I'm having problems with 2 month olds dying. I was feeding hay regularly, but ran out. They have poppy butts. Is there a source of fiber I can feed aside from hay? I've heard oats are good but I don't know which oats to buy or how much to mix with their regular feed. All help appreciated.
GI problems
- Thread starter Fatboy
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Did you wean them recently? If so, and when you pick them up the sort of seem like they have "gurgley" water inside them, they may have mucoid enteritis. This usually happens after young rabbits are weaned and become stressed. Not having hay to feed them is definitely a minus. If it is true mucoid enteritis, you may end up losing all of them in a few days (sorry 
)
One thing that helps with weaning rabbits, if you have the cages to do so, is not removing them from the (mother's) cage, but moving the doe. Even if you don't have another cage large enough for the keep the doe in permanently, if one can keep the kits in the cage for a week or so, and then move the mother back in when you change them to a different cage it seems to help. Many years ago, I lost a whole litter of (show) french lops about 10 days after I weaned them. They were the best looking litter of lops that I had ever raised, but the absolute worst thing was watching them all waste away and pass within a couple of days, and being helpless to do anything about it.
I raise cross bred rabbits now, and they seem to be much more immune. I still leave them in the main cage and move the mother if I can, and I always give them lots of (extra) hay for the first week or so. Regrettably, I don't know of anything to substitute for the hay, and if they really have M.E., it is probably too late
)One thing that helps with weaning rabbits, if you have the cages to do so, is not removing them from the (mother's) cage, but moving the doe. Even if you don't have another cage large enough for the keep the doe in permanently, if one can keep the kits in the cage for a week or so, and then move the mother back in when you change them to a different cage it seems to help. Many years ago, I lost a whole litter of (show) french lops about 10 days after I weaned them. They were the best looking litter of lops that I had ever raised, but the absolute worst thing was watching them all waste away and pass within a couple of days, and being helpless to do anything about it.
I raise cross bred rabbits now, and they seem to be much more immune. I still leave them in the main cage and move the mother if I can, and I always give them lots of (extra) hay for the first week or so. Regrettably, I don't know of anything to substitute for the hay, and if they really have M.E., it is probably too late
Stopping the hay was a mistake. They need that fibre and lack of it was likely the source of the problem. Rabbits cannot handle sudden changes in diet, especially when they are young.
In a pinch, straw will give them fibre but next to no nutrition and it is no substitute for hay. Oats are good rabbit food in moderation, but again, not a major source of fibre.
If you have access to "safe for rabbit" trees, you could try feeding twigs from them. Willow may make them more comfortable, as it contains a substance similar to aspirin. Apple, pear, elm, poplar and mulberry twigs may also help provide fibre.
But they need hay. Right now they should be getting grass hay and a small amount of kitchen oatmeal (like Quaker Old Fashioned) along with lots of fresh water. It is their best hope of survival.
There are greens that are helpful to stop diarrhea, but only feed them if you are confident you have the right ones. Stop feeding all others for the time being.
1. common plantain - Plantago major
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_major
2. shepherd's purse - Capsella bursa-pastoris
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/shepherd.htm
3. leaves from UNSPSRAYED raspberry, blackberry or strawberry plants.
If you absolutely cannot get more hay for them, you may be able to cut and air-dry some long grass as a stop-gap. It must be thoroughly dried so it is like hay. I'm not sure how far along your growing season is so I don't know if this is a possibility yet.
In a pinch, straw will give them fibre but next to no nutrition and it is no substitute for hay. Oats are good rabbit food in moderation, but again, not a major source of fibre.
If you have access to "safe for rabbit" trees, you could try feeding twigs from them. Willow may make them more comfortable, as it contains a substance similar to aspirin. Apple, pear, elm, poplar and mulberry twigs may also help provide fibre.
But they need hay. Right now they should be getting grass hay and a small amount of kitchen oatmeal (like Quaker Old Fashioned) along with lots of fresh water. It is their best hope of survival.
There are greens that are helpful to stop diarrhea, but only feed them if you are confident you have the right ones. Stop feeding all others for the time being.
1. common plantain - Plantago major
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantago_major
2. shepherd's purse - Capsella bursa-pastoris
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/weedguid/shepherd.htm
3. leaves from UNSPSRAYED raspberry, blackberry or strawberry plants.
If you absolutely cannot get more hay for them, you may be able to cut and air-dry some long grass as a stop-gap. It must be thoroughly dried so it is like hay. I'm not sure how far along your growing season is so I don't know if this is a possibility yet.
I looked back and the rabbits and they are actually 10 weeks old. Is there any other grain that I could use for a hay substitute? My hay supplier doesn't have any hay right now. Also, which type of oats can I feed, whole or crimped?
You can feed either whole or crimped oats, wheat or barley as part of your rabbits' diet but no grain is a substitute for hay. It does not perform the same function in the GI tract. It will not solve your problem.
Try other sources for hay. Most feed stores in the United States seem to carry hay. Or maybe you can find some on Craigslist or through some other local ads. In a pinch you can get small bags of it at the pet shop, but it is expensive that way. Hope you find some very soon.
Try other sources for hay. Most feed stores in the United States seem to carry hay. Or maybe you can find some on Craigslist or through some other local ads. In a pinch you can get small bags of it at the pet shop, but it is expensive that way. Hope you find some very soon.
Why rely on one supplier for hay? Look on Craigs List, and there should be hay for sale. Can you go to your local coop, and find out if they can tell you where you can find hay for sale? If nothing else, do you have neighbors close by, or someone, with horses? Possibly you could find out if you could get even one bale from them.
Ha! Maggie and I were posting at the same time. :lol:
Ha! Maggie and I were posting at the same time. :lol:
And saying pretty much the same thing! :lol:
skysthelimit
Well-known member
fuzzy9":15e1huzg said:
I know if it's anything like me, the feed store is the best bet. Not living near any agricultural communities complicates things. Even looking on Craigslist, I have 5 listings, all are more than 90 minutes away by highway, and the ones I called didn't return my phone calls. If it wasn't for my sheep herding instructor, I'd be shelling out $$$ trying to keep my herd fed at the pet store. It's hard enough to find rabbit food.
What is a co op?
Frosted Rabbits
Well-known member
A Co-op is a farm supply business--locally, Western Reserve is the big one-- but, they do not sell REAL hay or straw. They are little more than a more expensive Tractor Supply Company, with a narrower inventory line. And co-ops adjust to the demographics of the customer base, as well..TSC is MUCH better in Chardon and Middlefield than here in Ashtabula! Western Reserve doesn't even hit Geauga county, as the dairy farms there are large enough, they buy wholesale) BUt the best place for me to get what I want-- a small mill in Painesville, and a nice, large mill in Conneautville, Pa! Prices on rolls of wire-- MUCH better than Lowes and Home Depot! And places like Lowe's, Home Depot, TSC are what keep Co-ops from holding their own in an area--
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Frosted Rabbits":brn2cu4x said:
probably why I don't know what they are, this is big box store world. if it's not sold at Walmart, Home Depot or Lowe's I can't get it. Getting hay is getting ridiculous. As soon as it comes in again, I'm going to figure out how to store it.
boundarybunnyco
Well-known member
I lost two litters (18 kits) to what I think was the same thing. I tried everything. I never let them run out of hay. I gave them oatmeal. I gave them probiotics. I gave them simethicone. I gave them pineapple juice. I fed them water with a dropper. They all died at different times, and it was horrible.
currituckbun
Well-known member
Pet stores have hay in small amounts but it is hay. I have bought it in a pinch.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
currituckbun":mbid6nl8 said:
That's a lot when you have twenty plus rabbits. What I feed to one litter in one day is contained in a $7 mini bale.
do note that hay is NOT the end all and be all when it comes to entropathic issues. It really isn't. It can help. but kits who are going to have digestive issues will do so REGARDLESS if there is hay available or not.
I find the entropathic illnesses are more related to weather (seasonal changes/unseasonal weather/anything that changes the weather) and genetics (stress/immune factors) than it is to anything else.
hay can act as a stabilizing factor, but when push comes to shove.. if a kit is going to get it, it simply does regardless of what you feed.
I find the entropathic illnesses are more related to weather (seasonal changes/unseasonal weather/anything that changes the weather) and genetics (stress/immune factors) than it is to anything else.
hay can act as a stabilizing factor, but when push comes to shove.. if a kit is going to get it, it simply does regardless of what you feed.
Every one can guess what cause it. But nobody really knows. Myself i think it is stress. Lots of people here dont feed hay at all. I use to be one of those people. But you tend to lose less babies if you do feed hay. IT does help. You are really taking a chance. I have been on both sides of the fence so to speak. I am staying on the hay side. LOL
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
Mary Ann's Rabbitry":1awwkfff said:
:lol: I like that, MaryAnn! I am staying on the hay side too!
Fatboy":1awwkfff said:
When I first bought my rabbits, I didn't feed hay, just pellets. I didn't have any health issues, but I also had not yet really ramped up production, and only had a few litters under my belt.
I had read Bob Bennet's book Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits and it said that your rabbits should be eager to get their pellets, but not ravenously diving in when fed, and in that way you could judge if they were being over or under fed. Well, my rabbits could have cared less. They just laid around, and were never excited about getting fed.
When I started feeding hay, there was an immediate change. Suddenly, my lazy bored rabbits were mobbing the doors of their cages, or bouncing around in eager anticipation of me getting to their row. It was like someone had snuck into my rabbitry in the middle of the night and replaced them all. They get hay and grain in the morning, and pellets at night... but now they are excited about getting pellets too, although their consumption of them has decreased a lot. Some of them will still eat 1 cup, but others are down to 1/4 or 1/2 cup.
Since the weeds are growing again, they also get some greens morning and evening, but not very much yet. They also get chunks of carrot about once a week, and celery or apple occasionally, and they absolutely love horse cookies.
Even if their were no real health benefits, I would feed hay simply because my rabbits seem to be so much happier and more active. It is a lot more fun to feed when your animals are so happy to see you!
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Fatboy":b2jschpf said:
I rarely ever fed it when I had pet rabbits, they just ate pellets. I feed it now mainly to cut feed cost, and because they seem to enjoy it more than the pellets. I originally bought it as bedding, but the rabbits kept eating it. I knew hay was for horses, goats and cows, didn't realize rabbits and sheep eat it too.
Fatboy, I haven't seen anyone mention this, but I have a theory about kit die off after weaning. My theory is that the doe is carrying a mild case of enteritis that doesn't rise to symptomatic in the doe because of her more robust immune system. The kits, however, don't have as developed an immune system, so they succumb to the disease soon after being removed from access to the doe's poops/cecums. While I don't have any personal experience with this illness yet (knock on wood), I have seen many others going through this and have seen similar issues with other animals.
I would suggest that you might want to treat your whole herd for enteritis and disinfect everything before breeding/kindling.
I would suggest that you might want to treat your whole herd for enteritis and disinfect everything before breeding/kindling.
Well, I don't see that being the problem because they were in hanging all wire cages. However, I talked to a friend of mine that has about 300 rabbits, he users to feed the same feed I was feeding but he started loosing rabbits so he changed feeds. He doesn't feed hay, and since he changed feeds he hasn't lost anymore. According to him the feed I had. was bad to have big pieces of corn in it. As of today I've changed their feed to one that has NO CORN in it.
