Just for fun... (changed to "ID this kit color")

[LPH_NY]

I'm pretty sure I have a siamese kit in my most recent litter. They are 1 week old and I don't know the gender yet.... but I think I want to keep it.

If it's a buck, then I have 3 does that I can breed it with: Chocolate mother of the siamese kit, a chinchilla and a chestnut. If I breed it to the chocolate doe, then I may get chocolate kits, since he would be her son and would be carrying chocolate. Would the resulting litter likely be half chocolate and half siamese? Or might I expect something else? What *might* I get by crossing siamese with chinchilla or chestnut?

If the siamese is a doe, what might I get when crossing to a silver-tipped steel? If I cross it back to it's father, who contributed the siamese coloring, would I end up with a lot of siamese? The father is a black tort.

This is just for fun. I am really interested in increasing the number of colors of kits I end up with. They are meat/pelt rabbits, so there's no "rules" to consider. No pedigrees.

 

[akane]

Siamese sable requires a himi or REW gene and a sable gene. Which parent is carrying what you don't know at this point. Crossed back to the parents you will get 1/2 full color, 1/4th sable, and 1/4th whatever gene they contributed to make the sable. If that's sable you would have offspring with 2 sable genes making them seal. Those colors will also have a range of base colors that the parents have such as a son bred back to the chocolate doe will give you self black and chocolate, black and chocolate sable, and black and chocolate of whatever other gene. The chocolates that aren't full color will not be show quality. I'm not even sure chocolate sable has a name since it will not get anywhere on a show table so few cross sable to chocolate. Other hidden things are always possible. Generally you also don't cross chin and sable. Sable is also often called the light chin gene and makes an undesirably light chinchilla when paired with the agouti gene chinchillas have. You would also be giving your chin offspring a self gene and a self chin is just black. Both colors end up messed up. Not a huge deal if not showing but it can still be a pain for future breeding if you don't keep track of the genetics well. A chestnut is not guaranteed to throw anything but chestnut.

A sable doe crossed to the sire would give you first much the same as the doe of black, sable, and then depending what gene the sire contributed to the doe black himi, REW, or regular seal. You can also tort all those colors. A sable with tort is a sable point, a tort himi you can't really tell, a REW doesn't show the rest of it's color at all, and I'm not entirely sure what a seal point would look like. Probably just a smutty sable point. A silver steel is a steel chinchilla so you will have the same effect as the sable to chin but with steel complicating things.

 

[LPH_NY]

Maybe the kit isn't really siamese... It's not white. It's not developing like a himi (had 2 litters of himis in the last 5 months to compare to). It's an ivory-white color with a gray cast on the ears, legs, hind-quarters and face...

If it's not siamese, then what is most likely?

 

[Dood]

Picture is not showing up for me :shrug:

 

[LPH_NY]

This pic isn't the best for showing the gray cast.... I'll try for a better one tomorrow, at which point the buns will be 10 days old. Sable point? I find the color names kind of confusing still. They are satins, if that makes any difference. The others in the litter look to be torts and blacks. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:22 pm __________ <br /><br /> I don't know why I had it set to private, but it should be fixed now...

 

[Dood]

Picture is not showing up for me :shrug:

What your describing sounds like a frosty but that is not possible from a black tort and chocolate - perhaps a sallander or sable point

 

[LPH_NY]

One more try... If it doesn't show up, I might have to wait til tomorrow to fix it. I hope it does.

 

[Dood]

Sorry, still no picture

 

[akane]

It's not regular sable. A black sable furs in a dark smokey blue and then sheds it back out to the "sepia brown" that is always in the color descriptions. I would say it has nonextension markings. This site has a lot of shaded comparison pictures http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-co ... aded.shtml .

Within a few weeks the early color pattern should start to show. There is a certain shading down the sides that precedes agouti ticking and a similar, more swirling pattern that shows without ticking on a young nonextension that is not sable point. Sable points never develop a side pattern and just start furring white through the body. A sable of any basic color (black, blue, chocolate, lilac) also doesn't have a pattern but a solid body color that is pretty much one color lighter than it would start out if it wasn't sable.

 

[Dood]

I still don't get a picture, is it a problem on my end ?

 

[TwoAcreDream]

I see the picture in 2 different posts.
Nice colors

It looks to me like the points may darken up.
Hard to tell when kits are so little though.

I had a mini lop that was born pure white. Plan was to keep
it as a breeding animal if it was a female. It turned out to
be a male and got darker points on it's ears and feet. I
did end up selling up recently as a pet.

 

[LPH_NY]

Ok... so maybe this thread should really be a "please ID this kit color for me" instead! I know I'm impatient... I'm just excited to have new colors to experience. So... here are some pics from today. Please help me figure out the color of this kit?

That's the whole litter in a basket in a bedroom with a flash.

This is a closeup of the kit in question next to a tort sibling

And this is a closeup of the kit in question that shows the contrast of the lower body. The lighting is not natural, though... it's a dim bedroom and I used a flash, but the picture makes the kit appear more creamy than it is in person.

edited to add this one of the litter in a window with natural lighting

 

[Zinnia]

Looks like a Sallander to me. Pretty when there's just the one in such a colorful group. I'm overloaded with these guys from two of my does (so they're starting to look like rats to me). :lol:

Check this thread...looks like your kit post230103.html

__________ Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:12 pm __________

Edited... Deleted the part where my brain stopped working, so I won't confuse anyone! Sorry. :roll:
Zinnia

 

[akane]

Sallander is a self. Basically it's a self frosty/ermine so the chocolate wouldn't have to be a self chin. One parent just needs to carry chin and the chocolate needs to carry nonextension. They would be chocolate doe aabbC*D*Ee and tort buck aaB*C*D*ee with the second C locus gene consisting of at least one carrying chin and one carrying anything but full color. Then the offspring comes out aaBbchd*D*ee (possible chocolate sallander though that would be bb instead). It could also be a seal point still but if there hasn't been a sable in the litters and if these are at all related to the rest of the rabbits then chin is present in the herd and more likely than sable.