How do buyers react to line-breeding?

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bantambunnies

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I have never used line-breeding before, but I'm considering it. I'm wondering, though - how do potential buyers react to seeing the same rabbits more than once on a pedigree? In particular, a partial pedigree which is made up of only a few rabbits?
 
As long as you explain the reasons behind it (i.e. setting good traits, limiting the genetic roulette factor), there shouldn't be a problem.

If you sell to other rabbit breeders there shouldn't be any raised eyebrows at all.
 
Those who know and are experienced with Rabbits
would not question line-breeding.
How else would you perfect a particular breed/line?
Ottersatin. :eek:ldtimer:
 
I am more reassured as a buyer when a breeder shows me a pedigree and I see some names repeating on the page. ;) Only pet buyers and people who don't understand breeding would be upset, and even then most won't care much I don't think.
 
I've sold to people who, once explained, were just fine with it but I know there are others out there who just can't get passed the "incest" part of it and that's on them. I'm not going to sit there and try to convince someone to buy something as I don't make a living on them buying from me. I'll either sell or I'll eat it, one or the other :)
 
Honestly, I prefer to see linebreeding. That these rabbits were so good, the breeder wanted to use them again after seeing how the kits turned out makes me want to have rabbits related to them. And if I see a pedigree full of different names, it means that these rabbits were sold, and since breeders don't usually sell their best rabbits, that these rabbits were not descended from the best rabbits.
 
Personally... i Like line-breeding....... Providing the animal that appears multiple times is a Good ( if not Great) specimen of the breed. It really would not offer much in the way of improvement if the animal doubled up on was only mediocre in quality.

Having said that... an animal strictly used, for instance, in a production setting... might have Superior mothering or meat producing qualities. A Show animal would have Other qualities that the breeder might want to double up on.
 
Pet people I talk to do not know what line breeding is, as soon as they hear breeding "father to daughter" they seem deeply disturbed. If they saw it on a pedigree and it was 3 generations back, they might think the rabbit they are getting is Ok. But if the rabbit you are selling them is the product of a "father to daughter" they do not want it. Most of my friends, very educated people, do not understand that all purebred animals, especially ones with recessive traits like white coats, floppy ears, smooshed faces, at some point were very closely linebred and inbred. If I tell them I am planning on breeding my rabbit "Sebastian to his daughter" they get upset.
 
I get mixed reactions when I mention inbreeding with buyers. I only discuss it in person when they arrive to pick up the rabbit. I've not had a sale not go through because of it. I get a lot of funny faces over it.
 
The whole gamut of reactions is why I seldom sell anything. It doesn't help that locally there's a pair of 'breeders' that are vehemently vocal about how awful line breeding is and how they never ever breed closely EVER. They bring stock in 'from all over the country' and sell it on after getting a litter. They park at the local shows and sell tons of *meh* rabbits to JQP for prices I wouldn't ask for my quality stock.
 
I've had bad reactions from non-breeders. Those that breed, few bad but most don't care or think it is good. The ones that had bad reactions where miss informed or couldn't get over the father/daughter brother/sister issue, no matter the explanation. I've told people up front that if they don't like how I breed, don't bash me or my rabbits since they don't know how they are health/etc wise, don't even ask about purchasing, or go as far as purchase from me and then for whatever reason decide it really isn't okay as I'm sure they can find some one that doesn't do things the way I do that they like as there are many different ways to breed rabbits.
 
Pet buyers and new breeders often get upset and ask for completely unrelated pairs. It's just so ingrained in the US that inbreeding is bad. It's not even bad amongst humans. In australia they did a study involving something like 500 people where first cousins married. They did not have any deformed alien babies and apparently it's not uncommon to marry cousins several times in the same families. There actually is very little problem with it unlike what many people believe probably from some of the royal families that inbred for many generations beyond when a health issue was found. Experienced breeders understand linebreeding and you can often make new breeders understand. Pet buyers while I will send a pedigree along if they ask for it I don't otherwise mention it because they may not agree with the fact my now main buck is the grandson and son of my previous buck. They also tend to feel like the animals are less individualized when they are part of a list on a piece of paper. Then there is the fact most want to name a pet themselves and while I have no issue giving brand new "barn names" to even animals with papers the pet buyers don't seem to understand the concept. You don't have to call an animal by whatever name is on the pedigree. You just need to keep the pedigree as is for breeding or reselling. It's just easier not to let the pet buyers know much of the animal's background.
 
I know this post is a few months old but I just wanted to thank all those who posted answers to this question! This was a question on my mind today and you all answered it very well for me!
:thankyou:
 
I think what experience the buyer has with any purebred animals is going to have an impact. I've looked at Thoroughbred pedigrees for years and it's not uncommon to see the same name 3 or 4 times in 5 generations.... if it's a fantastic stallion or mare. If I see cuckoo for coco puffs who happened to run well if you had 8 people to help drag it onto the track on both sides of the pedigree, I'm not touching that one without some hands on time to see if those things have been magnified. I've seen the same things in dogs... if you've got a good stud and a good bitch, you get a nice puppy. If they have the same faults... well, there's a chance those are magnified too.

With any type of animal, I tend to look at a breeder's overall goals. I want to know what standard they're breeding towards, what issues or faults they've had to deal with, what they've improved on, what's their first priority, etc. Years ago I went to look at some puppies and one breeder got annoyed when I asked what health issues she'd seen in her line. She just kept wanting me to fall in love with the cuteness. I walked and ended up with another breeder who pulled out a few puppies, stacked them and showed me every flaw on each of them without being asked. She told me what relatives had passed and how and what to look out for health wise.

That was long winded. LOL... bottom line is, I want to know the reason you decided to breed that doe to that buck. Also, if I were planning to get into breeding myself, I'd want to know that I could talk to the breeder of my foundation stock about what to improve on.
 
I see/read tons of people upset about it. Really though its gonna happen with good breeding or you let em all together and they do it on their own. The animals dont care.

A good example i like to use is fainting goats. The whole breed is based on 1 buck and 5 does who all showed this odd thing of fainting when startled. Ya and how many are there now? A whole darn bunch of em. All from that handful of goats. Meaning lots of linebreeding and probably some experimental honest inbreeding.

Also i had found this awesome page and kept the link..
http://onpasture.com/2014/10/20/breedin ... -breeding/
 
Interesting article ohiogoatgirl!

On a different website, I'd posted about the accidental breeding of two fraternal cousins.
There was quite a bit of alarm. :roll:


There are those who believe that breeders are evil for terminally culling imperfect, neurotic, or unhealthy animals instead of treating them all with top dollar veterinary care.
People with that philosophy are unlikely to understand how inbreeding and line breeding can be used to make healthier and even more mentally sound animals.

It wasn't hard for me to understand. :? The ancestors of our rabbits lived and bred in colonies, where some amount of inbreeding would be inevitable, and were terminally culled by predators.

In essence, rabbit breeders are really just imitating nature. Except that we can take it farther. We can selectively inbreed to determine the carriers of harmful recessive traits and remove the carriers from the gene pool.

For example, my velveteen lop doe, Mucky has two copies of whatever gene is causing her kits to be born curly.
I feel this trait is undesirable in her breed because a percentage of kits have delayed fur growth after a molt, causing temporary baldness.
I'd determined that is most likely a recessive trait through test breeding and research on curl genetics. I can test breed my future velveteen bucks from her line back to her to determine if they also carry the gene. If they produce curly coated kits, indicating that they are carrying an invisible recessive copy of the gene, I can cull them. (In this instance, I'll probably be petting them out if they are healthy and friendly, instead of terminally culling.)

In nature, the naked kits would be less likely to survive, but...there is no mechanism to remove recessive carriers from the gene pool.

The great thing about rabbits is that recessives can usually be turned up with a lot less test breeding than is required with cattle or goats. With their larger litter size, you get a much larger genetic sample per breeding.
 
Proper line-breeding is the only way you will succeed in improving
the best points of your herd. You must use good breeding choices
as well as good culling decisions. By breeding cousins, aunts, uncles,
and grandparents you will more quickly achieve your goals.
Often even a Brother Sister cross will produce an excellent typed rabbit,
though it can just as well produce a totally unacceptable representative of the species.
You must use your best judgement as to whom you choose to retain as a future breeder.
Ottersatin. :eek:ldtimer:
 
ahhhh, line breeding! I've seen the good, the bad, and the very ugly side of that in rabbits!

I've known some breeders to breed back a show rabbits to different rabbits and then line breed to see what they are made of. It can show the positive and the negative in the bloodline which is what a lot of people want to know when they breed show bunnies.

Other people don't care because they are going in the pot anyway.

for me I test my lines to see if there is any weakness in the body and to see what color I'll get. All my choco. chinchillas are line bred for their color (not by me) but they have no health issues so I feel safe to breed to other none related rabbits to better the body.
 

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