Losing 4 week old kits

[TerriG]

We have one doe (Wheezy) that always have kits with enteritis. I've posted about it before. We have an up to 50% loss rate with her. We plan on replacing her. This litter of 11 is already down to 7. We fostered 3 of her kits over to another doe, so she only had 8 to nurse. We lost the runt (no surprise and we don't count it against her). Then we lost a black kit that had gotten into Mom's BOSS. Then one of the agouti's got a yucky butt. He held on for many more days than expected, but died yesterday. So she is down to 4 left with her.

Ruby had 6 (as a first timer) and fostered 3 kits from the other doe. My dd noticed a kit with a yucky butt in her nest box. I had just sexed kits the days before, so I checked everyone's butt. No one was sick. We brought him inside, in an animal carrier that we use especially for this. Only gave him oats, hay, and water. He wasn't eating or drinking, even if I put water on my finger and wiped it on his mouth. I've seen this so many times that I could tell. I told dh he wasn't going to make it. He was dead this morning.

I went out to do rabbit chores this morning and their was a dead kit in Ruby's nest box. This brings Ruby down to 7 already. A couple more have a berry or two stuck to their butt, but not a yucky butt ... yet. They are going from first signs to dead in 24 hours. We've actually been warm for the last few days. I would expect that if it was the cold, it would have been when we were in the teens and below in the rabbitry.

I don't know why they are dying. We expect some losses, but I can't just keep losing them. I feed 16% pellets and hay. I sprinkled oats in the nest box at 2 1/2 weeks, and hay at 3 weeks. We have gone from 17, down to 11 and they aren't even weaned yet. I just moved them and Mom's to the grow-out cages. Mom will stay a week and then move back to her doe cage.

 

[Dood]

Were the ones Ruby lost from the 3 she fostered from Wheezy?

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Were the ones Ruby lost from the 3 she fostered from Wheezy?

That is what I was wondering...if they were, then you really need to get rid of Wheezy. If it was one of Ruby's kits, DO NOT foster any more of Wheezy's kits to another doe, as they are carrying some kind of enteritis from Wheezy to the new doe and her litter. It sounds cold, but I would dispatch all of Wheezy's kits and cull her from your breeding herd. She sounds like a liability you cannot afford to keep. I am sorry you are experiencing this...and I hope the situation improves for the better.

 

[AmysMacdog]

I'm wondering if you are dealing with Coccidiosis ( a protozoan parasite). Anyway you can take a fecal sample to the vet and have it checked? Having a fecal done usually doesn't cost much and could tell you if they have it or not and if they do, treatment is easy. It may be the parents have it and treating your herd will help keep this from popping up in the future along with preventative measures can be taken when bunnies are small.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I'm wondering if you are dealing with Coccidiosis ( a protozoan parasite). Anyway you can take a fecal sample to the vet and have it checked? Having a fecal done usually doesn't cost much and could tell you if they have it or not and if they do, treatment is easy. It may be the parents have it and treating your herd will help keep this from popping up in the future along with preventative measures can be taken when bunnies are small.

It can't hurt to ask, but I don't think Coccidia kills in 24 hours? It sounds more like some kind of enteropathy to me.... :thinking:

 

[TerriG]

It was not one of Wheezy's kits, not saying that we won't end up losing those I fostered over an agouti, a black, and a chin to Ruby. Ruby's kits are Palomino and Shaded (white with points). I made sure I could tell them apart.

I am just frustrated. I knew the one in the carrier inside wasn't going to make it. Like I said, I have seen this too many times. The dead one in the nest box is what put me over the edge. I was having a great day, getting lots done. We got several inches of fresh snow last night, but that also means our air quality is good again. The storm cleared off and we had blue skies, sunshine, and fresh snow. It doesn't get much better than that. I am prepared to lose Wheezy's kits, not other kits.

What I am calling enteritis is a messy butt (diarrhea). We have saved 2 kits with it in previous litters, but the losses are much greater than the saves. Usually Wheezy's kits don't turn around, no matter what we do. Usually it goes on for several days. Some we have culled. Some have died on their own. This going so fast just has me stumped.

Another thing to rule out is that I only have 2 nest boxes, but Ruby/Fern get one and Wheezy/Cookie get one. Wheezy and Cookie are Mother/Daughter and have messy kits. I don't want both nest boxes to be gross.

Also, we have not seen any spots or anything weird on any of the kits that have made it to butcher age.<br /><br />__________ Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:05 pm __________<br /><br />Oh, the very first kit we lost was 8 weeks old. He got so sick and gross, but we were new and didn't know what we were doing. When I hit up our good friend Google, it looked like either Mucoid Enteritis or Enteritis with a secondary infection. He stunk so bad. We culled him. Since then, we haven't had a kit that made it that old and then got sick. Not exactly sure when he got sick since we didn't check them as close then. I know it was after he weaned, which was 5-6 weeks.

The kits we have lost since then have all been around the time that they start on solids, but before weaning. Occasionally we lose one after weaning. That seems to be the line for us.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I think I would cull Wheezy and her daughter and all their kits. I would burn that nest box or sanitize the heck out of it if you can't burn it.

 

[Dood]

Well i guess we can rule out genetic defect passed on from Wheezy. It must be some disease that her kits are more susceptible to but others can catch as well.

Have you done necropsies on the kits.

Have you gone through the diseases and enviromental triggers on Medi Rabbit and ruled them all out? http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_disease ... s_main.htm

I'm so sorry this is happening and hopefully what ever it is your surviving kits are stronger for it in the long run. I would start planning for replacement does to get the resistant genes in your next litters.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

It was not one of Wheezy's kits, not saying that we won't end up losing those I fostered over an agouti, a black, and a chin to Ruby. Ruby's kits are Palomino and Shaded (white with points). I made sure I could tell them apart.I am just frustrated. I knew the one in the carrier inside wasn't going to make it. Like I said, I have seen this too many times. The dead one in the nest box is what put me over the edge.

This tells me that WHATEVER it is, it seems to be infectious. You should keep Wheezy, her daughter and their kits separate from your others until you figure out what you want to do.

 

[TerriG]

I haven't done a necropsy. I haven't found one fresh. They are cold and stiff when I find them. Can I still do it then? If so, I will do one on the next one we have.

As far as infectious ... idk. We have never had it cross over to another litter, even when we fostered. This is Ruby's first litter, so while it looks like Wheezy's kits gave Ruby's kits something, I can't rule out that it was a fluke since we don't have a history with Ruby.

We already have a doe that we are growing out, but she is only 8 weeks right now. She is from Fern and Thumper, so good stock. We were going to select one from Ruby's litter to grow out too.

What age should I plan on being able to bring them into rotation? Wheezy and Cookie are on opposite schedules, so we would stagger in the does to take their places.