Moral Dilemma

[wamplercathy]

We have some members of the family that have autism and other special needs. Yall are doing just fine with him, from what I read here on RT. :lovers: Love him, hug him and always let him know he's perfect the way he is. And the rest will be cake.

 

[Miss M]

he might possibly be on the autism scale... I'm not sure. He's very bright in many ways and kind of... awkward in other ways. Sometimes we tend to forget how young he still is and expect things from him that one would expect from a much older child, but that's partly because he behaves like a much older child (until things don't go his way, then he acts like a 2yr old) I don't know, he's confusing. lol

This is both of my kids right there. They have Asperger's Syndrome (also sometimes called High Functioning Autism, or Pervasive Developmental Disorder). To this day, we will forget they are Aspies, and we'll expect maturity from them that they don't have... because they are very mature in some ways, but not all.

Bunny-Wan Kenobi wasn't actually tested, because his insurance stopped covering the testing one week before his test. We couldn't afford the test ourselves. Galadriel had been tested already and was diagnosed. We already knew what the doctor would have said about him anyway at this point, though. When my uncle brought home his pediatric nurse date, she had seen Bunny-Wan Kenobi all of about five minutes when she asked, "He's got Asperger's, doesn't he?" That confirmed it, as far as we were concerned.

I understand the trepidation about "labeling" him with a disorder, but we found that it helped tremendously knowing 1) that we weren't terrible parents, and 2) that there was an explanation and lots of special recommendations the doctor could make to help us figure out the best way to teach Galadriel. We were just floundering before that, wondering what we were doing wrong. The testing made a huge difference.

Meanwhile, my nephew (same age as Galadriel) was struggling so badly in school. His mom wanted to have him tested, but his dad didn't, because he didn't want him to be "labeled". I guess he thought it was like having a big neon sticker on his son's head that said "defective". Bottom line... he almost stopped learning once school got to be mostly textbook reading based. When he was old enough to choose for himself to go stay with his mom, he ended up in a special school to figure out his learning disability and finally teach him how to read (at 16. Yeah.). Then he had to work his tail off in special classes to catch up. I felt so sorry for him.

I guess the only issue I have with 'labels' is that he would either think that means there is something 'wrong' with him, or that he would think he could use it as an excuse for poor behavior.

We made it crystal clear from the beginning that Galadriel was never to use her diagnosis as an excuse. She tried it once. It didn't go well. My husband (who recognized his own Asperger's when reading about it because of Galadriel) is even more pointed about it than I am.

About him thinking there's something wrong with him... he's going to realize at some point that he is different anyway. He needs you to work with him to help him realize that it's okay, and learn to overcome his Asperger's or however he ends up testing. It'll be difficult, but it can be done.

 

[Susie570]

Thanks, Miss M.

I think the 'bad parents' thing really settles home with me because in spite of working so hard teach him discipline and respect (and he is, actually, very well behaved most of the time), when things go sour he gets really.... I don't even know how to describe it. Dark. He exaggerates the whole situation, blows it out of proportion, tries to force me to be violent to him. Literally. He will say "ok, then just smack me in the face! Smack me in the face!!! SMACK ME IN THE FACE!!!!" And then start hitting himself in the face!!! I mean, Wtf???? He'll do it hard enough to make his nose bleed (his nose bleeds very easily though... mine did too when I was a kid). I usually just walk away when he starts that crap. I don't know what to do about it. I'm afraid he's going to actually hurt himself one of these days.

I've tried talking to him when he gets in that mode, saying thing like "you're frustrated, aren't you?" And he just shuts me out. This is one reason I want to get him evaluated. I don't even know if that sort of thing is spectrum related our something else entirely, but it's very upsetting. :/

 

[TerriG]

My 11 year old son is high functioning autistic. I was worried about how he would handle raising meat rabbits. He was watching some shows with me on how our commercial meat is raised. I wasn't sure how he was going to respond. He looked at me after watching them and told me that what we watched was NOT right! That we don't treat our rabbits that way and that he understood more of why we do it. He told me no animal should be treated like he saw in the movies. He says they should be treated like we do. It was very reassuring to me to see him react that way.

 

[Miss M]

Before you read, I want y'all to know that I posted this only after having it reviewed and okayed by both of my kids. I even offered to send it as a PM only to Susie, but they were fine with it appearing here.

I've tried talking to him when he gets in that mode, saying thing like "you're frustrated, aren't you?" And he just shuts me out. This is one reason I want to get him evaluated. I don't even know if that sort of thing is spectrum related our something else entirely, but it's very upsetting. :/

Yes, it can be spectrum related. It's an odd thing, and it's called a "meltdown". The child forgets reason, and the more you try to reach them, the worse they lose it. Your son's seem to go a bit in the defiant direction, while ours were more in the panic direction.

I found that the only way to handle it was to take them to their room, tell them calmly and gently that they were to stay in there until they were calm again, and then they could come out. I turned around and closed the door. As they got older (teens), it got to where I could catch them before they got very far into it, and say "stop". Sometimes, I had to say it several times, and tell them to calm down. I could reason with them, and they could pull out of it. But not at the younger ages.

We've always made it clear that they must overcome these things, that it will be hard, and that we will be right here to help them learn how.

Galadriel is the more autistic of the two, yet most people have no idea she's autistic until they spend a significant amount of time with her. They weren't there when she was a small child, rocking back and forth, withdrawing into herself, not making eye contact, talking with her mouth closed if she responded to you at all, and so many more very typical autistic behaviors. They weren't there waving a hand in front of her face or shaking her, trying to bring her back to reality, not letting her lock herself away in her little autistic world. (I found out only much later that this was how Temple Grandin's parents helped her.) They see what she's like now, and they doubt my sanity when I say she's mildly autistic. That's how far she has come, and this is the hope in front of your son.

It's funny... Galadriel loses patience with Bunny-Wan Kenobi sometimes. I smile and tell her, "Sweetie, what you're seeing in him now... that was you five years ago (they're five years apart). We were patient with you while we helped you grow past that, now he needs you to be patient with him. He'll get past it, too."

That's what I'm hoping for because most of the clever, thoughtful, progressive and sometimes old fashioned techniques we have tried don't seem to work. Or at least, they don't work 'as expected'. I don't know how many times his reaction to some form of discipline just leaves me with my mouth hanging open.

It was the same way for us.

Can kids usually 'get' sarcasm by this age? We're always like "Come on!!! Don't be so serious! You know we're just kidding!!". Ugh. Well, he's gotten a little better about it though. He even tries to make jokes and tease a bit himself. Sometimes they're really clever and funny, but most of the time we have to tell him that the joke didn't make any sense. Lol

Kids can usually get and use sarcasm at 8. We had to teach both of ours the basics of humor, explaining jokes and what made them funny, explaining sarcasm, all of it. Obviously, when you're doing that, the joke is long past actually being funny anymore, but we've been rewarded with two kids who have sharp senses of humor. Bunny-Wan Kenobi regularly spouts one-liner responses that put us all in stitches... and he's the one who didn't laugh as a baby. It's my understanding that Galadriel recently momentarily crippled MSD's husband with a meme she made for a thread on here.

Both of them tried out jokes on us for years while they learned how to make a good one. At first, we laughed at them all, because we could see they were trying and hoping to make us laugh. As they learned, we laughed more at the funny ones, and gave a good chuckle at the attempts. We explained why this one was funny, why this one really wasn't, and why this one didn't make sense.

It sounds to me like you are all doing just fine on your own, but I would recommend doing some reading on the subject and then deciding whether or not you think having him evaluated might be beneficial.

You could do this and go on without a diagnosis, most likely. After all, my husband was never diagnosed. I'm sure there were numerous high-functioning autistics throughout history who learned to get along okay before the condition was formally described.

Having a formal diagnosis does help with some things, though. For instance, if he has to take a standardized test (even some homeschoolers have to do this), they will have to accommodate him with extended timing, and maybe even a one-on-one testing assistant. Aspies frequently have trouble getting things from their brains out through their fingertips, so the assistant can fill in the circles as he tells her what to fill in. In Florida, we either had to do a standardized test every year, or submit to a portfolio review. We opted for the test, because the review had to be done by a Florida certified teacher. I didn't know any teachers friendly to homeschooling except for one year (we did the portfolio review that time). But anyway, that's one of the ways a formal diagnosis can smooth the road ahead.

I would also pay particular attention to the dietary recommendations for those on the spectrum. I don't know if dietary sensitivities are linked specifically to the more severe cases or are part and parcel of the whole spectrum, but going gluten free, avoiding food coloring, and substituting Stevia for sugar as a sweetener often make a huge difference in the frequency and severity of emotional meltdowns.

Yes, this is a good thing to try. We all went on a diet that was free of gluten, artificial colors, and artificial preservatives for a month. Result: no difference. BUT a lot of families find that it makes a huge difference, even having autistic symptoms vanish on a gluten-free diet. Or milk-free. Or whatever.

Think of an evaluation as a guidebook for a journey: it can help you see where you want to go with your son, places to avoid, what supplies you and your son might need along the way. Your son is still the wonderful & unique creation he is, regardless of what he is "labeled", so continue to celebrate him as a capable, cool kid and use any information you might discover to help strengthen him over the years so he can be an independent, capable, happy adult. Jmho.

In our case, at the final consultation with the neuropsychologist, he praised me for taking dictation from Galadriel when she had a writing assignment, but wanted me to take it a step further by getting her a voice-recognition program so she could do her work independently. He had all sorts of suggestions for handling day-to-day issues, and helped me realize that it was okay to cut out as much written schoolwork as possible. We started doing almost everything orally. All kinds of things.

Thank you. We already have a household where traditional 'junk food's is a rarity. We don't keep candy, (aside from chocolate, sometimes), we don't do flavored drinks, we have minimized, but not eliminated, gluten (we tried 'gluten free' for about a month, but gave up because, in part, we discovered it was impossible to keep other people... namely my mom, from giving him gluten when she was watching him). The fact that we already are pretty careful about what we ALL eat may be responsible for why his behaviours aren't as intense as they might otherwise be. Considering how intense they already CAN be, at times, that's a scary thought.

I'm a little leery of products like stevia. I know it's 'natural' and all, but honestly, we don't add sugar to anything anyway, so I don't see that it would make a difference. We use raw sugar, but I'm really the ONLY one who uses it for anything and that's in my morning coffee.

Ah, okay, you've already been down this road.

Susie, the people who evaluate children for Autism and other issues are some of the most kind and caring people I have ever met. Their empathy knows no bounds. So if you are worried about them asking why you think he may be on the spectrum, just say, "he thinks some chicken is slimy" or perhaps rephrase it to "he has issues with texture in foods'. They will completely understand you either way.

In our case, there was a rather daunting questionnaire, but the neuropsychologist and his receptionist were so amazingly sweet. Galadriel's testing (age 7) was two days long, four hours each day -- but she had a blast! I was sitting in the waiting room right outside the door, and I heard her and the doctor laugh their heads off quite regularly. In the final consult, he told me how much fun it had been to test her, and that the very fact that she enjoyed the tests he threw at her (which she called "games" ) was indicative of her being autistic. He said that when he tests kids that end up not being autistic, they don't like the testing. They're bored. They want out. She had so much fun, she kept pestering me to take her back for more. :roll:

When we arrived for the first day's consult and then testing, she brought her portable Lite-Brite with a picture on it. She excitedly showed him the Lite-Brite -- look, it's battery operated, look at the rotating peg bin, you push this button to turn on the light, and it fades off after a minute to save the batteries... she never showed him the picture. I mean, of course it was there for him to see, but he said a neurotypical kid would have said, "Look at the picture I did." She didn't, instead concentrating on the different aspects of the device, which he said was typical of autism. All these little things that weren't even part of the testing helped him understand what was going on.

Autistic people possess that 'outside the box' thinking that is invaluable in a society. The thought of Autism should not be feared, but embraced.

I cannot agree with this more. When I tell the kids that they must learn to overcome, I am not telling them they must become like everyone else. I'm telling them that they need to find whatever coping mechanisms they need to to help them function in the world around them... since that's the world they're in, and they're going to have to deal with it. Asperger's is sometimes called "Wrong Planet Syndrome". There's even a website you might find helpful: http://wrongplanet.net/

My main concerns are that he's able to overcome some obstacles that he's having trouble with and be able to be a 'happy kid' most of the time. Well, he IS pretty happy MOST of the time, I guess, but there are certain areas he has a lot of difficulty in and those things are big enough to worry me for his future, if I'm unable to help him through them properly. :/

I understand. Sounds like a lot of us do. Bunny-Wan Kenobi used to get very angry very easily. It really, really concerned me. In the last couple of years, though, he has really improved in that area.

or that he would think he could use it as an excuse for poor behavior.

This is something that you, if you do get him evaluated and he is diagnosed, will have to address immediately. We did this ourselves. Once Galadriel was diagnosed, we explained what it meant and that she was never to use it as an excuse for anything. You have to draw that line in the sand right away, and if he crosses it, there have to be consequences that he understands -- even if it is just your displeasure. It depends on what is effective with him... what makes him realize, "oh, dear... I really messed up." Galadriel tried it once, when she was still 7. Now, she just recognizes that she doesn't think like most 18-year-olds... that she is significantly more mature than most of them in some ways, and significantly less mature in other areas.

We're already a bunch of oddballs in this family and heck, probably ALL of us are 'on the spectrum' if someone were to really evaluate us, but I'm hoping that he won't have to deal with some of the struggles that some of us have had to deal with in our lives, without ANY help or support, often ending up in really bad life situations because of it.

It's quite possible more of your family would end up testing "on the spectrum". It does tend to run in families. I suspect my father would have tested on the spectrum. My husband certainly would, as reading about Galadriel's Asperger's was like reading about him. He says he didn't start learning social skills until he was in his early twenties. Thankfully, I didn't know him then.

 

[Susie570]

Before you read, I want y'all to know that I posted this only after having it reviewed and okayed by both of my kids. I even offered to send it as a PM only to Susie, but they were fine with it appearing here.

I just wanted to say how thankful I am, to all of you here, for your kind and thoughtful words. Bunny-Wan and Galadriel - it was very helpful for you to allow your mom to share specific things about your history. This helps me a great deal.

I don't know if my son is actually 'on the spectrum' or not. I do plan to get him tested in several areas, to see if there is anything that will help our family with the areas we are struggling in. Most of the time, things are fine (of course, FINE for us might be really freaking weird for a lot of families, but it works for us), but those times when they are NOT, are worrisome enough that I want to get some outside help, just to make sure that I'M not doing something really wrong. Some things have improved, other things have gotten worse and some of those things that have gotten worse are things that a person might say "Oh, he'll grow out of it, it's just a stage he's going through..." when the kid is still little.

If he did test 'on the spectrum', I think it would also help us to be a little more understanding with certain behaviors. Well, not so much tolerant, but patient in working through them. I often find myself trying to decide if this is something he's doing just to be contrary, of if it's something he can't help. Should he be punished, or should I work harder to help him with whatever he's going through?

As a side note, I just realized that the stuff I post here is viewable to the entire world and I have a mentally ill ex who does continue to stalk me. Here I am, talking about very private things in a very public place. I'm going to change my name, if I'm able to do it. I hope it will also change on my old posts. If not, I may have to do some editing in this thread.

Thank you all

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Before you read, I want y'all to know that I posted this only after having it reviewed and okayed by both of my kids.

I wish I could press the "Thanks" button for Galadriel and Bunny-Wan for that post too!

Since I can't...

:thankyou: Galadriel and Bunny-Wan!!!

As a side note, I just realized that the stuff I post here is viewable to the entire world and I have a mentally ill ex who does continue to stalk me. Here I am, talking about very private things in a very public place. I'm going to change my name, if I'm able to do it. I hope it will also change on my old posts.

PM MaggieJ with your new user name and she or MidnightCoder will implement the change for you. It really messes things up if members change their names themselves- although I don't know how or why specifically. :?

Your name will be changed on all prior posts. We normally ask that you add "Formerly known as" to your signature for a short time just so people know who you are (or were), but maybe in your case people will recognize your avatar pic...?

 

[Susie570]

I sent a message earlier. Hopefully, she can get it changed and this will fly under the radar. :x

I will leave my avatar picture, I think folks will figure it out.

 

[Miss M]

As a side note, I just realized that the stuff I post here is viewable to the entire world and I have a mentally ill ex who does continue to stalk me. Here I am, talking about very private things in a very public place. I'm going to change my name, if I'm able to do it. I hope it will also change on my old posts. If not, I may have to do some editing in this thread.

PM MaggieJ with your new user name and she or MidnightCoder will implement the change for you. It really messes things up if members change their names themselves- although I don't know how or why specifically. :?

Your name will be changed on all prior posts. We normally ask that you add "Formerly known as" to your signature for a short time just so people know who you are (or were), but maybe in your case people will recognize your avatar pic...?

Members can't actually change their names, I don't think. We've had some who have decided to simply sign up anew with a different username... I guess they didn't think to ask. Then we have to try to fix it all. We prefer not to change names, but I don't think that anyone who has asked has been refused. It's just less confusing for everyone (and less work) if members pick a good name they can stick with from the start. Naturally, cases like this are completely understandable.

 

[Susie570]

Yeah, I'd rather change it completely. I've put the request in, hoping to get it done soon.

 

[Miss M]

No, I meant in your signature. But if that's too much, that's okay.

 

[Susie570]

No, I meant in your signature. But if that's too much, that's okay.

I'd rather not because that might be searchable.

 

[TF3]

Great thread!
Mama Sheepdog~ your post helps *me* and will be great for helping my daughter (and some adults I know!) along with this part of our delving in to rabbits.

My daughter has Asperger's, she's nearly 10. I'm not sure yet how she will be when the rabbit hits the plate ~ she tends to be over attached and emotional OR perfectly calm and cool... could go either way.

Her Holland Lops are her "attachment rabbits" ~ thanks to the poster who called them that and our breeding animals are of limit for now (by the time they need to go, she will hopefully be a little more used to it).

 

[Galadriel]

In our case, at the final consultation with the neuropsychologist, he praised me for taking dictation from Galadriel when she had a writing assignment, but wanted me to take it a step further by getting her a voice-recognition program so she could do her work independently

Yeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhh............................ that didn't go very well, did it? :roll: It barely understood half of what I said, and the rest I had to hand correct. No fun whatsoever. :?

I wish I could press the "Thanks" button for Galadriel and Bunny-Wan for that post too!

Since I can't...

:thankyou: Galadriel and Bunny-Wan!!!

S'okay! You're welcome! Shucks.......

Members can't actually change their names, I don't think. We've had some who have decided to simply sign up anew with a different username... I guess they didn't think to ask. Then we have to try to fix it all. We prefer not to change names, but I don't think that anyone who has asked has been refused. It's just less confusing for everyone (and less work) if members pick a good name they can stick with from the start. Naturally, cases like this are completely understandable.

I didn't change mine, I asked Miss Maggie to change it for me. I used to be ILoveBunnies, (creative, right?) But then I noticed an influx of similarly named members and I realized that a name change was my only hope of not getting buried! At the time, "The Lord of the Rings" was a new rave for me, and I had three girls' names to choose from, Arwen Undomiel, Eowyn, and Galadriel. I finally settled on the super-powerful Elf queen. :lol:

One other thing, my imagination is such that I can almost see before me what is playing in my mind. There are two things, I think, that sum this experience up almost perfectly. One is the movie I just saw tonight. "Finding Neverland". You see, as clearly as reality, the pictures in the man's head, as clearly as he sees them. It's as if he's there: on a pirate ship in a storm, in an old western town, dancing with a trained bear in a circus. It's clear and crisp and almost tangible.

The other thing is a conversation between an actor and his producer. Sean Astin speaking with Director Peter Jackson about the Shelob scene in "The Lord of the Rings".

Jackson: "Just pretend that there's a giant spider there and you have to fight it."
Astin: "I see the spider.... I do!"

That's me. And it's totally awesome!

 

[Susie570]

I didn't change mine, I asked Miss Maggie to change it for me. I used to be ILoveBunnies, (creative, right?) But then I noticed an influx of similarly named members and I realized that a name change was my only hope of not getting buried! At the time, "The Lord of the Rings" was a new rave for me, and I had three girls' names to choose from, Arwen Undomiel, Eowyn, and Galadriel. I finally settled on the super-powerful Elf queen. :lol:

I like your new name
Ironically, my son has recently gotten into the habit of just randomly saying "I Like Bunnies!!!" :roll:
I mean, this would be ok... but he does it every few hours. It's kind of like chinese water torture. :lol: STAAAAHHHPPP!!!

One other thing, my imagination is such that I can almost see before me what is playing in my mind. ....
Jackson: "Just pretend that there's a giant spider there and you have to fight it."
Astin: "I see the spider.... I do!"

That's me. And it's totally awesome!

It IS I've always had that ability as well and recently discovered Skye can do it. He told me that reading a book is sometimes as good as a movie because you can see it in your head and I was like "YESS!"

 

[MaggieJ]

One other thing, my imagination is such that I can almost see before me what is playing in my mind. . . . And it's totally awesome!

It is awesome . . . and it will be a great asset to you as you continue writing your trilogy. When you're "in the groove" (or however one says it these days ) what you are typing on your screen will be a clear picture in your mind's eye.

 

[Miss M]

It IS I've always had that ability as well and recently discovered Skye can do it. He told me that reading a book is sometimes as good as a movie because you can see it in your head and I was like "YESS!"

Absolutely! It's like that for me, too. In fact, there are some books I had the kids read (or read to them) before they saw the movies, so they had the chance to see their own concepts first. Though, with the LOTR movies, it ended up being as if they had taken all the images right out of my head and stuck them on the screen.

 

[Susie570]

Yeah, it's pretty awesome when one of your favorite books is turned into a movie and they do a good job with it.

A with any good thing, there are also negative aspects to it. I think I'm going to have to ban my kid from watching YouTube, completely. He keeps watching stuff that fills his head with negative stuff. He talks about 'five nights at freddies' (some stupid horror game that he has never played and keeps asking me for) because he watches YouTube videos about it. He went on for two hours about 'plum island' and how the government is secretly creating mutants and how the 'robot revolution' is going to wipe out mankind. I don't know, weird, paranoid stuff. I don't know what to do about it except refuse to let him watch any YouTube videos anymore. It's a shame because there are so many good things out there for him to watch. :/