red, tortoise, and sable, among others. So instead of calling any one of them brown, they each get a discrete name.
Same with "blue" - gray could describe blue, smoke pearl, chinchilla, opal, squirrel, etc. So they each got a discrete name.
Any way you call it, Patterson is gorgeous.
Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense! I showed my husband a picture of the new opal I am getting. He is like "opal?". Rabbit colors can be very confusing.
Thanks for the compliment. I have been blessed with some beautiful rabbits. I think he is gorgeous as well. And as most Rex are, super sweet.
 
Okay Friends, another color question. This is the Sire to my Rex babies. His pedigree information states that he is a black/orange tricolor. Oranges make my head spin! Is this shade considered orange? It looks more brown to me.
Is Patterson really considered a b/o tri?
Thanks guys!
So pretty!
 
The pigments in rabbit colors are forms of melanin. There are two main pigment producing cells. The dark colors are produced by eumelanin. This includes black, chocolate, lilac, or blue. The yellow shades are produced by pheomelanin. Orange is a name for the yellow shade. Depending on the breed, it could also be called 'fawn'. There are chemical switches that switch either the dark or yellow pigments on.

There are two ways for orange to show up in a rabbit's coat. This is where the E extension gene comes in. There are five options (called alleles) on this gene, in a series of reducing dominance. The most dominant is also very rare, dominant black E(D). So, we'll skip that. Next down is steel E(S), and then the normal color extension E that covers most of the 'normal' colors like castor agouti, black and chocolate self, tortoiseshell, etc. Castor and the other agouti colors have more than one color on the individual hairshaft, First, the dark eumelanin is turned on, and it appears at the tip. Then the dark is turned off while the yellow gets turned on, and the middle band is yellow/orange. Then it changes back again.

The last two alleles are the ones that include the orange shades. Harlequin/tricolor is coded e(j), because the color pattern was originally called 'Japanese'. It takes the banding of the agouti and instead puts the dark and yellow on separate patches of skin instead of bands on a single hairshaft. There are other modifying genes that affects how the colors are patterned, but that's another story, and not one well understood. A tricolor is just a broken harlequin, which breaks up the color pattern with patches of white.

The last and most recessive allele is a double copy of ee. It's called 'non-extension', and it turns on the yellow. In a non-agouti rabbit, the body will be yellow/orange, while the cooler points will still show the dark color. In an agouti rabbit, even the points will be orange.

Where you see variation is when other genes are involved. The D gene gives the normal 'dense' color when dominant, but the recessive version, called 'dilute', will reduce the intensity of the color. Breeds that call the normal yellow shade 'fawn', call the reduced color 'cream'. Breeds that call the normal color 'orange' call the reduced color 'fawn'. A bit confusing, but once you learn the terms for your breed, it's not an issue. On the other side, there is a reddish modifier called rufus. It darkens the shade, imagine the difference between a golden retriever orange and an Irish setter red. Rufus is not an on-or-off modifier, but rather a series of additive pluses. So you can have a little bit of a red tint or a deep New Zealand red shade.

The other place you see variation is in the self non-agouti tortoiseshell colors. While the body color has the yellow/orange pheomelanin, the points still show the dark colors. Those dark colors shade into the fawn, and tint it. And the dilute of lilac and blue tortoiseshell will reduce the orange to a straw colored beige.

So, that's why there is so much variation in the orange shades. After saying all that, I think your rabbit is definitely a black/orange. Looks like the orange has a bit of the rufus reddening, but it's lovely.
 
The pigments in rabbit colors are forms of melanin. There are two main pigment producing cells. The dark colors are produced by eumelanin. This includes black, chocolate, lilac, or blue. The yellow shades are produced by pheomelanin. Orange is a name for the yellow shade. Depending on the breed, it could also be called 'fawn'. There are chemical switches that switch either the dark or yellow pigments on.

There are two ways for orange to show up in a rabbit's coat. This is where the E extension gene comes in. There are five options (called alleles) on this gene, in a series of reducing dominance. The most dominant is also very rare, dominant black E(D). So, we'll skip that. Next down is steel E(S), and then the normal color extension E that covers most of the 'normal' colors like castor agouti, black and chocolate self, tortoiseshell, etc. Castor and the other agouti colors have more than one color on the individual hairshaft, First, the dark eumelanin is turned on, and it appears at the tip. Then the dark is turned off while the yellow gets turned on, and the middle band is yellow/orange. Then it changes back again.

The last two alleles are the ones that include the orange shades. Harlequin/tricolor is coded e(j), because the color pattern was originally called 'Japanese'. It takes the banding of the agouti and instead puts the dark and yellow on separate patches of skin instead of bands on a single hairshaft. There are other modifying genes that affects how the colors are patterned, but that's another story, and not one well understood. A tricolor is just a broken harlequin, which breaks up the color pattern with patches of white.

The last and most recessive allele is a double copy of ee. It's called 'non-extension', and it turns on the yellow. In a non-agouti rabbit, the body will be yellow/orange, while the cooler points will still show the dark color. In an agouti rabbit, even the points will be orange.

Where you see variation is when other genes are involved. The D gene gives the normal 'dense' color when dominant, but the recessive version, called 'dilute', will reduce the intensity of the color. Breeds that call the normal yellow shade 'fawn', call the reduced color 'cream'. Breeds that call the normal color 'orange' call the reduced color 'fawn'. A bit confusing, but once you learn the terms for your breed, it's not an issue. On the other side, there is a reddish modifier called rufus. It darkens the shade, imagine the difference between a golden retriever orange and an Irish setter red. Rufus is not an on-or-off modifier, but rather a series of additive pluses. So you can have a little bit of a red tint or a deep New Zealand red shade.

The other place you see variation is in the self non-agouti tortoiseshell colors. While the body color has the yellow/orange pheomelanin, the points still show the dark colors. Those dark colors shade into the fawn, and tint it. And the dilute of lilac and blue tortoiseshell will reduce the orange to a straw colored beige.

So, that's why there is so much variation in the orange shades. After saying all that, I think your rabbit is definitely a black/orange. Looks like the orange has a bit of the rufus reddening, but it's lovely.
Once again, thank you for your in depth reply. I really appreciate it. I love being educated. Now to just retain it. LOL
I agree on the bit of rufus. His color just seems too deep for just orange.
So far, I have got harlequin and tort kits from this buck, plus lots of other nice colors.
 
The pigments in rabbit colors are forms of melanin. There are two main pigment producing cells. The dark colors are produced by eumelanin. This includes black, chocolate, lilac, or blue. The yellow shades are produced by pheomelanin. Orange is a name for the yellow shade. Depending on the breed, it could also be called 'fawn'. There are chemical switches that switch either the dark or yellow pigments on.

There are two ways for orange to show up in a rabbit's coat. This is where the E extension gene comes in. There are five options (called alleles) on this gene, in a series of reducing dominance. The most dominant is also very rare, dominant black E(D). So, we'll skip that. Next down is steel E(S), and then the normal color extension E that covers most of the 'normal' colors like castor agouti, black and chocolate self, tortoiseshell, etc. Castor and the other agouti colors have more than one color on the individual hairshaft, First, the dark eumelanin is turned on, and it appears at the tip. Then the dark is turned off while the yellow gets turned on, and the middle band is yellow/orange. Then it changes back again.

The last two alleles are the ones that include the orange shades. Harlequin/tricolor is coded e(j), because the color pattern was originally called 'Japanese'. It takes the banding of the agouti and instead puts the dark and yellow on separate patches of skin instead of bands on a single hairshaft. There are other modifying genes that affects how the colors are patterned, but that's another story, and not one well understood. A tricolor is just a broken harlequin, which breaks up the color pattern with patches of white.

The last and most recessive allele is a double copy of ee. It's called 'non-extension', and it turns on the yellow. In a non-agouti rabbit, the body will be yellow/orange, while the cooler points will still show the dark color. In an agouti rabbit, even the points will be orange.

Where you see variation is when other genes are involved. The D gene gives the normal 'dense' color when dominant, but the recessive version, called 'dilute', will reduce the intensity of the color. Breeds that call the normal yellow shade 'fawn', call the reduced color 'cream'. Breeds that call the normal color 'orange' call the reduced color 'fawn'. A bit confusing, but once you learn the terms for your breed, it's not an issue. On the other side, there is a reddish modifier called rufus. It darkens the shade, imagine the difference between a golden retriever orange and an Irish setter red. Rufus is not an on-or-off modifier, but rather a series of additive pluses. So you can have a little bit of a red tint or a deep New Zealand red shade.

The other place you see variation is in the self non-agouti tortoiseshell colors. While the body color has the yellow/orange pheomelanin, the points still show the dark colors. Those dark colors shade into the fawn, and tint it. And the dilute of lilac and blue tortoiseshell will reduce the orange to a straw colored beige.

So, that's why there is so much variation in the orange shades. After saying all that, I think your rabbit is definitely a black/orange. Looks like the orange has a bit of the rufus reddening, but it's lovely.
Outstanding explanation of a pretty complicated subject!
 
I hope you aren't too tired of my color questions yet.
I have been able to figure out a lot of my rabbits colors thanks to all of the help you all have offered. Thanks!
This little guy is a mix breed. 1/2 FG, 1/4 Harlequin & 1/4 NZ.
I thought opal when he was small but now he seems to be getting darker.
He is about 4 weeks old in the first picture and other pictures are current at 9 weeks.

I appreciate your input. Thank you!
20221210_122243.jpg20230103_151758.jpg20230103_151704.jpg20230103_151718.jpg
 
I hope you aren't too tired of my color questions yet.
I have been able to figure out a lot of my rabbits colors thanks to all of the help you all have offered. Thanks!
This little guy is a mix breed. 1/2 FG, 1/4 Harlequin & 1/4 NZ.
I thought opal when he was small but now he seems to be getting darker.
He is about 4 weeks old in the first picture and other pictures are current at 9 weeks.

I appreciate your input. Thank you!
View attachment 33481View attachment 33482View attachment 33483View attachment 33484

Well that is an interesting color! I've never had an opal looked quite so ticked in its surface color - yours almost looks more like gold-tipped steel on the surface. It does look more like an opal at 9 weeks than it did at 4 weeks - opals have a very distinct blue look.

It's hard to tell from the angle of the photos, but I don't see the blue lacing an opal should have on its ears. But it does have that orange middle band, and agouti markings. According to breed standards, opal isn't supposed to have white undercolor; it's supposed to be slate, but that doesn't mean all rabbits follow the rules. :)

Lynx, on the other hand, has white/off-white undercolor. Lynx is what I probably would have called your rabbit at 4 weeks. However at 9 weeks he looks way too blue and his tan looks too color-dense to be lynx.

A good way to tell the difference in base color on agoutis is to look at the ear lacing. That usually clears it up, unless a blue is an extremely washed out blue.

The fact that harlequin is in the mix makes me think that's what's doing the weird things to the color, but as far as calling it a name, opal could be a reasonable way to go; it's just not a textbook example of an opal. And there are always those colors called "unrecognized genotype." :) Maybe @judymac will have a better idea.

What colors were the parents?

For reference, below is an opal mini rex. The coat type changes the look a bit, but opals aren't accepted in Satin so I don't have a good photo of opal in a longer coat type.
IMG_0639.JPG
Thanks for the fun puzzle. You've probably guessed that several of us can't get enough of color questions. :)
 
Well that is an interesting color! I've never had an opal looked quite so ticked in its surface color - yours almost looks more like gold-tipped steel on the surface. It does look more like an opal at 9 weeks than it did at 4 weeks - opals have a very distinct blue look.

It's hard to tell from the angle of the photos, but I don't see the blue lacing an opal should have on its ears. But it does have that orange middle band, and agouti markings. According to breed standards, opal isn't supposed to have white undercolor; it's supposed to be slate, but that doesn't mean all rabbits follow the rules. :)

Lynx, on the other hand, has white/off-white undercolor. Lynx is what I probably would have called your rabbit at 4 weeks. However at 9 weeks he looks way too blue and his tan looks too color-dense to be lynx.

A good way to tell the difference in base color on agoutis is to look at the ear lacing. That usually clears it up, unless a blue is an extremely washed out blue.

The fact that harlequin is in the mix makes me think that's what's doing the weird things to the color, but as far as calling it a name, opal could be a reasonable way to go; it's just not a textbook example of an opal. And there are always those colors called "unrecognized genotype." :) Maybe @judymac will have a better idea.

What colors were the parents?

For reference, below is an opal mini rex. The coat type changes the look a bit, but opals aren't accepted in Satin so I don't have a good photo of opal in a longer coat type.
View attachment 33485
Thanks for the fun puzzle. You've probably guessed that several of us can't get enough of color questions. :)
Dam, Sire, litter mates, Clover (buck in question)
The last picture shows his ears better but it was dusk and a bit dark.
He was a satiny gray when little. Dam`s parents were Sandy and broken blue.
 

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Well that is an interesting color! I've never had an opal looked quite so ticked in its surface color - yours almost looks more like gold-tipped steel on the surface. It does look more like an opal at 9 weeks than it did at 4 weeks - opals have a very distinct blue look.

It's hard to tell from the angle of the photos, but I don't see the blue lacing an opal should have on its ears. But it does have that orange middle band, and agouti markings. According to breed standards, opal isn't supposed to have white undercolor; it's supposed to be slate, but that doesn't mean all rabbits follow the rules. :)

Lynx, on the other hand, has white/off-white undercolor. Lynx is what I probably would have called your rabbit at 4 weeks. However at 9 weeks he looks way too blue and his tan looks too color-dense to be lynx.

For reference, below is an opal mini rex. The coat type changes the look a bit, but opals aren't accepted in Satin so I don't have a good photo of opal in a longer coat type.
View attachment 33485
:)
My opal.
 

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Dam, Sire, litter mates, Clover (buck in question)
The last picture shows his ears better but it was dusk and a bit dark.
He was a satiny gray when little. Dam`s parents were Sandy and broken blue.
All more evidence for being an opal. :)

His ears do look blue-laced, and when he was in the nest, he looked like an opal usually does - it's hard to tell opals from blue otters at that stage, they both look blue with tan/agouti markings. And with both agouti and blue in his background, it makes sense.

Looking again at the ticking, I think it's just a result of the normal coat type. Both rex and Satin coats change a color's look substantially, and those are what I'm used to seeing. His undercolor is still off, but that doesn't mean he's not an opal.
 
All more evidence for being an opal. :)

His ears do look blue-laced, and when he was in the nest, he looked like an opal usually does - it's hard to tell opals from blue otters at that stage, they both look blue with tan/agouti markings. And with both agouti and blue in his background, it makes sense.

Looking again at the ticking, I think it's just a result of the normal coat type. Both rex and Satin coats change a color's look substantially, and those are what I'm used to seeing. His undercolor is still off, but that doesn't mean he's not an opal.
It was a very interesting litter. His sister Sassy is the black otter.
I know my FG/Harlequin buck has a lot of diversity including REW.
 

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Interesting. He doesn't seem to have the blue lacing on his ears. Honestly I'd be confused about what to call that rabbit, at least from this one photo. He seems to have some patchiness...is he the one with harlequin in the background?
? my opal ?
I was just showing you the opal Rex doe I have. No relation. Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse it more. Haha. It's not a very good picture of her.
 
? my opal ?
I was just showing you the opal Rex doe I have. No relation. Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse it more. Haha. It's not a very good picture of her.
Right, you posted the photo of the chinchilla sire.
But the opal (doe) looks unusual in that photo. Any harlequin in her background?
It was a very interesting litter. His sister Sassy is the black otter.
I know my FG/Harlequin buck has a lot of diversity including REW.
That otter has fabulous color!!! :love:
 

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