Getting First Bunnies tomorrow!

[Fenwaldfarmstead]

Hello everyone!

Since we somehow got it into our heads to add rabbits to our farm lineup (cows, chickens, ducks, turkeys, and counting), I've been stalking these forums and learning so much! So now rabbit pickup day is tomorrow and I just wanted to get your opinions on our plans and setup. I've never raised rabbits before so I'd love some advice!

We'd like to raise rabbits mostlyy for meat, but we'd probably have some pet sales as well. We enjoy tanning hides so interesting fur was a criteria as well. We kind of settled on CHampaignes but had an awfully hard time finding them in our area! One breeder is selling all different breeds to raise just NZW for large commercial markets. He has one Champaigne doe that will be bred soon, and he agreed to reserve us a couple kits. But since that's such a long way off, we decided to buy a breeding pair (unrelated lines) of Silver Fox X NZB. The rabbitry was large but clean and efficient, and the rabbits seemed to be in good health. Oh, and they were super meaty! Couldn't hardly pick them up for the muscle.

So.. long story short.. do we have a chance to pay expenses with these guys until we learn the ropes? Or should we have held out longer for the Champaignes? What are the pros-cons of the crosses vs the purebreds? Silver Foxes vs the Champaignes?

Right now we've got a couple cages suspended from shady trees in the garden, but would like to transition to a doe-only colony in the future. We reckon on removing the does prior to kindling to a cage until the kits start hopping around. Our biggest environmental challenge here is 104 degree days in the summertime. Any tips on building a rabbit warren that will resist the rising mercury?

I would also love any advice on where to find genetics information. I've found lots of good detailed genetics on coat colors; what about selecting for production characteristics, resilience, and thriftiness?

I guess this is getting pretty long so I'll just ask one more question. Is it possible to raise meaty rabbits on alfalfa pellets, minerals, and garden scraps? Or should I plan on having to buy pellets? We don't have much in the way of grain farming out here, or a custom mill, so mixing a special feed will get real expensive really quick.

Thanks again to all of you for your passion for the rabbits and the copious information you've contributed to us noobies here!<br /><br />__________ Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:45 am __________<br /><br />I should have mentioned that when I say garden scraps, I mean from our acre and a half market garden, with dozens of different vegetables.

 

[PSFAngoras]

Hello and welcome!!!

Sounds like you guys are off to a good start. Unfortunately, I can't help you with the colony advice, I keep all my does separate as they can't even stand their own kits after about 12 weeks, but some people do have good success with them. I would check out the colonies section for more information about colony housing and warren building info.

As far as SF/NZ crosses, it sounds like you have a good meat rabbit there. The fact that they have NZ should speed up the growth and the SF should help the coat, but if you plan on feeding them more naturally you may see a slower growth rate than with a pelleted feed. There is no harm in that, and the meat may end up tasteing better and you will likely have a healthier rabbit, but if you have a goal of a certain weight by a certain age, you may have to re-evaluate. Not 100% saying that you will, but it is more likely that you will have a slower growth rate.

As far as what you want to feed, it does sound like a good diet to me. I feed pellets as I don't have space to house bales of hay, but my breeder I got my new angoras from and my rex trio feeds straight alfalfa hay bales, with barley and BOSS on the side. She has a decent grow out rate, but she also doesn't harvest her rex too they are more into their prime coat around 4-5 months.

Unfortunately, as far as selling some kits as pets, there seems to be a shift towards the more novelty breeds in the rabbit pet world right now. Most people want dwarfs or giants, or a rabbit with some sort of fancy coat. Unfortunately my area is only interested in the dwarves. So neither my rex or my angoras sell well. I just rescued a pair of Jersey Woolies (dwarf wool breed) so hopefully those will help bring in some money to support the larger rabbits. You might really luck out there with the champagnes, as they are a beautiful heritage breed, but I don't think that SF/NZ cross would sell well as a pet, though I certainly wouldn't pass up trying. Maybe your pet market is different than mine.

The genetics section here is pretty good, but you can also search rabbit genetics on google for articles too. Unfortunately, most genetics breeders deal with are based on color and fur type, and really have nothing to do with hardiness, grow out rates, or overall size. Those are bred out by selecting for the traits in the rabbits as you see them. Typically if those traits are apparent in the adults you can usually assume the kits will have them as, but if your into researching the genetics, you already know that.

You'll have to post pics of the new rabbits for all of us to see, good luck going to get them tomorrow!

 

[Dood]

Welcome to the forum.

do we have a chance to pay expenses with these guys until we learn the ropes?

It depends on your definition of 'pay expenses' and the price of meat in hour area. Rabbit is $5/lb here and the cost to me is 1.80/lb in the summer (lots of free forage) and more in the winter, but still cheaper than most store bought meats. I sell rabbits as raw diet for dogs and cats and have some pet/breeding stock sales and figure I break even.

Or should we have held out longer for the Champaignes?

As you are new to rabbit raising i think it was a good idea to start with less expensive stock to learn the ropes before tacking a purebred. The rare breeds are also less likely to have been bred for production traits and more so for the show table so litter size, mothering abilitiest, etc.. may not be as good. But this is not the case in ALL rare breed bloodlines. My one line of AmChins has amazing production qualities but my other line from, show stock, sucks.

What are the pros-cons of the crosses vs the purebreds?

I found my hybrids ( American Chinchilla does crossed with a NZ x Flemish buck) grow out better than my purebreds and have shifted my focus to 'meat mutts'. You may find that you start to loose hybrid vigor as you start breeding your Silver Fox X NZB but then you can cross in the Chamagnes

advice on where to find genetics information. I've found lots of good detailed genetics on coat colors; what about selecting for production characteristics, resilience, and thriftiness?

Google Scholar has tons of scientific articles on breeding for rabbit production qualities - http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en& ... 5&as_sdtp=

 

[Fenwaldfarmstead]

Thank you for the feedback! I'll definitely post some pictures when they're settled in. Glad to hear the prospective diet isn't too unrealistic. I'm not too concerned with how long it takes them to make weight; definitely more with how much it costs and how well I can convert garden waste to bunnies. If I can use alot of the byproduct and they are able to grow quickly enough to be heavy before they get tough, I'll be happy!

Great information on trends in the pet market; thank you! I guess we'll have to see how it goes. Our worst-case scenario for marketing is a guaranteed buyer at just over a dollar a pound live weight on the hoof. On the foot?

We're getting the Champaign kits at 8 weeks for $5, which we felt was reasonable. No papers, though. The two SFXNZB we're getting for $25 for the two, which also seemed acceptible. They're I think 4 or 5 months old (can't remember).

Awesome link for the genetics, Dood, thank you! Question on hybrid vigor; is it true that the vigor kicks in with the first generation crop (ie the X bunnies I'm buying now) but wears off for they're offspring? Or will I be able to take advantage of the vigor by crossing the two crosses? Heh. Hopefully that makes some kind of sense. Or maybe I need some pure SF and some pure NZB... Hmmm, my rabbit plans seem to keep expanding the more time I spend thinking about it!

Thanks again for the great information. Ya'll are awesome. FF.

 

[Dood]

Champaign kits at 8 weeks for $5

That is one HECK of a deal. Buy a bunch and re-sell them for $60 each !

the vigor kicks in with the first generation crop (ie the X bunnies I'm buying now) but wears off for they're offspring

:yeahthat: breeding your SFxNZB to each other will likely produce a range of kit sizes with some looking more SF, others more like NZB and some a mix of traits. It seems to be that the first gen are more uniform but breeding the hybrids give a variety.

I have kept some AmChin x (NZxFlemish) does and when bred back to their father the Flemish really comes through creating gangly kits with slow muscle growth and huge ears.

 

[Fenwaldfarmstead]

SO, we got the bunnies all set up last night. They kind of panicked at first but then settled down to munching on hay. We bought some pelleted feed for them to help them transition slowly to our feed regime; we've mixed it with the alfalfa pellets. I'll try to get some pictures of them up today

Are the Champaigne kits still a great deal with no papers? I would have preferred to see papers just so we can confirm that they are, in fact, Champaignes. But she (the doe) definitely has the type, conformation, and fur. Great personality, too. I think one reason he's selling them affordably is to promote rabbit raising for his integrated meat market. Maybe we'll pick up a couple extras, though We get pick of the litter, too! Great to know about the hybrid vigor; that makes sense. Not sure what affect that'll have on our breeding program, but I'm still reading up on the articles you linked! FF.

 

[PSFAngoras]

It sure sounds to me like you have some happy bunnies!

I think you are getting a screaming deal on the Champagnes. Heck, around where I live you'll be lucky if you spend less than $ 25 for a mutt meat buck, lets not mention how much does go for. The only time I have paid less than $25 was when the rabbits I got out of it were rescues. I got two jersey woolies at $12 each that were horribly matted, and a mini satin doe for $5 who had an attitude that would match that of the killer bunny from Monty Python (wasn't her fault, they though the way to teach her not to bite was to hit her with a stick in the face when she lunged, I'd bite more too! Ended up being one of the best mothers and sweetest does I had.)

I agree with dood. Buy a few extra and spread the love with a 'transportation' fee added.

 

[Dood]

Rabbit pedigrees are not like dog pedigrees.

They are based on the honor system and there is no guarantee they are legitimate. I am pretty sure one of my pedigreed AmChins is at least 1/4 NZ or possibly more :x However she is very good looking and I show her kits as AmChins but warn buyers of the unusual colour recessives they carry from an un-known ancestor..

To be legitimate a pedigree needs a 3 generation ( every 6 months in rabbit ) ancestry so you could have pedigreed rabbits in 18 months.