How did lynx happen

[ida1416]

This is a bit of a genetics puzzle for me. I had a kit born to a doe that I was told was smoke pearl. I'll include a picture of her. The buck (who unfortunately passed away and I dont really have good pictures of him) was either a cinnamon or an orange agouti. He had a broken pattern so it was a little hard to tell. When I crossed him with an orange agouti I got kits that appear to be either orange or cinnamon, although they do have a bit of a dilute, almost cream look to them. I'll include a picture as well. Back to the smoke pearl cross, I was surprised to see a lynx (my favorite color!) pop out! There were also two broken chestnuts and a REW. Would this confirm he was a cinnamon? Are we certain that the doe is smoke pearl? So many questions I'm sorry to make your brains hurt

 

[eco2pia]

Oh man, I can never keep the color names straight...what is "smoke pearl"? what is "lynx"? off to google for translations...

Ok, near as I can tell:
lynx means lilac agouti (kit)
smoke pearl is a shaded blue rabbit (mom)
cinnamon is a black tort (possible dad)
Orange agouti is what it sounds like (possible dad)

This means both genes for the baby must be dilute, or dd, mom is dilute so no mystery there. Dad could have carried dilute. The baby is agouti, can't get that from mom, so dad must have contributed it--maybe he was orange agouti, not cinnamon. The real mystery here is where the chocolate gene is coming from, which is required for the lilac in lynx. Because the kit is lilac (bb), both mom and dad had to have a chocolate (b) gene to give, but since chocolate can hide under the black (B) gene in smoke pearl, there you go! You said there were rew, so I am guessing they both carry rew as well.

Edit: OOOOH, there are oranges in the kits as well--then mom carries non-extension! (e)

Best guess at mom genotype:
aa Bb chl c dd Ee

Best guess at dad genotype:
A_ Bb Cc Dd ee (plus En en for broken)

Please take this with a grain of salt, I am mostly guessing. There are other genetics folks on here who are way better than me!

 

[tambayo]

Have such a puzzle here myself now. blue otter X blue carrying black self. Expected blue and black, but the 2 blue otters are a light and a dark blue and the black otter kit is not black when compared to the two black selfs. Now 3 weeks old and fur colors keep shifting or the light just confuses things.
Now this doe is intended as the start of a colors line of selfs with black, blue and chocolate, i just didn't expect that i possibly have all 3 already. I know the breeder of the buck had a chocolate kit show up in her lines somewhere, so it is possible.
Frustratingly the nice plenty of good foto's website on rabbit colors i found went offline some time last? year and that makes finding pictures to compare difficult.
I think i have to rewrite the colorcodes for some of my rabbits again.

 

[ida1416]

Oh man, I can never keep the color names straight...what is "smoke pearl"? what is "lynx"? off to google for translations...

Ok, near as I can tell:
lynx means lilac agouti (kit)
smoke pearl is a shaded blue rabbit (mom)
cinnamon is a black tort (possible dad)
Orange agouti is what it sounds like (possible dad)

This means both genes for the baby must be dilute, or dd, mom is dilute so no mystery there. Dad could have carried dilute. The baby is agouti, can't get that from mom, so dad must have contributed it--maybe he was orange agouti, not cinnamon. The real mystery here is where the chocolate gene is coming from, which is required for the lilac in lynx. Because the kit is lilac (bb), both mom and dad had to have a chocolate (b) gene to give, but since chocolate can hide under the black (B) gene in smoke pearl, there you go! You said there were rew, so I am guessing they both carry rew as well.

Edit: OOOOH, there are oranges in the kits as well--then mom carries non-extension! (e)

Best guess at mom genotype:
aa Bb chl c dd Ee

Best guess at dad genotype:
A_ Bb Cc Dd ee (plus En en for broken)

Please take this with a grain of salt, I am mostly guessing. There are other genetics folks on here who are way better than me!

That's awesome! Thanks for the breakdown that all made sense to me. And I appreciate you putting the genotypes in there too!

 

[Alaska Satin]

Frustratingly the nice plenty of good foto's website on rabbit colors i found went offline some time last? year and that makes finding pictures to compare difficult.
I think i have to rewrite the colorcodes for some of my rabbits again.

Here are two outstanding color charts for normal fur:
https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guidehttp://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors.shtml

This is a bit of a genetics puzzle for me. I had a kit born to a doe that I was told was smoke pearl. I'll include a picture of her. The buck (who unfortunately passed away and I dont really have good pictures of him) was either a cinnamon or an orange agouti. He had a broken pattern so it was a little hard to tell. When I crossed him with an orange agouti I got kits that appear to be either orange or cinnamon, although they do have a bit of a dilute, almost cream look to them. I'll include a picture as well. Back to the smoke pearl cross, I was surprised to see a lynx (my favorite color!) pop out! There were also two broken chestnuts and a REW. Would this confirm he was a cinnamon? Are we certain that the doe is smoke pearl? So many questions I'm sorry to make your brains hurt

Here're my two cents...

Sable colors in general can be pretty tricky to identify since they have such a range of expression. Smoke pearl, which is a dilute black sable <aaB_cchl_ddE_>, usually looks a bit bluer (is that a word?), though not exactly blue. Your doe - on my screen - not only looks more sable than blue, but she also has a fairly brown body color. As @ladysown points out, the chocolate is a little surprising since that takes both parents carrying <b> but since it's a recessive, that's always a possibility. Another possibility is that your doe is a chocolate sable <aabbcchl_D_Ee>. That would be reasonable if she did produce a lynx (and might explain the color that I see on my screen).

So, to the question of producing a lynx from a chocolate sable (or smoke pearl) with a cinnamon (I'm assuming you are referring to what I know as tort <aaB-C-D-ee>) or an orange sire...Since choc sable and smoke pearl are both self colors, if the baby truly is a lynx, the sire must be orange; that would be the only place to get an agouti <A> to make lynx <A_bbC_ddE_>. And, whether or not the baby is lynx, if the buck produced chestnuts with the self doe, he must be an orange (or some flavor of agouti).

The REW doesn't really tell you much other than that both parents have <c> in the second place on the C locus - which is why I included it below.

Your buck is NOT tort (cinnamon):
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (so no lynx and no chestnut)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (no lynx or chestnut)

Your buck IS orange:
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis and full color probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (so you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (again, you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)

Note that many breeders like to breed chocolate-based (rather than black-based) oranges, because chocolate smut is less obvious than black smut. So it wouldn't be at all surprising if your orange buck carried chocolate.

As far as the photos of the babies of your buck x the orange doe, they look like creams to me <A_B_C_ddee>. That would suggest that both parents carry dilute, and both are non-extension (which you already know since that's what makes them orange).

One more wrench in the works: lynx <A_ddC_ddE_> is pretty easily confused with cream <A_B_C_ddee>, blue tort <aabbC_ddee> or lilac tort <aabbC_ddee>. This is especially true with brokens. The only way I've ever been able to be sure about those colors is to either know certain details about the pedigree (and trust that the colors have been correctly identified), or actually see the ring colors in the fur across the flanks/back of lynx; like oranges, the creams have only a surface color and an undercolor, no rings.

I have found that agoutis, especially the dilutes, take at least a few months for proper ring color to show up; it starts on the flanks and progresses across the back and shoulders last. So, since based on the parents' colors, your lynx bunny could be lynx, cream, or tort, making the final call on color may be in the future.

BTW, I'd love to see the pedigrees on the orange buck and the smoke pearl (?) doe!

 

[ida1416]

Here are two outstanding color charts for normal fur:
https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guidehttp://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors.shtml

Here're my two cents...

Sable colors in general can be pretty tricky to identify since they have such a range of expression. Smoke pearl, which is a dilute black sable <aaB_cchl_ddE_>, usually looks a bit bluer (is that a word?), though not exactly blue. Your doe - on my screen - not only looks more sable than blue, but she also has a fairly brown body color. As @ladysown points out, the chocolate is a little surprising since that takes both parents carrying <b> but since it's a recessive, that's always a possibility. Another possibility is that your doe is a chocolate sable <aabbcchl_D_Ee>. That would be reasonable if she did produce a lynx (and might explain the color that I see on my screen).

So, to the question of producing a lynx from a chocolate sable (or smoke pearl) with a cinnamon (I'm assuming you are referring to what I know as tort <aaB-C-D-ee>) or an orange sire...Since choc sable and smoke pearl are both self colors, if the baby truly is a lynx, the sire must be orange; that would be the only place to get an agouti <A> to make lynx <A_bbC_ddE_>. And, whether or not the baby is lynx, if the buck produced chestnuts with the self doe, he must be an orange.

The REW doesn't reallly tell you much other than that both parents have <c> in the second place on the C locus - which is why I included it below.

Your buck is NOT tort (cinnamon):
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (so no lynx and no chestnut)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (no lynx or chestnut)

Your buck IS orange:
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis and full color probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (so you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (again, you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)

Note that many breeders like to breed chocolate-based (rather than black-based) oranges, because chocolate smut is less obvious than black smut. So it wouldn't be at all surprising if your orange buck carried chocolate.

As far as the photos of the babies of your buck x the orange doe, they look like creams to me <A_B_C_ddee>. That would suggest that both parents carry dilute, and both are non-extension (which you already know since that's what makes them orange).

One more wrench in the works: lynx <A_ddC_ddE_> is pretty easily confused with cream <A_B_C_ddee>, blue tort <aabbC_ddee> or lilac tort <aabbC_ddee>. This is especially true with brokens. The only way I've ever been able to be sure about those colors is to either know certain details about the pedigree (and trust that the colors have been correctly identified), or actually see the ring colors in the fur across the flanks/back of lynx; like oranges, the creams have only a surface color and an undercolor, no rings.

I have found that agoutis, especially the dilutes, take at least a few months for proper ring color to show up; it starts on the flanks and progresses across the back and shoulders last. So, since based on the parents' colors, your lynx bunny could be lynx, cream, or tort, making the final call on color may be in the future.

BTW, I'd love to see the pedigrees on the orange buck and the smoke pearl (?) doe!

Here are two outstanding color charts for normal fur:
https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guidehttp://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-colors.shtml

Here're my two cents...

Sable colors in general can be pretty tricky to identify since they have such a range of expression. Smoke pearl, which is a dilute black sable <aaB_cchl_ddE_>, usually looks a bit bluer (is that a word?), though not exactly blue. Your doe - on my screen - not only looks more sable than blue, but she also has a fairly brown body color. As @ladysown points out, the chocolate is a little surprising since that takes both parents carrying <b> but since it's a recessive, that's always a possibility. Another possibility is that your doe is a chocolate sable <aabbcchl_D_Ee>. That would be reasonable if she did produce a lynx (and might explain the color that I see on my screen).

So, to the question of producing a lynx from a chocolate sable (or smoke pearl) with a cinnamon (I'm assuming you are referring to what I know as tort <aaB-C-D-ee>) or an orange sire...Since choc sable and smoke pearl are both self colors, if the baby truly is a lynx, the sire must be orange; that would be the only place to get an agouti <A> to make lynx <A_bbC_ddE_>. And, whether or not the baby is lynx, if the buck produced chestnuts with the self doe, he must be an orange.

The REW doesn't reallly tell you much other than that both parents have <c> in the second place on the C locus - which is why I included it below.

Your buck is NOT tort (cinnamon):
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (so no lynx and no chestnut)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Tort <aa B_Cc D_ ee> = all selfs (no lynx or chestnut)

Your buck IS orange:
...Smoke pearl <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis and full color probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (so you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)
...Chocolate Sable <aa bb cchl c D_ E_> x Orange <A_ B_ Cc D_ ee> = agoutis probable; chocolates, selfs, dilutes and/or non-extension colors possible (again, you'd expect chestnuts and could get lynx)

Note that many breeders like to breed chocolate-based (rather than black-based) oranges, because chocolate smut is less obvious than black smut. So it wouldn't be at all surprising if your orange buck carried chocolate.

As far as the photos of the babies of your buck x the orange doe, they look like creams to me <A_B_C_ddee>. That would suggest that both parents carry dilute, and both are non-extension (which you already know since that's what makes them orange).

One more wrench in the works: lynx <A_ddC_ddE_> is pretty easily confused with cream <A_B_C_ddee>, blue tort <aabbC_ddee> or lilac tort <aabbC_ddee>. This is especially true with brokens. The only way I've ever been able to be sure about those colors is to either know certain details about the pedigree (and trust that the colors have been correctly identified), or actually see the ring colors in the fur across the flanks/back of lynx; like oranges, the creams have only a surface color and an undercolor, no rings.

I have found that agoutis, especially the dilutes, take at least a few months for proper ring color to show up; it starts on the flanks and progresses across the back and shoulders last. So, since based on the parents' colors, your lynx bunny could be lynx, cream, or tort, making the final call on color may be in the future.

BTW, I'd love to see the pedigrees on the orange buck and the smoke pearl (?) doe!

Thanks for the response! I love you guys my second day on here and this is already so fun. By cinnamon, I was referring to chocolate agouti. As for pedigrees, that kind of goes back to the beginning of this whole adventure, I aquired my lionhead does from a breeder that let his rabbits roam pretty freely with each other. I just began breeding lionheads and unfortunately the rabbits I am starting with, while good stock, do not have pedigrees as the people who I got them from did not keep such records. So the pedigrees are starting with me and while I figured I'd get clued into the genotypes as they had litters and their babies matured, I can't help myself from obsessing over who is what and what combinations may be possible in the future lol. I'll attach another picture using flash of the doe as while she has a warm/sepia tone, she definitely isn't completely brown and I think the bad lighting in the original picture may have been a bit misleading. To my great dismay I did lose the lynx? kit. First time mom got a little clumsy, it's not her fault but it was a sad day. I do have a picture of it (not graphic at all) if you guys would like to see why I believed it to be lynx.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNFXXjAgRKbcNfSW1CV7at47hUDHHHjw69nTxGE
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNFXXjAgRKbcNfSW1CV7at47hUDHHHjw69nTxGE

 

[Alaska Satin]

Have such a puzzle here myself now. blue otter X blue carrying black self. Expected blue and black, but the 2 blue otters are a light and a dark blue and the black otter kit is not black when compared to the two black selfs. Now 3 weeks old and fur colors keep shifting or the light just confuses things.

Color shifting sounds like the sable gene at work. Sables often start out looking like pale blues and go through quite a series of changes. See images of the color development here:

https://rabbittalk.com/threads/chinchilla-rex-at-last.36724/#post-355913
If you've actually got sable in play, two copies <cchl cchl> make a seal (which can look almost black - check for brownish footpads rather than the gray footpads of a black), whereas one copy of <cchl> makes sable, and diluting it <dd> makes smoke pearl, which is bluish. All of those colors will start showing a shaded look, darker on the ears, muzzle and feet, usually by about 2 weeks, although it can be hard to discern the shading in dark seal.

You can get sable <cchl> along with the tan gene <at> that makes otters, but then it's called silver marten since the rufus is blocked or greatly reduced and the markings look silvery instead of tan (sable martens are gorgeous!). But if your otter-marked babies have true tan edges around their markings, you know they're not sable.

The other possibility is that your lighter "blue" otter kit is actually a lilac otter (i.e. dilute chocolate otter, which you'll get if you mix black, blue and chocolate), especially since you know the buck could be carrying chocolate.

Are they any particular breed and/or pedigreed? And can you post some photos?

 

[MsTemeraire]

cinnamon is a black tort (possible dad)
Orange agouti is what it sounds like (possible dad)

Cinnamon is chocolate agouti, called cinnamon in Netherland Dwarfs, Amber in Rex.
The actual breed called Cinnamon is black tort.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Cinnamon is chocolate agouti, called cinnamon in Netherland Dwarfs, Amber in Rex.
The actual breed called Cinnamon is black tort.

By cinnamon, I was referring to chocolate agouti.

In the U.S., the term cinnamon is generally used only in reference to the Cinnamon breed, which is accepted in a single variety. The color is not named specifically but does indeed describe a black tort <aaB_C_D_ee>.

As of the last ARBA Standard of Perfection printing (2021-2025), Netherland Dwarfs were accepted in the Agouti Group in chestnut <A_B_C_D_E_>, chinchilla <A_B_cchd_D_E_>, lynx <A_bbC_ddE_>, opal <A_B_C_ddE_>and squirrel<A_B_cchd_ddE_>; in December 2022, chocolate agouti <A_bbC_D_E_> was voted by the breed club into the Agouti group as well. However, it is known as chocolate agouti, not cinnamon.

In the other breeds in which the ARBA recognizes chocolate agouti, it is known as chocolate agouti except in Rex and Mini Rex, in which the variety is known as amber.

So-o-o-o, to the original question... if your buck was chocolate agouti carrying dilute and non-extension (which he must be if his kits with the orange doe were cream), and your doe is smoke pearl carrying chocolate, you certainly could see both chestnut and lynx:

<A_ bb Cc Dd Ee> x <aa B_ cchl c dd E_> = agouti (except chinchilla), full-color, dilute, shaded and/or REW likely; and self, chocolate and non-extension colors all possible depending on what the buck has at the A locus, and what the doe has at the B and E loci.

Thanks for the response! I love you guys my second day on here and this is already so fun. By cinnamon, I was referring to chocolate agouti. As for pedigrees, that kind of goes back to the beginning of this whole adventure, I aquired my lionhead does from a breeder that let his rabbits roam pretty freely with each other. I just began breeding lionheads and unfortunately the rabbits I am starting with, while good stock, do not have pedigrees as the people who I got them from did not keep such records. So the pedigrees are starting with me and while I figured I'd get clued into the genotypes as they had litters and their babies matured, I can't help myself from obsessing over who is what and what combinations may be possible in the future lol. I'll attach another picture using flash of the doe as while she has a warm/sepia tone, she definitely isn't completely brown and I think the bad lighting in the original picture may have been a bit misleading. To my great dismay I did lose the lynx? kit. First time mom got a little clumsy, it's not her fault but it was a sad day. I do have a picture of it (not graphic at all) if you guys would like to see why I believed it to be lynx.
Google Photos
Google Photos

You're right, this fun!

And thumbs-up for starting to keep pedigrees. You'll have fully-pedigreed lionheads in no time! I totally understand obsessing over who is what and what combinations may be possible in the future. It sounds like it might be challenging to identify varieties for a while, especially since lionheads' wool makes colors look different from normal fur, but at least you'll have body fur to go on as well (at least on the rabbits with clean saddles). The new photo of your doe does make her ears look much more blue than chocolate.

Here is a nice resource for varieties in lionheads, with good photos:
https://lionheadrabbit.com/varieties/And here is the North American Lionhead Club's page with photos of currently accepted varieties:
https://lionhead.us/accepted-varieties
So sorry to hear of the loss of the lynx kit! But yes, I would love to see the pictures. (I think you'll find that most of us here would like to see as many photos of rabbits as possible. )

BTW I can't open the two links at the end of your post.

 

[ida1416]

Here are the photos I have of the kit I thought was lynx. In the beginning it had very silvery, light fur that didn't quite seem blue. By 8 days (unfortunately when I lost it) it was beginning to develop cream colored points on its legs, ears, face, and a dusting on its back, as well as a white belly. Maybe it will forever be a mystery of what it would have turned out to be...now that we've discussed it I could see it being lynx OR an interesting cream. RIP beautiful baby

 

[ida1416]

Here is one of the other babies from smoke pearl? with maybe chocolate? aka Willow who are doing splendidly, much to my relief. Also included is a picture of the orange doe with her son (the one I am keeping to replace his late sire) and who has stolen my heart!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Here is one of the other babies from smoke pearl? with maybe chocolate? aka Willow who are doing splendidly, much to my relief. Also included is a picture of the orange doe with her son (the one I am keeping to replace his late sire) and who has stolen my heart!

Looks like a Broken Chestnut (the Kit in the first picture)

 

[ida1416]

Looks like a Broken Chestnut (the Kit in the first picture)

Yeah! She had two broken chestnuts, one REW, and one mysteryyyyy kit which began this thread.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Here is one of the other babies from smoke pearl? with maybe chocolate? aka Willow who are doing splendidly, much to my relief. Also included is a picture of the orange doe with her son (the one I am keeping to replace his late sire) and who has stolen my heart!

Oh my GOODNESS!!! Such cuteness!!! Those ears!!!

So now I'm curious about the color on that kit:

In the first photo he looks almost like a dilute tort, except for the tan color around his nostrils, but it looks like his belly is the same color as his back. In the last photo, though, it seems he might have lighter belly color. I can't tell whether his ears have the agouti silver lining or not. What color do you think he is?

I have another question, since I've never raised lionheads. He looks woolly all over; will he molt out the wool on his saddle area, or will he stay woolly like that?

 

[ida1416]

Oh my GOODNESS!!! Such cuteness!!! Those ears!!!

So now I'm curious about the color on that kit:
View attachment 38429 View attachment 38428
In the first photo he looks almost like a dilute tort, except for the tan color around his nostrils, but it looks like his belly is the same color as his back. In the last photo, though, it seems he might have lighter belly color. I can't tell whether his ears have the agouti silver lining or not. What color do you think he is?

I have another question, since I've never raised lionheads. He looks woolly all over; will he molt out the wool on his saddle area, or will he stay woolly like that?

Okay I took updated pics of Bruno this morning (6 1/2 wks old) and tried to get some key color points in there for ya. The previous picture was at 5 wks so you can see how fast he is growing! You can also see how his little mane is starting to come in! There's also a pic of him at 2 wks old. Both parents and babies are double-maned and his parents have very nice clean saddles and good mane coverage. He will shed out as well and have mane around his head, chest, and flanks but have a short coat on his saddle area. I included some pics of his mom I took this morning both to show her mane and color. I also included a picture of one of his brothers eyes, who have stayed very much blue-gray while little Bruno's eyes are brown with only the slightest gray to them.

 

[ida1416]

Here's a good reference for lionhead colors in particular where I learned a lot of what I know so far: Blossom Acres Rabbitry - Lionhead Color ID

 

[judymac]

. By cinnamon, I was referring to chocolate agouti.

I was going to suggest that as another possibility for the name. . .we always used the term 'cinnamon' for chocolate agouti, although I understand that is no longer an acceptable choice due to other colors using the name. The Cinnamon breed of rabbit appears to be a black tort.

 

[ida1416]

One more update from this interesting color situatuon... the kit I believed to be a rew has now developed clear points on his nose, ears, and tail, and has a dark guard hairs on his back. Indicating Himalayan I think this doe is going to take me on a wild color ride...

 

[Alaska Satin]

One more update from this interesting color situatuon... the kit I believed to be a rew has now developed clear points on his nose, ears, and tail, and has a dark guard hairs on his back. Indicating Himalayan I think this doe is going to take me on a wild color ride...

Can you tell what color its eyes are? Dark guard hairs on the body aren't typical for himi kits, although you can get frosted kits that aren't pure white until their junior coat comes in. The surest way to know is to look at eye color; if they're pink, it's himi, but if they're are dark, it's mostly likely a sable point or another smoke pearl. You could get either since himi <ch> is recessive to both full color <C> and sable/smoke pearl <cchl>.

Let us know what color the kit's eyes are!

 

[ida1416]

Can you tell what color its eyes are? Dark guard hairs on the body aren't typical for himi kits, although you can get frosted kits that aren't pure white until their junior coat comes in. The surest way to know is to look at eye color; if they're pink, it's himi, but if they're are dark, it's mostly likely a sable point or another smoke pearl. You could get either since himi <ch> is recessive to both full color <C> and sable/smoke pearl <cchl>.

Let us know what color the kit's eyes are!

Oh I don't know how, but its himilayan. Eyes pink as bubble gum. That's why I thought it was a rew! So you're saying it came from the smoke pearl mom?