Is silver fox a "breed type" or just a color?

[dayna]

I have a doe that looks JUST like a SF. She's half Champagne D'Argent and half chocolate lop NZ mutt.

I was looking at all the aspects and frankly I feel like she looks just like one.

So is it an actual breed like the Champagnes or is it a color pattern like "broken" or "gold tipped steel".

 

[Nyctra]

Pretty sure Silver Fox is a breed. XD
I suppose the color could be called silvered black/chocolate/fawn/whatever. I have some silvered GT steels from Cal x NZ mixes. :?

 

[phillinley]

It's a breed. Stroke your rabbits fur from tail to head. Does it stay standing straight up until you stroke it back in place? I'm going to assume the answer is no to that, because that's a fur type unique to the Silver Fox breed. It isn't uncommon for lightly silvered argents to look like silver fox, and vice versa. I've seen multiple fox at the tables that were faulted because they were too heavily silvered making them look more like champagnes.

 

[Dood]

:yeahthat:

BUT

To most people the colour is the important part. I bet many silver fox offered for sale don't have the 1 1/2 inch long fur or unique characteristics of non roll back or fly back fur but are black rabbits with a silver gene or two.

I had the same problem when i was looking for AmChins. People get a chinchilla coloured kit in the litter and automatically give it a breed name without considering the SOP and the other qualities that make an AmChin more than just a colour.

Although most people don't even realize rabbits have breed standards :groooan:

 

[skysthelimit]

This would be my reason for not sending out SF looking mixed breeds, or any that lack those qualities into the world. A Rex furred meat rabbit is Rex by definition, because the fur defines the breed. Silver Fox has silvering distribution, body type, fur length, texture, stand up fur, and even those ears don't quite lay on the head the way my other breeds with long upright ears do.

 

[Peach]

Silver Fox is also a color Mini Lops actually do come in Silver Fox! BOB @ Convention was a Silver Fox Mini Lop rabbit in 2010? Generally, Silver Fox is the breed itself. When I had a Champ x babies, one of the babies looked like a Silver Fox o.o It seems like making your own "Silver Fox" would be easy, just wouldn't breed true

 

[phillinley]

You can call that color silver fox, but it's really just silver. There are three breeds that start off all black and grow in an even silvering: Silver, Silver Fox and Champagne. Those three are all entirely different fur and body types, but they all silver. That's all your Lops are doing is silvering. Making your own "silver fox" is not as easy as just throwing to other breeds together and getting the silvering. You've got a silvered rabbit, not a silver fox rabbit. The stand up coat just doesn't pop up from two separate breeds.

Silver Fox is also a color Mini Lops actually do come in Silver Fox! BOB @ Convention was a Silver Fox Mini Lop rabbit in 2010? Generally, Silver Fox is the breed itself. When I had a Champ x babies, one of the babies looked like a Silver Fox o.o It seems like making your own "Silver Fox" would be easy, just wouldn't breed true

 

[Secuono]

:yeahthat:

BUT

To most people the colour is the important part. I bet many silver fox offered for sale don't have the 1 1/2 inch long fur or unique characteristics of non roll back or fly back fur but are black rabbits with a silver gene or two.

UGH, I hate it when people sell a terribly weak or overly silvered fox or one with sleek hair and not a coat that stands!! My first foxes had none of the issues every other breeder seems to have now! I'm sick of all the crappy coats, random colors and now pinched hips.


Silver Fox is a breed, shows go by looks, so some don't care as long as it looks very similar and can be passed as one....Other rabbits that have the silvering, but are not pure Fox are only "silvered mutts", nothing more.

I also cannot stand anyone who goes around saying "rare, heritage, endangered" and so on. Many of those people mix and breed w/e quality of Fox just to get more to have for sale. Now we have tons of junk SF all over the place and crazy arguments on SF groups.

 

[Zass]

It might look like a fox when compared to pictures, but I bet if I took her pelt off and laid it next to a silver fox pelt you would see the difference!

 

[Southbound_SF]

Silver Fox is also a color Mini Lops actually do come in Silver Fox! BOB @ Convention was a Silver Fox Mini Lop rabbit in 2010?

Oh man, I wish people wouldn't use the words that way. It'll just confuse things. Silver Fox is a breed and should not be used to mean anything else.

Mutts, no matter how pretty, also shouldn't be sold as any breed, much less using the term "purebred" (though I will allow for outcrossing, but when you sell a pedigreed rabbit, those animals should have been breeding true to standard for EVERY generation on the ped).


SB

 

[dayna]

Wow I had no idea people were so passionate about this subject! lol Kinda reminds me of some dog forums!

Thanks for the education.

And for the record, I would never sell a mutt as a pure breed. I was just curious because my half champagne doe looks like a silver fox.

 

[skysthelimit]

A year ago I was at a show where a judge awarded BOB to a SF that was so heavily Silvered it look like a Champagne. Except it had stand up fur. Even though it looked like a Champagne, it was just a heavy silvered Fox.

I get passionate because I bought what I wanted, because I liked it the way it was, and I expect it to produce what it is, true and like it should. I would not be happy to get something that is marketed as something it truly is not, just because it looks like it might be. When I sell pelts, I tell them it's Silver Fox rabbit fur, not an actual Fox fur. Not the same thing, no matter how close it looks. Don't mean to be the breed patrol, but I figure why do anything I'm not passionate about?

 

[Zass]

When I sell pelts, I tell them it's Silver Fox rabbit fur, not an actual Fox fur. Not the same thing, no matter how close it looks.

What I was referring to is the champagne mix fur compared to the silver fox rabbit fur.
Silver fox rabbit fur looks different on the rabbit, but it looks REALLY special off the rabbit. I don't think any mix breed would ever get close!

 

[Peach]

Silver Fox is also a color Mini Lops actually do come in Silver Fox! BOB @ Convention was a Silver Fox Mini Lop rabbit in 2010?

Oh man, I wish people wouldn't use the words that way. It'll just confuse things. Silver Fox is a breed and should not be used to mean anything else.

Mutts, no matter how pretty, also shouldn't be sold as any breed, much less using the term "purebred" (though I will allow for outcrossing, but when you sell a pedigreed rabbit, those animals should have been breeding true to standard for EVERY generation on the ped).


SB

Visit the SOP on page 163, it is listed as Silver/ Silver Fox. So looks like it can go both ways after all.

__________ Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:21 pm __________

You can call that color silver fox, but it's really just silver. There are three breeds that start off all black and grow in an even silvering: Silver, Silver Fox and Champagne. Those three are all entirely different fur and body types, but they all silver. That's all your Lops are doing is silvering. Making your own "silver fox" is not as easy as just throwing to other breeds together and getting the silvering. You've got a silvered rabbit, not a silver fox rabbit. The stand up coat just doesn't pop up from two separate breeds.

Silver Fox is also a color Mini Lops actually do come in Silver Fox! BOB @ Convention was a Silver Fox Mini Lop rabbit in 2010? Generally, Silver Fox is the breed itself. When I had a Champ x babies, one of the babies looked like a Silver Fox o.o It seems like making your own "Silver Fox" would be easy, just wouldn't breed true

I'm not saying to go out and breed mixes (yes those champ x were eaten because I have no interest in producing something that couldn't breed true) , however it seems like many are jumping the gun on this one and digging in their claws on this discussion.

 

[Southbound_SF]

Visit the SOP on page 163, it is listed as Silver/ Silver Fox. So looks like it can go both ways after all.

How about that! Well, I still don't have to like it!


SB

 

[dayna]

I do breed mixes. And frankly I love them! I keep all the good tempered ones and eat the poorly tempered ones. That has resulted in very easy to process meat rabbits. Whenever a group of young rabbits sees me they come a running for treats and pets.

I do occasionally sell one as a pet. Like maybe one every other litter. However, when they ask "what type of rabbit is this" I say it's a meat mutt, all different breeds mixed together.

I was just curious about a color is all.<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:51 pm __________<br /><br />I will refer to her as a "silvered meat mutt".

 

[phillinley]

Are there any silver fox raisers on the big island? If not, we should have brought some over while we are here

 

[skysthelimit]

When I sell pelts, I tell them it's Silver Fox rabbit fur, not an actual Fox fur. Not the same thing, no matter how close it looks.

What I was referring to is the champagne mix fur compared to the silver fox rabbit fur.
Silver fox rabbit fur looks different on the rabbit, but it looks REALLY special off the rabbit. I don't think any mix breed would ever get close!

I mean when you say Silver Fox to a fur person, they think you have Fox fur, so I am careful, that even though the breed was created to mimic the Fox, to say that it is really not fox fur, it is a rabbit breed called Silver Fox. It's funny when I tell people I raise Silver Fox, and they think I raise Foxes. Many people don't even know there are more rabbit breeds than Mini Rex and Holland Lops. I know I didn't when I started out.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

This is a very big ongoing problem in ANY colour... as in if a large rabbit is albino it is automatically called a NZW or if something has himi markings its automatically called a Californian.. a small dwarf rabbit is always called a netherland.. and on and on..

 

[Zass]

When I sell pelts, I tell them it's Silver Fox rabbit fur, not an actual Fox fur. Not the same thing, no matter how close it looks.

What I was referring to is the champagne mix fur compared to the silver fox rabbit fur.
Silver fox rabbit fur looks different on the rabbit, but it looks REALLY special off the rabbit. I don't think any mix breed would ever get close!

I mean when you say Silver Fox to a fur person, they think you have Fox fur, so I am careful, that even though the breed was created to mimic the Fox, to say that it is really not fox fur, it is a rabbit breed called Silver Fox. It's funny when I tell people I raise Silver Fox, and they think I raise Foxes. Many people don't even know there are more rabbit breeds than Mini Rex and Holland Lops. I know I didn't when I started out.

It gets even more confusing when you sell it overseas, because most other countries refer to silver martins as silver fox rabbits, and have never heard of our breed. I had one person, from the Netherlands, tell me my rabbit looked like a "bad zilver". (the z was intentional there)