Ivermectin Info-- toxicity in rabbits included

[Frosted Rabbits]

http://www.drugs.com/mmx/ivermectin.html

Some time ago, I bought a bunch of rabbits that were being treated monthly, with Ivermectin. I, and another person, suspected that the ivermectin may have been responsible for the failure of the does to reproduce normally.

Apparently, though the half life of Ivermectin is 12-18 hours, the life of it's metabolites can be a very long time--possible a year. And ivermectin is a "monster maker' if given in a high enough dose during pregnancy-- this can explain a lot of the 'misses' that Saloma and I had.

 

[Anntann]

treated monthly? good lord. Ivermectin kills off parasites...and the way it does it is my paralyzing them...if you treat an animal that eats it's own bodily secretions for nutrition...well.....

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

treated monthly? good lord. Ivermectin kills off parasites...and the way it does it is my paralyzing them...if you treat an animal that eats it's own bodily secretions for nutrition...well.....

The thing that gets me is this-- the 'effects' can last up to a year--so what does that say for withdrawal periods? As far as I ma concerned-- those withdrawal periods are now null and void. Yes, metabolized through the liver, so present in the feces--
So,I'll use it for HW prevention, basic worming of dog and cats-- but rethinking the whole use of it as a 'fix' for any new bunnies that come into the rabbitry--

 

[arachyd]

I believe any treatment given needs to be a SENSIBLE treatment based on a need for it or a situation where there is a real risk of the animal picking up internal parasites and the like. Good husbandry greatly lowers that risk. I can't think of any situation that would warrant a monthly treatment of ingestion or injection of Ivermectin in rabbits. Any topical treatment should be done on an as-needed basis for mites and similar external parasites. I don't believe in treating frequently "just in case".

 

[ottersatin]

I agree with arachyd:
That rabbits should not be prophylactic[ally] treated.
This does nothing but produce a weak rabbit with
extremely poor resistance to disease.
Any rabbit that one feels requires constant medication
is not one that should be retained for breeding!
In fact there should be no room in the rabbitry as the cage space and feed
could be better used to support a "healthy" Rabbit.
As always, JMPO.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I di d not know about the 'monthly' treatments untillthe sale had been finalized-- Saloma had been talking with a couple of the kids---- she gleaned some information from them,, and then told me on the way home about "WHY" the rabbits were for sale-- reproductive issues-- we made the connection after a whole bunch of misses-- and prematurely sized litters. So yeah-- Ivermectin is off the list for for me-- for rabbit use unless it is a pet that will not be bred-- withan extended life of the emtabolized parts of the drug-- it violates the 'organic' or 'natural' policies that so many of us have in place...

 

[arachyd]

I'd be interested in knowing how many weeks or months it takes for them to successfully deliver a healthy litter after being off the monthly doses of Ivermectin (if ever).

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I'd be interested in knowing how many weeks or months it takes for them to successfully deliver a healthy litter after being off the monthly doses of Ivermectin (if ever).

I never was able to figure that out-- over a year later-- those that survived were still not producing anything but rabbit raisins. The palomino buck never reached full size, the champagnes turned out to be older than the papers indicated-- a dutch produced a litter- but they were premature in weight. Her daughter never produced anything. I wrote it off as a bad purchase-- never again buy a rabbit from a home schooled kid that doesn't even belong to 4-H. A red flag should have popped up for me when he had no idea of what a 'typhoid mary' type carrier would be...

 

[akane]

When you have livestock on the ground deworming with something is pretty much a requirement. Husbandry can lower that requirement but you still usually hit your limit eventually if the land is not given a complete break. Nothing effective is totally safe. Some risks have to be taken. Even herbal treatments for parasites can kill or cause abortion. In fact they are even more likely to cause side effects when used in a high enough amount to fully kill all the parasites than our refined chemicals produced for that purpose.

For our colony rabbits every 6 months of ivermectin has been effective so far. For our current number of horses every 4 months with a dewormer (dewormer chemicals are rotated) is necessary. When we had more than twice as many horses on the same pasture every other month was required. We still raised foals fine.

Raising herd/pasture animals organically often requires far more land, pen space, cleaning/dragging of manure, and rotation of pastures or pens to interrupt the lifecycle of the parasites. I've heard from people who butchered organically raised animals who were kept under the same confinement as animals treated with chemical dewormers and they said they will never be able to eat organic meat again after what they saw. The animals were even treated with organic pesticides and dewormers but these tend to be better preventatives than actual treatments for existing parasites and still require extra measures be taken to lessen parasite loads. Indoor colony raising may not be sustainable 100% organically over many years partially for this reason. Most indoor colonies don't have multiple separate pens which can be kept empty while being treated to let the parasites die off and rotate the rabbits in to. Large outdoor colonies may have the space needed to keep parasites from being a visible issue in the rabbit's lifetime but animals still often benefit from occasional deworming.

Personally I'm more than happy to treat my animals with a logical amount of chemical treatments even if I'm otherwise raising them organic. I find the potential health risks of proper deworming while taking other steps to reduce parasite load to be negligible. I have never heard of any reproductive or health issues from large livestock that are regularly dewormed which is standard practice and I have heard of rabbits even in cages suffering parasite loads so heavy they died when treated with a normal amount of dewormer. That means they had so many parasites the number that died off was enough to damage internal organs. Not even cage rabbits are completely safe. It's kind of like looking at everything that could cause cancer. It turns out nearly everything could if used in excess but we can't avoid everything. Even some of the things that prevent cancer in small amounts cause other types of cancer or other health issues in large amounts. We just have to use things in logical amounts as required and we don't see problems. The all or nothing approach to life doesn't usually work out too well in the end. While you are avoiding one problem you run smack in to the opposite.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Akane
every species of animal has a healthy 'parasite load'-- That means that some parasites exist in or in the animal-- but not to the great numbers to make the host animal sick, The Host animal's immune system needs to be healthy enough to keep the parasite load within the safe limits. Of course, any stressed animal will have it's immune system falter, permitting the parasite numbers to increase.
Yes-- pastured animals are exposed to different varieties and numbers of parasites, One of the ways to control some parasites is by the pasturing of multiple species with different grazing habits together or in succession. I am all for having chickens and guineafowl in large animal pastures to break up the manure piles almost immediately. Of course, pasturing rabbits is a bit trickier-- one MUST move them very frequently-- and colony raised rabbits, if on soil, MSUT have a large enough area that they do not sour the soil-- and they too, need to have alternate colonoy areas, to permit soils to heal and new forage to grow. Colonies on hard surfaces need bedding that is frequently changed. At one point in my life-- I had 12 large adult dogs living in my house-- with three children and a cat.I heard through the grapevine that my ex was ragging on his new wife, because even though they had only two beagles-- how come she could not keep the house flea free the way I could?

Parasites and other little nasties are all a part of Nature-- keeping things in balance is the important thing to remember-- balance leads to harmony and health. Very few people realize that ALL mammals carry mange mites in their skin--that all it takes is some sort of stress to let the mites take over... Managed intensive grazing practices help ensure a pasture is not being overworked or overstressed--a pasture may be able to support 3 Animal Units in the spring and early fall, but less than i/2 animal unit in the winter, and only 2 in the summer. OIt is all a amntter of balance...

 

[arachyd]

A 6-month treatment would definitely be more reasonable. I wonder if the rabbits were started on Ivermectin while young enough that their reproductive organs were still forming. That could have a negative result that would linger long after treatment ended.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

A 6-month treatment would definitely be more reasonable. I wonder if the rabbits were started on Ivermectin while young enough that their reproductive organs were still forming. That could have a negative result that would linger long after treatment ended.

The younger rabbits were probably getting ivermectin 'in utero'- seems the kid had a recurring ear mite issue- and I would be willing to bet, that the large animal vet may have very well given the kid an incorrect dosage-- I am not going to worry too much about it now-- I am now better armed with ivermectin information, and decided a coupe years ago, it did not have a place for routine use in my rabbitry.

there is a dairy farmer nearby, who maintains two dairy herds-- one is certified organic-- but if he needs to treat a member of the organic herd-- he moves it over to the 'conventional' herd so that he is not out a cow! He is actually profiting from this maintenance of two , smaller dairy herds. And yes-- he has TWO pasture areas, TWO housing barns, TWO milking parlors so that the milk is never mixed.