Miss M tries Linux

[Miss M]

Woohoohoo... currently installing Vinux on Mom's machine... will reply later!

 

[Rainey]

Perhaps I should have started a new thread--linux for dummies?--or something like that. But there were already 2 active computer threads so I have a question that I'm going to ask here. The worst that can happen on RT is I get whacked with the chair.

Everyone on both computer threads is talking windows. I have a MacBook--old. I've been doing the website for our farm on iweb which is no longer supported--when I have to replace this computer I'll have to change how I work on the website. The cooperative model of linux really appeals to me. (When they broke up our power company and we had to choose an energy provider, we chose a cooperative providing 9?% from renewables even though it costs more than some of the alternatives) But my question is how smart do you have to be about computers to use Linux? And is it somehow easier to move from windows to linux or is windows just what most everyone has? If linux could be a choice for someone as limited as me, can anyone suggest where I should start to learn more--a place where the computer speak won't all be over my head?

 

[alforddm]

Perhaps I should have started a new thread--linux for dummies?--or something like that. But there were already 2 active computer threads so I have a question that I'm going to ask here. The worst that can happen on RT is I get whacked with the chair.

Everyone on both computer threads is talking windows. I have a MacBook--old. I've been doing the website for our farm on iweb which is no longer supported--when I have to replace this computer I'll have to change how I work on the website. The cooperative model of linux really appeals to me. (When they broke up our power company and we had to choose an energy provider, we chose a cooperative providing 9?% from renewables even though it costs more than some of the alternatives) But my question is how smart do you have to be about computers to use Linux? And is it somehow easier to move from windows to linux or is windows just what most everyone has? If linux could be a choice for someone as limited as me, can anyone suggest where I should start to learn more--a place where the computer speak won't all be over my head?

Linux is pretty much plug and play for most anything you would want to do now-a-days. Internet, email, and office software are usually included with your install and you really don't' need to do anything, just install. If you play games you may need to install a different graphics driver but usually that is painless as well. Occasionally you will run into a bug that needs additional work but generally it just works.

The only times I have ran into a problem, when I wasn't actively "messing" with stuff was when I had a fairly new graphics card and got a blank screen on install. A quick google yielded a fix.

 

[Miss M]

I said, "Are you kidding? This OS is awful and you know it, but it's the only OS I have right now. Stealing Vista would be like stealing herpes. If I was going to steal an OS, I'd steal one of value." He hung up on me.

:coffee-screen:

I read that aloud, so the whole family could die of lack of oxygen along with me.

Fair warning Cinnamon is a modern desktop interface and runs best on modern GPU's. Software rendering mode of cinnamon can be painfully slow. So I use Linux Mint Mate on older machines: older than 2009ish depending on the GPU.

Thank you for the warning! I took a look at the two older computers I'm looking to put it on:

Computer 1
AMD Phenom II X3 720
2.81 GHz
4 GB RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics card with 512 MB GDDR3 RAM

Computer 2
AMD Phenom II X4 965
3.40 GHz
4 GB RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics card with 512 MB GDDR3 RAM

How do those look, for Cinnamon? I built these in 2008 and 2009, I think. I didn't get the latest and best, but I intentionally overbuilt for my needs, figuring increasing demands of programs down the road.

Yes definitely use the burner recommended by Ubuntu website; it ensures that the image includes a boot sector. It is also smart to use a download manager like DownThemAll that will allow you to perform a checksum of the included MD5 Sums.

I made sure to compare the MD5 sums after downloading, and the Windows 7 burner recommended by Ubuntu worked beautifully.

Yes DVD R - and DVD R + was a mess for the entire computer industry; unfortunately it was never resolved by the industry and will probably never be fixed by the Open Source community either.

You're probably right... everything's flash drives now.

So RT is running slow or is it Cinnamon? If it is Cinnamon you are probably in software rendering mode. Have you tried going to the settings and checking the "Driver Manager" to allow it to install extra drivers?

I think it's slow because she's running it from the DVD install disk so she could try it out.

Yes, it was slow because I was running it from DVD.

Sounds like the motor is shot in the drive; but could be the DVD drive all together. If the drive still spins up the DVD you will be lucky and should be able to install. Other wise you may need to use an external DVD drive or a new internal one. If the computer does not support USB boot though; then you will have to buy a new internal one or find one on another computer and swap it long enough for the install.

I think the motor is going. You can hear it engage, but it won't eject. It will draw back in, though, and it installed Vinux with no problem. I did find that that computer cannot boot from USB. Also, the CD-ROM was the master, with the DVD drive being the slave, so I had to swap the two. That worked, and got it booting and installed. I was prepared to borrow the DVD drive from another computer if necessary.

The road to Linux Freedom is long no matter how hard the community has worked to shorten the road; we all will have problems that have not been encountered enough to warrant a fix action by the community.
But know that you are not alone; the Linux community is vast and full of people ready and willing to help with the transition; you just have to remember that the support is always given on the givers own time.
When you post back if you are in software rendering mode be sure to post back the GPU type. The terminal command follows.
$ sudo lshw -C display

What is software rendering mode?

The computer I have installed Vinux on is as follows:

Computer 3
Intel Pentium 4
3 GHz
1 GB RAM
ATI R9600 PRO graphics card with 256 MB DDR2 RAM

I actually cannot find Vinux system requirements.

I am having trouble with hesitation and freezing. I suspect I need to install an ATI driver. I'll get there.

Perhaps I should have started a new thread--linux for dummies?--or something like that. But there were already 2 active computer threads so I have a question that I'm going to ask here. The worst that can happen on RT is I get whacked with the chair.

Everyone on both computer threads is talking windows. I have a MacBook--old. I've been doing the website for our farm on iweb which is no longer supported--when I have to replace this computer I'll have to change how I work on the website. The cooperative model of linux really appeals to me. (When they broke up our power company and we had to choose an energy provider, we chose a cooperative providing 9?% from renewables even though it costs more than some of the alternatives) But my question is how smart do you have to be about computers to use Linux? And is it somehow easier to move from windows to linux or is windows just what most everyone has? If linux could be a choice for someone as limited as me, can anyone suggest where I should start to learn more--a place where the computer speak won't all be over my head?

I can't be a lot of help right now, since I'm just starting to make the leap myself. So far, it does appear like Alforddm said... pretty much plug-n-play. I've got a couple of things to figure out. My mom would love for the launcher bar to go away, and to have those things on the desktop instead. It does look like there may be some involved workarounds. I'm a bit limited for options for her, because she's visually impaired, so I have to deal with the Vinux and therefore the launcher. There are other distributions of Linux that don't have the launcher and are more flexible. Zorin looked awesome, very easy for a Windows user, until questions arose about whether it was continuing to be developed. Mint looks reasonably flexible, and relatively easy for a Windows user.

Feel free to ask questions here in my thread, if you want, or to start one. I'm so glad to be getting a lot of help! As for the computer speak, that can be taken care of. Answers can be tailored to the asker.

 

[alforddm]

What is software rendering mode?

Software rendering mode is where the software does all the rendering rather than using the graphics hardware. It uses your cpu and ram to do the processing so it slows things down considerably as those resources are not available for other things.

I'm not at all familiar with Vlinux but in some desktops you can just drag things from the launcher bar to the desktop?

I think you should be ok with cinnamon for your requirements for the first two. The only thing I can see that might cause a problem is that ATI doesn't provide updated linux graphics drivers for older cards and the old drivers don't work with the new linux kernels (I'm not exactly sure where the cut off is just that I had problems with some of my ati graphics). It shouldn't be a problem as there is a open source driver that is pretty good, but it could cause problems with some games.


There should be an "install additional drivers" option in the menu. I think it's under "settings" or "administration" Check and see if it has any additional drivers recommended.

__________ Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:05 am __________

Which desktop environment did you choose for Vlinux?

 

[Miss M]

Software rendering mode is where the software does all the rendering rather than using the graphics hardware. It uses your cpu and ram to do the processing so it slows things down considerably as those resources are not available for other things.

Oh! Got it! Yeah, that would slow things down, wouldn't it.

I'm not at all familiar with Vlinux but in some desktops you can just drag things from the launcher bar to the desktop?

I tried, but Vinux won't allow it. The icons just fly back to the launcher. I can't find any setting anywhere that allows you to put things on the desktop.

http://vinuxproject.org/

I think you should be ok with cinnamon for your requirements for the first two. The only thing I can see that might cause a problem is that ATI doesn't provide updated linux graphics drivers for older cards and the old drivers don't work with the new linux kernels (I'm not exactly sure where the cut off is just that I had problems with some of my ati graphics). It shouldn't be a problem as there is a open source driver that is pretty good, but it could cause problems with some games.


There should be an "install additional drivers" option in the menu. I think it's under "settings" or "administration" Check and see if it has any additional drivers recommended.

Thank you! I'll look into that, and the open source driver. My kids don't play a whole lot of computer games anymore... mostly Stronghold, which I got from GOG (Good Old Games).

Which desktop environment did you choose for Vlinux?

If I understand correctly, it has four different themes, but only one environment. The themes change only the appearance of the icons and some colors. It's on the High Contrast theme, which she likes. You can make things very large, which she also likes, but for some reason they didn't make it so the spaces for the menu items in some of the menus scale with the menu icons.... so if you make them much larger, you almost can't read the Settings menu -- and it actually disappears off the bottom of the page, with no way to get to those things unless you redo the setting that made it so big. :shrug:

It does have an option for four workspaces... is that like having four desktops that you switch among? :shock:

 

[alforddm]

I was reading on their site and it says

Vinux now provides three desktop environments of choice, Unity, Gnome and Mate.

but when I go to the download page it doesn't say which your downloading. If it's Unity, there may not be any way to get rid of the launcher. That is one of the problems some people have with a unity desktop was that you couldn't customize it nearly as much.

Oh wait I found it

As of Vinux 5.0 released November 2015, images include Unity Gnome-Shell and the Mate Desktop environments.

That means they are all included on the dvd did they ask you which one to install? If not you should be able to logout and then on the login screen, below the password box, there should be a little gear like icon. Click on it and it will allow you to change your desktop environment. Try one or both of the other ones and see which one she likes better.

 

[Bunny-Wan Kenobi]

Okay, question: Is WINE installed with Vinux? I can't find anything about it, and the only real low-vision games I'm finding are for Windows.

 

[Miss M]

Oh wait I found it

As of Vinux 5.0 released November 2015, images include Unity Gnome-Shell and the Mate Desktop environments.



That means they are all included on the dvd did they ask you which one to install? If not you should be able to logout and then on the login screen, below the password box, there should be a little gear like icon. Click on it and it will allow you to change your desktop environment. Try one or both of the other ones and see which one she likes better.

Okay, thank you! I never saw an option at install, and I've never seen anything about it. I'm so glad you found that little blurb! And I thought I read everything sooooo well. :roll: I guess it's just all so new, it was falling back out as I was shoveling it in.

I'll see what happens!

__________ Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:17 pm __________

You're right! We're trying the MATE desktop, and I think she likes that a lot better so far.

__________ Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:18 am __________

Oh, this MATE environment seems to be way friendlier to my mom's needs and preferences!

I am now typing from the strangest-looking RT. Picture everything being a deep royal blue, with white lines and white print. :lol:

I have been able to customize the print size even better, and with NoSquint installed on Firefox, I can customize settings by website.

It surprised me when she wanted a white-on-dark theme. She has always wanted black-on-white. She explained, though, that a doctor had explained to her once that she would want black-on-white for a good while, but that her macular degeneration would eventually get to the point at which all the white would have a blinding effect, and she would then find herself switching to white-on-dark. So now we're there. She's still fighting to keep reading and poking around on the internet and doing genealogy stuff. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:35 pm __________ <br /><br /> Okay, question: Is WINE installed with Vinux? I can't find anything about it, and the only real low-vision games I'm finding are for Windows.

 

[alforddm]

Probably not, most Linux versions don't include wine but typy can check by opening a terminal and typing

wine --version (note two -'s not one).

 

[Miss M]

Thank you! So cool... it told me that it wasn't installed, and then told me how to get it!

 

[alforddm]

Have you found the software manager or app store or whatever it's called? They've really improved that over the years. I don't use it much as I started using linux back before they had a software manager and still prefer to install stuff from the terminal, but it does have it's uses, and might be really handy for someone new to linux.

Also, if you want some games you may find this site useful. http://www.playdeb.net/welcome/ I've found quite a few games on there in the past and they are all native linux and most are free. Not sure about the accessibility of any of them though.

Did you have any problems installing wine? Here is the wine website if you haven't found it. https://www.winehq.org/ I highly recommend looking up any software you plan to install (some things just aren't work the trouble). Usually it will say how well it works on wine and often has tips to improve performance. Of course not everything is listed but alot of it is.

 

[Miss M]

Have you found the software manager or app store or whatever it's called? They've really improved that over the years. I don't use it much as I started using linux back before they had a software manager and still prefer to install stuff from the terminal, but it does have it's uses, and might be really handy for someone new to linux.

Yes, I have found the software store thingy. I've installed a couple of things from it. One is a card game collection that Mom is using until I have some time to get Wine and some low-vision games. Another is a thing that was supposed to give me some mouse pointer options... only it vanished.

The MATE desktop is a lot faster than the other one. I discovered that Ubuntu comes with an open-source ATI driver installed already, so it wasn't that. I just needed to switch to another desktop that was easier on resources. It's working great. It's fast. Much faster than Windows.

Things to do as I have time (hopefully this weekend):
* My mom isn't getting sound, but I had been getting the screen reader, so I have that to figure out.
* My mom wants a permanent link to her old hard drive on the desktop. Right now, it mounts the drive when you select it, and sticks a link on the desktop. As soon as you turn the computer off, the link is gone.
* It doesn't want to mount her mp3 player. I was hoping it would work like a flash drive, so I could transfer stuff on and off.
* Wine.
* Solitaire.
* Library Overdrive.
* Extremely lightweight weather app. We have limited bandwidth, so it can't be constantly updating the radar or something. She likes to check the weather, but weather websites are so dependent on scripts, backgrounds, etc., that they don't display well on the high-contrast theme.
* Decrease "swappiness", so it will use memory more and paging file less, speeding things up even more.
* Find the mouse thing I supposedly installed, and get rid of it. If it's not going to work, I don't want it. It's a bit odd that large mouse pointer options would not have been included in Vinux, but I guess I'll drop them a line.

Also, if you want some games you may find this site useful. http://www.playdeb.net/welcome/ I've found quite a few games on there in the past and they are all native linux and most are free. Not sure about the accessibility of any of them though.

Thank you! I don't see the solitaire she likes to play, but I'll keep looking around on there!

Did you have any problems installing wine? Here is the wine website if you haven't found it. https://www.winehq.org/ I highly recommend looking up any software you plan to install (some things just aren't work the trouble). Usually it will say how well it works on wine and often has tips to improve performance. Of course not everything is listed but alot of it is.

I haven't done it yet, but I appreciate the tips! I'll make sure to check things out before trying them!

__________ Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:21 am __________

Currently installing Wine... <br /><br /> __________ Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:47 am __________ <br /><br /> Now installing updates...

 

[alforddm]

Things to do as I have time (hopefully this weekend):
* My mom isn't getting sound, but I had been getting the screen reader, so I have that to figure out.
* My mom wants a permanent link to her old hard drive on the desktop. Right now, it mounts the drive when you select it, and sticks a link on the desktop. As soon as you turn the computer off, the link is gone.
* It doesn't want to mount her mp3 player. I was hoping it would work like a flash drive, so I could transfer stuff on and off.
* Wine.
* Solitaire.
* Library Overdrive.
* Extremely lightweight weather app. We have limited bandwidth, so it can't be constantly updating the radar or something. She likes to check the weather, but weather websites are so dependent on scripts, backgrounds, etc., that they don't display well on the high-contrast theme.
* Decrease "swappiness", so it will use memory more and paging file less, speeding things up even more.
* Find the mouse thing I supposedly installed, and get rid of it. If it's not going to work, I don't want it. It's a bit odd that large mouse pointer options would not have been included in Vinux, but I guess I'll drop them a line.

Linux doesn't mount windows drives automatically. Go to the disk manager and click on your widows partition. Then click the little gear icon and select mount options. Turn off the automount and then select mount at startup. Then restart and make sure it mounts. If that doesn't work you can try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Autom ... Partitions

When you start to google solutions to some of your problems, google with a string such as "no sound ubuntu 15.04 mate desktop" You'll get a lot more results that way than googling directly for Vlinux.

With the sound, go to settings and select sound and make sure nothing is muted and that the correct output is selected. I have had Linux select the wrong output when both with digital and analog are present.

What is Library Overdrive?

__________ Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:02 am __________

It looks like there is a native mate weather applet but I have not idea how to find or enable it.

Otherwise, I did a quick search for weather apps. You might try http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/10/inst ... untu-14-10

I haven't tried it as I really like the gnome extension I have installed.

 

[Miss M]

Linux doesn't mount windows drives automatically. Go to the disk manager and click on your widows partition. Then click the little gear icon and select mount options. Turn off the automount and then select mount at startup. Then restart and make sure it mounts.

Thank you, that worked! "Mount at startup" was already selected, but I turned off automount, rebooted, and it appeared!

She knew how to get to it, but this just makes it that much easier.

With the sound, go to settings and select sound and make sure nothing is muted and that the correct output is selected. I have had Linux select the wrong output when both with digital and analog are present.

I actually have been going into the sound settings to set it correctly... I think this was the third time. I don't know why it wasn't sticking, but I think it may have been the fault of Orca (the screen reader). Mom doesn't need the screen reader at this time, so I removed it from the startup list. Then I went into sound settings again an put them back where they belonged. Rebooted, and this time the settings stuck.

When you start to google solutions to some of your problems, google with a string such as "no sound ubuntu 15.04 mate desktop" You'll get a lot more results that way than googling directly for Vlinux.

Thank you! I was wondering, since it seemed like I got a lot of Ubuntu results. This will make things easier.

What is Library Overdrive?

Overdrive is a way to access ebooks and audiobooks (among other things) from local libraries. You get to it from your library website, log in with your library card number, and you can check out electronic items. Mom has been plowing through audiobooks through Overdrive. She favors history and biographies. I understand I can run it in Wine, I just can't use Overdrive to transfer the books to her player. I'm hoping I can get her player to mount, and then figure another way to transfer the books.

It looks like there is a native mate weather applet but I have not idea how to find or enable it.

I found the native applet, and it's working well. It doesn't have a forecast, though, and the one you linked to does. I'll give that one a try.

Thanks for all your help! :thankyou:

 

[alforddm]

For the MP3 problems try opening Rhythmbox (or the default music player in the mate desktop) and see if it will recognize the MP3 player.

If not try this https://help.ubuntu.com/stable/ubuntu-h ... nized.html and see if that works.

If not post the name of the mp3 player and I'll see what I can find.

 

[Miss M]

Okay, thank you! I'll give those a try tomorrow!

__________ Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:00 am __________

Okay... I haven't tried with the MP3 player again, but will very soon.

I kept having the issue with the sound card setting switching back to onboard sound, but finally disabled the onboard sound in the BIOS (thanks to the advice of someone on the Ubuntu forum... one of those times when you go "duh... why didn't I think of that?"). Problem solved. Nothing I haven't dealt with lots of times in Windows, that's for sure.

And...

As of tonight, I am running Linux Mint (Cinnamon) on another computer. Loving how fast it is so far. Need to change some settings (I don't need to put in a password when it wakes up from the monitor turning off, that sort of thing), and add some users. Probably won't get to do that tomorrow.

I'm a happy camper so far. <br /><br /> __________ Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:10 pm __________ <br /><br /> Oh, yeah, LOVING how fast this is!!!

I need to reassign the mouse wheel, no big deal.

I found how to add users, and that was totally painless.

Found the "New Login" function, which is the same as Windows' "Switch User", and added those to all the desktops (and renamed them "Switch User", as that's a little more straightforward). It was a bit buried in the menu.

I'm wondering if the Admin account (mine) has to have a password every time. I haven't found where to change that yet. Not a big deal. I may create a Standard account for me. I'm not sure if the Admin account on Linux has security vulnerabilities like it does on Windows. Might look that up.

I need to restore all the documents and pictures backed up from Windows to all the user accounts.

 

[alforddm]

Yaye!

I think on linux that the admin account requires a password because you have to have sudo privileges. I usually just have the one account so have it set to login automatically however, when you have several people with different accounts that really isn't feasible.

 

[Miss M]

I think on linux that the admin account requires a password because you have to have sudo privileges.

That does make sense. I still don't know what sudo means, but I have used it to install things from the command line a few times. Makes sense that that capability would be protected.

I've got Galadriel's and BWK's files restored. I spent some time personalizing the accounts -- wallpapers and Firefox skins (partly so you could tell at a glance whose account was up if it was still logged in), screensavers... removed unnecessary buttons from Firefox, installed NoScript, Ghostery, AdBlock Plus (whitelisted RT, of course ), and a new one I'm trying out -- Self-Destructing Cookies (whitelisted RT so it would save my login info).

I wonder if Pale Moon runs on here. :hmm: It's more lightweight than FF. As a fork, it has become different enough now that some websites that require certain browsers (like my bank's) don't recognize it, though.

I'm not having any trouble at all with FF being slow... the Linux is so light and fast, FF is fast now. Like it used to be.