Intro & Does this sound ok for a rabbitry plan?

[BlueMoods]

I agree, don't get hung up on the ideal schedule. You might have a doe the while she produces great kits, maternity is hard on her so, you will want to give her a few weeks rest between weaning and mating again. (My M&M is like that.) Your strain may not be to weight until 10 or 12 weeks. Youre better off having more does and giving them a rest form weaning to mating again. You also have weather to consider. Unless you have the rabbits indoors and climate controlled, it can be too hot or too cold for breeding.

I have 5 does, I breed in pairs (for fostering reasons) and breed a week apart. I had six does but, had to retire on for this season and, wanted new blood so, I have 5 to start the rotation and one more that will be ready to add in on the next rotation so, will have one doe that has to kindle out of sync with any others once this year but, she is a proven doe and will have 6-8 kits and be fine. She will sync with the new doe next round (in case the new one need some foster off, I know my old doe will take any kits I give her - she has fostered for me several times. One of those does that sort of give you the "Okay, whatever you say." routine over anything you do to or ask of her.

 

[Comet007]

I appreciate all the input here - and keeping it real!

This was my starting plan - with a 2 week break from weaning to re-breeding for the does. I've spoken with a few breeders up here in WA, as well as visited their websites. I'm hoping to get NZ reds (I think that's right) and maybe one white. I'm still learning, but I think I could also breed a NZ Red with a California? Anyway - these are my targets. From what I've heard from the breeders, 4-8 litters per year (depending on which one I was talking to), so I think 5 is a good goal, but I won't be disappointed with less. Frankly, in the first year or two I will be happy with whatever I get, because it's such a learning process! I will watch the does and try to adjust my plan for the variables: how long they nurse, how long for the kits to reach the desired size (I was told that 8-10 weeks will be great for these breeds, especially if I can get rabbits from the people I talked to!), etc. And of course I will have to look at the breeding does to see how they fare through kindling and nursing.

I was told by breeders with these rabbits that they are getting 6 or more litters per year, and I agree, that sounds like a lot! I really want to have the first litters processed to the freezer before the next litter comes along so that we can focus our energy on EITHER raising the fryers or tending and watching the kits. We definitely want to be raising healthy and happy rabbits, and enjoy the experience and the wonder of the whole process - not just trying to be a meat factory!

We have now completely changed our rabbitry design, based on the fabulous feedback from all of you on here, as well as my other reading and conversations with breeders.

Now we are planning to build an 8x10 shed, stealing the design idea from this bunny barn that someone posted here a while back: miss-m-s-new-new-bunnybarn-pic-heavy-t9839.html?hilit=louisiana

Ours will be a bit different - the open wall (with chicken netting) will be on one of the 8' ends and we will have a 2' roof overhang on all sides. We're going to use clear corrugated roofing to let some light in and have a bit less than 1/4" spacing between all the cedar fence boards. We will also have rolled up sheet plastic at the outside top of each wall that can be rolled down and secured at the bottom when we get those 45 mph winds with rain so water won't be blown into the rabbits.

We have decided to go with four cages, all 30" deep by 48" wide. The buck will be spoiled. Both breeders told me that I can keep the litters with the doe up to 12 weeks. We are planning to process them by 10 weeks max, but past that if they still need to grow we will move them to the 4th cage that will be sitting empty. Alternatively, if they ever seem crowded we can always move all the doelings or bucklings from the two litters and put them into the 4th empty cage. Also, when the time comes to hold back a doe to replace a breeder we can keep them in the 4th cage.

Another thing we could do is use the 4th cage for another breeder doe and her kits if we find that we don't get enough meat from just two. I think there's a lot of flexibility built in with having the larger cages and getting a 4th empty one.

I know this is a small plan, but we really want to keep it reasonable and not get carried away. Our plan is to just provide our own meat, some for the pups would be bonus, and of course have the fertilizer and worm bed! I don't think we'll be giving any rabbit away, though!

We have so many meat choices here - with the organic pork and chicken we buy (for now), fish & crab that my husband catches (probably 40 dinners a year right there!), plus clams a few times a year. Plus we will still buy some red meat to eat every once in a while.

 

[desertcat]

Just a thought about new babies vs fryers. We have Cali & mutt does in the meat herd. The babies are sooooo adorable until about 8 weeks. And then they turn into the rabbit equivalent of meat chickens They are no longer cute little fuzzies, they are nasty, voracious fertilizer machines!

Most of our does have 5-10 in a litter, so I breed by pairs. When the first pair kindles, I breed the 2nd pair. We have 4 pairs & usually wean around 4 weeks, so the does get a bit of a break and the freezer stays full.

On the topic of full freezers, you may find that rabbit is a better substitute for chicken than for beef. The flavor & texture is more similar, as are cooking techniques.

And, yes, I think you can call yourselves homesteaders!

 

[skysthelimit]

I would add a third doe or plan to keep a doe back from a successful breeding.

 

[Ramjet]

I would add a third doe or plan to keep a doe back from a successful breeding.

I would add a second 8x10 shed full of cages .... cause you never know when Rabbitosis Acquiritosos will strike!!!

@ Comet007 don't forget about a quarantine cage / area.

 

[Comet007]

Just a thought about new babies vs fryers. We have Cali & mutt does in the meat herd. The babies are sooooo adorable until about 8 weeks. And then they turn into the rabbit equivalent of meat chickens They are no longer cute little fuzzies, they are nasty, voracious fertilizer machines!

Most of our does have 5-10 in a litter, so I breed by pairs. When the first pair kindles, I breed the 2nd pair. We have 4 pairs & usually wean around 4 weeks, so the does get a bit of a break and the freezer stays full.

On the topic of full freezers, you may find that rabbit is a better substitute for chicken than for beef. The flavor & texture is more similar, as are cooking techniques.

And, yes, I think you can call yourselves homesteaders!

This is great info, thanks! From everything I've read you're right about substituting the rabbit for chicken rather than beef. For instance, meatloaf just wouldn't be the same with rabbit - and we are never without it in the freezer - we usually make enough for 4-6 dinners at one time and freeze. I'm thinking we could buy an 1/8th instead of a 1/4 beef - the downside is that we can't specify package sizes. I believe we can have the roasts that we don't like to eat ground to burger though, so that might be an option. I just hate big 1 pound steak packages, since that could be 2 meals for just the two of us! Maybe we need to find someone to share the 1/4 with.

Some recipes that I sometimes use beef OR chicken - like my Italian pasta bake, I think rabbit would work. Also, burrito pie (think lasagna layers of burrito fixings), also chili and lunch burritos I think would be fine. We are going to need a better meat grinder. Also, we make our own pepperoni and it works with ANY kind of ground meat - we've even done it with duck! It's an easy, no casing recipe, and tastes wonderful with chicken, beef or pork so I think rabbit will be great as well.

__________ Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:07 pm __________

I would add a third doe or plan to keep a doe back from a successful breeding.

I would add a second 8x10 shed full of cages .... cause you never know when Rabbitosis Acquiritosos will strike!!!

@ Comet007 don't forget about a quarantine cage / area.

I'm totally laughing at the second shed idea… I went out by myself this morning to look at where DH plans to put the shed and I was totally thinking we have room for another! And still PLENTY of space for laying hens and a place for "project birds" for meat down the road…

I will play this close to the vest, DH works better if I hit him with my plans slowly! I've just about got him agreeing to some laying hens next year, and he's mulling the idea of skinning the chickens if we do some project birds for meat. He's done that with a goose before, so why not? We almost never eat the skin anyway. Whenever I talk to him about chickens for meat, I call them "project birds" because we just have to do them once a year for 2-3 months, then the freezer would be full, and we wouldn't be caring for a ton at one time!

As for quarantine, we have a dog crate that is I think 18"x24" and if we could put that in the garage when the need arises for it. We could also always take one of the empty cages and move it into the garage. Assuming we have any that stay empty!

 

[Zass]

mmm, comet007, you might have to add to the rabbit recipes section!

The only thing I have to say about 48X30 in cages...is make sure you can reach to the back! If you have longer arms or large cage doors(that you can lean into) this can work well, but if you have shorter arms and smaller cage doors you might find catching those little buns quite a hassle

 

[Comet007]

I would add a third doe or plan to keep a doe back from a successful breeding.

I've already revised my cage plan AGAIN since this morning! It occurred to me that the shed will be 10' deep and we were just going to put 8' of cages on each side with a little space between each of the cages. I'm now toying with doing two 48"x30" deep cages for the breeding does on one side of the shed, and three 36"x30" cages for the buck, one "extra" cage for holding back a doe, and one "extra" cage that just happens to have baby saver wire around the bottom. :lol: This way we have a third breeding cage if we find we need three does for sufficient meat. This is still only 9' of cages with a foot for putting a bit of space between the cages if he wants. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:19 pm __________ <br /><br />

mmm, comet007, you might have to add to the rabbit recipes section!

The only thing I have to say about 48X30 in cages...is make sure you can reach to the back! If you have longer arms or large cage doors(that you can lean into) this can work well, but if you have shorter arms and smaller cage doors you might find catching those little buns quite a hassle

DH is 6'4", so he's long and lanky. We measured my arm from pit to fingertip and it's only 24" long!!! We are planning to have the doors centered on the cages, and about 16" high and I think 14" wide. That makes the sides of the cages about 17" from the edges of the door. I could get into corners in a pinch, but he might end up having to do more of the reaching!

 

[Dood]

I have a 10 x 10 bunny barn and it easily fits twelve 36 x 30 cages

2 rows/tiers with 3 in each row along the two sides of the wall

 

[Comet007]

I have a 10 x 10 bunny barn and it easily fits twelve 36 x 30 cages

2 rows/tiers with 3 in each row along the two sides of the wall

That sounds great! We are going to have worm beds under ours, so only one tier to start! At least that's the plan… which I know will keep changing until we buy our materials!

 

[Ramjet]

I have a 10 x 10 bunny barn and it easily fits twelve 36 x 30 cages

2 rows/tiers with 3 in each row along the two sides of the wall

That sounds great! We are going to have worm beds under ours, so only one tier to start! At least that's the plan… which I know will keep changing until we buy our materials!

I have a two tiered system in my shed that allows for all waste to drop to the ground .... the top row slides forward for access & back otherwise. Very efficient in its use of space & no droppings to clean off of slant boards.

I posted pictures of it somewhere .... I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Here it is , in this thread: thinking-of-a-new-shed-barn-t19642-15.html

 

[Comet007]

I have a 10 x 10 bunny barn and it easily fits twelve 36 x 30 cages

2 rows/tiers with 3 in each row along the two sides of the wall

That sounds great! We are going to have worm beds under ours, so only one tier to start! At least that's the plan… which I know will keep changing until we buy our materials!

I have a two tiered system in my shed that allows for all waste to drop to the ground .... the top row slides forward for access & back otherwise. Very efficient in its use of space & no droppings to clean off of slant boards.

I posted pictures of it somewhere .... I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Here it is , in this thread: thinking-of-a-new-shed-barn-t19642-15.html

That looks ingenious! Our little shed will only be 8' wide, though, with a row of 30" deep cages on each side! I do think that we could later add a second level of cages if we do one of those metal slant boards under the top row, which would direct all waste to the back and then down into the worm beds below. Only problem there is that we are going to hang the cages on the wall of the shed and then have wires suspending from the ceiling to support them. I'm sure we could work around it should necessity dictate.

Really, if we love doing the rabbits, building a second shed would be workable. We just priced all the parts and pieces for the shed, and it came to $490.65 + tax. We forgot to price 16 2x4's, so with those and tax we'll probably be in the $600-620 range for the shed? And I just ordered our 5 cages, that came to $367.52 with shipping - but we ordered them from Klubertanz and got the ones with the GAW, and 3 of the cages have baby wire. (Can you tell I'm already thinking of a third breeder doe??)

So $1,000 down, plus probably $100-120 for our starter rabbits, plus accessories at about $200-300… plus feed. I don't think we'll be breaking even this year! :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop: :bunnyhop:

But we'll sure have some fun!

 

[Ramjet]

That looks ingenious! Our little shed will only be 8' wide, though, with a row of 30" deep cages on each side! I do think that we could later add a second level of cages if we do one of those metal slant boards under the top row, which would direct all waste to the back and then down into the worm beds below. Only problem there is that we are going to hang the cages on the wall of the shed and then have wires suspending from the ceiling to support them. I'm sure we could work around it should necessity dictate.

My shed is only 8x10 (inside dimensions) with two rows of cages , each has 2x 36x30 and 2x 24x30 cages. (perfect fit).

My first design included slant boards to direct waste where I wanted it .... They work ... kinda. But you really have to stay on top of their cleaning and even then they are pretty unsanitary (my opinion) and a breeding ground for bacteria & flies. Its really no fun cleaning those things every day ... All of the above factored into my coming up with an alternative.
I have since moved my original pen to a place where I can allow waste to go directly to the ground and removed the slant boards. Its now used as a quarantine / overflow a good distance away from the main herd.

 

[Comet007]

My shed is only 8x10 (inside dimensions) with two rows of cages , each has 2x 36x30 and 2x 24x30 cages. (perfect fit).

My first design included slant boards to direct waste where I wanted it .... They work ... kinda. But you really have to stay on top of their cleaning and even then they are pretty unsanitary (my opinion) and a breeding ground for bacteria & flies. Its really no fun cleaning those things every day ... All of the above factored into my coming up with an alternative.
I have since moved my original pen to a place where I can allow waste to go directly to the ground and removed the slant boards. Its now used as a quarantine / overflow a good distance away from the main herd.

I must be totally confused about what I saw in your pictures - it looked to me like your top level of cages was behind the lower level of cages - so their "stuff" falls to the ground as well. If your cages are 30" deep that would be 5 feet.

Do you mean that you have two VERTICAL rows? As in one upper and one lower? We have two separate rows planned, one to the left when you walk in and one to the right side, so with 30" deep cages it gives us a 3' aisle down the middle of the rows of cages.

 

[Ramjet]

I must be totally confused about what I saw in your pictures - it looked to me like your top level of cages was behind the lower level of cages - so their "stuff" falls to the ground as well. If your cages are 30" deep that would be 5 feet.

Do you mean that you have to VERTICAL rows? As in one upper and one lower? We have two separate rows planned, one to the left when you walk in and one to the right side, so with 30" deep cages it gives us a 3' aisle down the middle of the rows of cages.

It depends upon which image you are looking at , that top row isn't stationary ... It slides forward for access and then back in place at all other times to allow waste to fall to the ground.

Take a look at the images again (post #13) , the top image shows it in position to access the rabbits where the top row is directly "above" the bottom , the second shows it in its normal position where the waste can fall directly to the ground - the top row is "behind" the bottom.

Think of it as a chest of drawers .... accept when its open , its closed and when its closed , its open ?



I really wanted to do it with two rows front to back on each side rather than right to left but that meant a lot more work , closing in most of the front & the geometry would leave a lot of wasted space.



Either way , just trying to explain the pain in the rear that cleaning slant boards are on a daily basis.

There are a lot of things to take into consideration when designing a rabbitry. If I had more space , I'd likely do things a lot different - More like Grumpy with the top opening cages all at the same height. But with limited space , I had to get kinda creative , economical use of space and heat avoidance were my main criteria.

 

[Comet007]

That makes more sense - I understood the pictures when I saw them, but then I thought you were saying that you had two SETS of vertical stacking rows, in which case there would be no floor space! So in actuality you have the same available space as us, we are just planning on ours being more like a shed so we can have the two rows at the same height.

We're also planning on larger cages than what you have. We will have (2) cages that are 48x30 for the breeding doe's and (3) cages that are 36x30 (one of which will have baby saver wire) - one for the buck, and two as a safety net. We're thinking we could use one for holding back a doe, one for if we decide to have a third breeding doe. Or we could just use them to move kits into after they are weaned so everyone has more room. I'm sure that we will easily fill the two empty cages!

From what I've learned here and elsewhere, we don't really NEED to have the cages be so large, but we are planning on raising the larger commercial rabbits and we just felt better about giving them more space. Realistically we are not going to be setting up play yards for the rabbits to stretch their legs in, they will live entirely in these stationary cages.

 

[Zass]

From what I've learned here and elsewhere, we don't really NEED to have the cages be so large, but we are planning on raising the larger commercial rabbits and we just felt better about giving them more space. Realistically we are not going to be setting up play yards for the rabbits to stretch their legs in, they will live entirely in these stationary cages.

:yeahthat:

I share your philosophy. I do have a bunny tractor and a large exercise pen, but I don't have the time to get every rabbit into one of those every day, and in winter it's completely impossible.

There is also a risk of disease and parasites to take into consideration any time you have rabbits on the ground.

They don't seem to suffer at all for being in smaller cages, but I still feel happy about proving larger ones

 

[JessiL]

Sounds like you're on the right track!

BTW, I think that 5 litters a year should be very much do-able. We seem to be on track for 6-7 from our Americans (but not the Champagne d'Argent, they seemed to have decided to take the winter off, even the buck), and they don't seem to be slowing down. I rebreed the does when the kits are 3-4 weeks old, then wean the kits when the does are 2 weeks pregnant. Seems to work out just fine for everyone. The does look relieved to be alone for the first few days after weaning, but then they start to look lonely after they've rested up a bit - and they usually greet me the morning of the 28th day with a full haystache!

I do think my problems with my Champagnes this winter were at least partially due to my letting them get too fat. My Champagne buns seem able to live on air, especially the buck. I'd have him nice and slim by feeding only a few spoonfuls of pellets a day (and all the hay he wants), but then we'd head off for a weekend and whatever friend I could persuade to help out for the weekend would just fill up the feeders left and right. Just two days of that, and he balloons up into a chubby lad who can't be bothered to chase the does around his cage. It seems like lots of problems with breeding commercial-type rabbits stem from being too fat... so keep an eye on that!

Good luck, and enjoy the planning phase - and of course, the acquiring phase!

 

[Comet007]

Sounds like you're on the right track!

BTW, I think that 5 litters a year should be very much do-able. We seem to be on track for 6-7 from our Americans (but not the Champagne d'Argent, they seemed to have decided to take the winter off, even the buck), and they don't seem to be slowing down. I rebreed the does when the kits are 3-4 weeks old, then wean the kits when the does are 2 weeks pregnant. Seems to work out just fine for everyone. The does look relieved to be alone for the first few days after weaning, but then they start to look lonely after they've rested up a bit - and they usually greet me the morning of the 28th day with a full haystache!

I do think my problems with my Champagnes this winter were at least partially due to my letting them get too fat. My Champagne buns seem able to live on air, especially the buck. I'd have him nice and slim by feeding only a few spoonfuls of pellets a day (and all the hay he wants), but then we'd head off for a weekend and whatever friend I could persuade to help out for the weekend would just fill up the feeders left and right. Just two days of that, and he balloons up into a chubby lad who can't be bothered to chase the does around his cage. It seems like lots of problems with breeding commercial-type rabbits stem from being too fat... so keep an eye on that!

Good luck, and enjoy the planning phase - and of course, the acquiring phase!

That'a good to know about your breeding success! I am a little in love with the Champagne d'Argents - though I don't seem to be able to find any locally.

Good to know about the weight issues, too. I know what it's like to try to manage weight of a small animal. We have a rescue chihuahua (Comet, hence my username lol) - we never have liked this breed because so often they're such… brats is the nice word. But a little over 3 years ago the local shelter was going to send him back to a kill shelter in So Cal - he was so frail that no one wanted to chance adopting him because whoever had him before abandoning him had starved him almost to death, and he got mauled by the other dogs in the kennels so had stitches in both ears and his belly. He was only 4 lbs. 2 oz when we adopted him (est age 2 yrs!), and we had him to 6 lbs 3 oz after a month, and to the proper 7 pounds before the second month was out. We really only intended to get him healthy and then find him a good home IF we stumbled across one by chance. And yet here he is right now… on my lap lol, turns out he has the temperament of a Labrador! He is an incredible chow hound and always acts like he's starving. Last Fall when we went to put his winter fleece on him, the velcro straps wouldn't even TOUCH each other, much less overlap! He was up to 8 lb 4 oz I believe - Stout! We had to calculate healthy weight loss rates for his size (2 oz per week) and then moderate his food and treats to get him back down to 7 pounds! He is a chow hound, so he acted like we were killing him! Animals don't understand when we say "it's for your own good!" :shock:

Which leads me to wonder… if you have overweight rabbits, do you need to regulate how quickly you bring them down in weight?`

 

[skysthelimit]

Usually I just feed hay only for two weeks and they seem good to go.
The best thing to do is to regulate how they are fed to avoid getting fat. One of the reasons I started weaning early is the kits are free fed,and I didn't want the doe to get fat.