forage--beyond basic safe plants

[Rainey]

I've found this forum so helpful since the first thing we did after getting rabbits in spring of 2014 was to move them off pellets onto hay, grain and things we have or can grow (which I call forage for lack of a better word)

What I'm hoping for now is some fine tuning. When the new barn (going up this summer) is done, we'll have better space for the rabbits. More space so we could have more rabbits? We plan then to do some experimenting then with forage for our grow-outs, to see what gives us the best results. But I wondered if some of you who have been doing this for a while have already figured it out. And I could learn from your hard work and mistakes instead of doing it myself

So some basic questions:
Grass--I've read that it's best when it is growing fast, that it isn't as good as various weeds, that rabbits fed mostly grass can starve on it, that it is a "basic" rabbit food. Do those of you who give fresh feed as a major part of your rabbits diet, not just for treats, feed grass in any significant quantity or just leave in what you get when gathering dandelions and other weeds?

Herbs--some are recommended for medicinal reasons or to increase lactation, but is it ok to add them to the daily buckets? (I have dill that self seeds and needs to be pulled out when it's crowding other crops, parsley, oregano, cilantro, lemon balm, thyme that need to be cut to keep them from going to seed. I finally have borage which I've heard on here is good for lactating does, but how much is enough and is there such a thing as too much ( I know they should get variety and that isn't a problem)

Other stuff that is going in the bucket this month--chicory, plantain, clover, queen annes lace, mallow, dandelion, radish tops, J. artichokes, goldenrod, grasses. Are some of these better than others? Any that should be limited?

They also get willow every day and sometimes bramble from berries or roses, sumac, grape leaves

And finally, do those of you who feed lots of forage just gather it from various wild places? Have you found ways to encourage the plants you want--the ones usually considered weeds? I notice there is lots of plantain in front of the sawmill where the ground is torn up in fall and spring. Also that the chicory grows most thickly along the road edges. I wonder if just grading off an area to remove the sod would result in more desirable plants--or just horse nettle and knapweed :?

This may be too many questions for one post, but any help with any of them will be appreciated.

 

[Dood]

I find most "weeds" become less palatable and even toxic with age and hot weather so many I only harvest in the spring and turn into homemade hay - golden rod and queens Ann lace are two that come to mind.

I always offer grass hay and grains along with forage so the rabbits can eat something else if not in the mood for fresh, this also helps me determine when the weeds are becoming less-desirable because they will be left over and the rabbits are not forced to eat them due to hunger and I will stop collecting that species

Some of these weeds I will still cut as the fresh growth will sprout out and I can collect it in the fall when the cool weather returns and the rabbits will eat them again

I have plenty of weeds in my area as much of the farm land has been abandoned (bought up by speculators for future housing :-( ) and gone wild so I don't need to plant more weeds but I do collect dandilion and purslane as these are rarer finds and I plant the seeds along the edge of my veggy gardens

When harvesting I try not to damage the roots or kill the plants and just trim them so they can regrow for a future harvest.

 

[Miss M]

Rainey, make sure to carefully identify Queen Anne's Lace, if you haven't already. It looks so much like the various Hemlocks.

 

[MaggieJ]

So some basic questions:
Grass--I've read that it's best when it is growing fast, that it isn't as good as various weeds, that rabbits fed mostly grass can starve on it, that it is a "basic" rabbit food. Do those of you who give fresh feed as a major part of your rabbits diet, not just for treats, feed grass in any significant quantity or just leave in what you get when gathering dandelions and other weeds?
Mostly i just leave in what comes with the other weeds. The exception to this is timothy grass which we planted along with red clover as a nurse crop for alfalfa. When it is at its best (pre-bloom) I do feed it as one of the main greens along with alfalfa, dandelions, chicory, plantain. clover, willow etc.. Planting that alfalfa/clover/timothy patch was one of the most productive things we did for the rabbits. It is dwindling now but it gave us years and years of bunny greens.

Herbs--some are recommended for medicinal reasons or to increase lactation, but is it ok to add them to the daily buckets? (I have dill that self seeds and needs to be pulled out when it's crowding other crops, parsley, oregano, cilantro, lemon balm, thyme that need to be cut to keep them from going to seed. I finally have borage which I've heard on here is good for lactating does, but how much is enough and is there such a thing as too much ( I know they should get variety and that isn't a problem)
Herbs can be a nice addition to the usual greens, but because of their medicinal qualities you do need to study them a bit first. For instance, mint and sage can stop lactation, lavender bring on uterine contractions etc. Most medicinal actions of herbs can be found in a good herbal for humans. Make notes - it will save you standing in the garden trying to remember what is safe for which rabbits.


Other stuff that is going in the bucket this month--chicory, plantain, clover, queen annes lace, mallow, dandelion, radish tops, J. artichokes, goldenrod, grasses. Are some of these better than others? Any that should be limited? These are all great rabbit foods and I know of none that need limiting, except perhaps goldenrod. I've never been able to get a rabbit to more than nibble it and so have not bothered to study it much.

They also get willow every day and sometimes bramble from berries or roses, sumac, grape leaves All good and safe except sumac. I have no information, positive or negative, for it so I recommend you check it out and then let us all know. :twisted: I understand that deer eat it, and that is often a good indicator for rabbits.

And finally, do those of you who feed lots of forage just gather it from various wild places? Have you found ways to encourage the plants you want--the ones usually considered weeds? I notice there is lots of plantain in front of the sawmill where the ground is torn up in fall and spring. Also that the chicory grows most thickly along the road edges. I wonder if just grading off an area to remove the sod would result in more desirable plants--or just horse nettle and knapweed :? We have fields surrounding the house and I just walk around and pick what I need. I am careful not to take the roots except when the weeds are in the garden and therefore in my way. I like to use pruning shears for cutting down the plants - that way they come up again within a few weeks for a later harvest. Mowing alternate areas is also helpful. It will give you plants at various stages of development all season.

Many weeds like newly disturbed soil - plantain and chicory particularly. Tilling or turning over a weed patch should yield good results from the millions of weed seeds waiting to reach air and light. Be sure to let your desirable weeds go to seed so you get lots next year.

 

[myrkari]

Rainey, make sure to carefully identify Queen Anne's Lace, if you haven't already. It looks so much like the various Hemlocks.

Regarding this - there's tons of Anthriscus sylvestris (What we call Cow Parsley over here) growing by my house, which I was horribly wary of in case I had mis-identified it and it was Fool's Parsley or conium Hemlock. They all look pretty similar to your Queen Anne's Lace, Daucus carota.

In my search for answers, I found a useful "walkthrough" video online for foragers after human food which showed hemlock right up close... The bigger plants look completely dangerous and creepy, to my mind, because the stem looks like something's bled all over it But the younger plants are particularly similar, and I found that side-by-side video comparison very useful in making sure I knew what I was getting each time I picked some: http://www.eatweeds.co.uk/is-it-hemlock-or-cow-parsley <--this shows the difference in stem shape and construction (including cross-sections of the insides), leaf shape and pattern, texture and appearance, and so on. You can use this to brush up on your Hemlock-spotting skills.

I haven't managed to find a useful video comparison for Fool's Parsley, which you should avoid just as fervently as Hemlock if it grows in your area, but one thing I do know is that Fool's Parsley has long, obvious bracts (they look like thin leaves) dangling down from under the flowers, which Cow Parsley does not have, but which according to pictures, Daucus carota, the wild carrot Queen Anne's Lace, does have. If your plants are in flower you can tell some of them apart this way. If they're not in flower... well, the leaves are slightly different? :hmm: :lol: Cow Parsley smells like a herb, Wild Carrot apparently smells like carrots, and Fool's Parsley smells nasty (so does Hemlock). But I can't tell them apart by their stem shape like I can with conium Hemlock so I would be careful there.

(Water Dropwort Hemlock is one I'm not any good with at at all, because (touch wood) we don't have it round here as it's not wet enough... but I'm led to believe the flower head is more globe-like where the others are flat on top.)

I'm sure you know what you've got in your own garden, but maybe you or a future forum-visitor will find this useful anyway.

--

(Edited to reflect the differences in common plant names between UK/US and include some proper names for clarity!)

 

[MaggieJ]

Rainey, make sure to carefully identify Queen Anne's Lace, if you haven't already. It looks so much like the various Hemlocks.

Regarding this - there's tons of Anthriscus sylvestris (Queen Anne's Lace, though we call it Cow Parsley over here) growing by my house, which I was horribly wary of in case I had mis-identified it and it was Fool's Parsley or conium Hemlock.

In my search for answers, I found a useful "walkthrough" video online for foragers after human food which showed hemlock right up close... The bigger plants look completely dangerous and creepy, to my mind, because the stem looks like something's bled all over it But the younger plants are particularly similar, and I found that side-by-side video comparison very useful in making sure I knew what I was getting each time I picked some: http://www.eatweeds.co.uk/is-it-hemlock-or-cow-parsley <--this shows the difference in stem shape and construction (including cross-sections of the insides), leaf shape and pattern, texture and appearance, and so on.

I haven't managed to find a useful video comparison for Fool's Parsley, which you should avoid just as fervently as Hemlock if it grows in your area, but one thing I do know is that Fool's Parsley has long, obvious bracts (they look like thin leaves) dangling down from under the flowers, and Queen Anne's Lace does not have these. If your plants are in flower you can rule out Fool's Parsley this way. If they're not in flower... well, the leaves are a bit less frilly? :hmm: :lol: Cow Parsley smells like a herb, and Fool's Parsley smells nasty. But I can't tell them apart by their stem shape like I can with conium Hemlock.

(Water Dropwort Hemlock is one I'm not any good with at at all, because (touch wood) we don't have it round here... but I'm led to believe the flower head is more globe-like where the others are flat on top.)

I'm sure you know what you've got in your own garden, but maybe you or a future forum-visitor will find this useful anyway.

This is why we try to use Latin names -- and I admit I was remiss in not doing so in this thread. :nono:

Your information is accurate and helpful, myrkari, but the Queen Anne's Lace we were referring to is Daucus carota and is genetically the same as garden carrots, just not selected for type. It is also called Wild Carrot, which is probably a better name for it.

It appears on some poisonous lists for rabbits because the seeds have powerful medicinal effects (it is an effective contraceptive) and this isn't what we want for the rabbits. The entire plant except the seeds is edible for rabbits.
This site gives some good pointers for identification. The entire plant smells carroty when bruised . . . If it doesn't, then it is not Daucus carota.
http://www.ediblewildfood.com/queen-annes-lace.aspx

Our SAFE PLANTS FOR RABBITS sticky gives the Latin names as well as the common names for many of the most common plants we feed to our rabbits.
safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html

 

[myrkari]

Ooh - regional names strike again! That's my fault for not checking whether we called it the same thing over here in England.

In that case I'm doubly cautious in advising about the comparison between that plant and Fool's Parsley (Aethusa cynapium) because your Queen Anne's Lace, the carrot plant, does have similar dangly bracts. I shall edit my first post to reflect that so that it's correct. Although I'm not sure that Fool's Parsley is native to the continental US, so you might not have to worry about it so much over there.

 

[Rainey]

I find most "weeds" become less palatable and even toxic with age and hot weather so many I only harvest in the spring and turn into homemade hay - golden rod and queens Ann lace are two that come to mind.
A month ago I was feeding dock and burdock and comfrey but don't feed them now that they're flowering. Still feed dandelion even after it flowered and now have some of the other plants that emerged later--chicory and plantain for example. And am just starting to see purslane and ragweed and will be adding them to the bucket.

I always offer grass hay and grains along with forage so the rabbits can eat something else if not in the mood for fresh, this also helps me determine when the weeds are becoming less-desirable because they will be left over and the rabbits are not forced to eat them due to hunger and I will stop collecting that species

All our rabbits have hay in front of them all the time and the lactating does and growing out kits get grain every day.

Some of these weeds I will still cut as the fresh growth will sprout out and I can collect it in the fall when the cool weather returns and the rabbits will eat them again

I have plenty of weeds in my area as much of the farm land has been abandoned (bought up by speculators for future housing :-( ) and gone wild so I don't need to plant more weeds but I do collect dandilion and purslane as these are rarer finds and I plant the seeds along the edge of my veggy gardens
There's plenty to gather but it is so spread out and some of the favorites seem to grow mostly along the road edge. I'm trying to think of a way to have them closer and away from the road
When harvesting I try not to damage the roots or kill the plants and just trim them so they can regrow for a future harvest.

<br /><br /> __________ Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:10 pm __________ <br /><br />

Mostly i just leave in what comes with the other weeds. The exception to this is timothy grass which we planted along with red clover as a nurse crop for alfalfa. When it is at its best (pre-bloom) I do feed it as one of the main greens along with alfalfa, dandelions, chicory, plantain. clover, willow etc.. Planting that alfalfa/clover/timothy patch was one of the most productive things we did for the rabbits. It is dwindling now but it gave us years and years of bunny greens.

How big of an area did you plant? We've tried growing alfalfa for a cover crop/green manure in an occasional empty bed of our garden but it's never grown well. We use buckwheat for short term cover crop and clover and oats and cut some of those to feed the rabbits.


Herbs can be a nice addition to the usual greens, but because of their medicinal qualities you do need to study them a bit first. For instance, mint and sage can stop lactation, lavender bring on uterine contractions etc. Most medicinal actions of herbs can be found in a good herbal for humans. Make notes - it will save you standing in the garden trying to remember what is safe for which rabbits.

Thanks for the reminder--I knew about mint and sage drying up milk. I've never thought of feeding my lavender to the rabbits. But have fed dill and oregano and parsley trimmings and wondered if they should be limited. I also grow echinacea and St. John'swort and chamomile for medicinal use but haven't fed those to rabbits.

These are all great rabbit foods and I know of none that need limiting, except perhaps goldenrod. I've never been able to get a rabbit to more than nibble it and so have not bothered to study it much.

Our rabbits eat the goldenrod when we give them the tips, before they begin to bud.

All good and safe except sumac. I have no information, positive or negative, for it so I recommend you check it out and then let us all know. :twisted: I understand that deer eat it, and that is often a good indicator for rabbits.

We fed sumac last year later in the summer when the willow leaves weren't so good. ( the bugs must have heard that willow is nutritious because they are the first leaves to be really chewed up) The rabbits ate it readily and we saw no ill effects. When branches are cut off it keeps growing new shoots throughout the summer.

Thanks for all the help--you've been so patient with all my questions.

 

[Caldhara]

How do you feel about the calcium intake in your current diet scheme? I feed very similar to what you describe and without exact measurements I get nervous that they are getting to much calcium, though I have had no evidence as of yet to worry. There is lots of it in the alfalfa they get and since my yard is covered in plantain, they get that almost everyday since its in almost every handful of forage pulled. Some days I do purposefully feed only willow or mooseberry leaves or other non plantain weeds to give them a break and on the days they get plantain there are several other weeds included. I know what levels are safe for rabbits but calcium percentages are difficult to regulate in a handful or so of forage, and plantain is apparantly high. Thoughts?

 

[Rainey]

How do you feel about the calcium intake in your current diet scheme? I feed very similar to what you describe and without exact measurements I get nervous that they are getting to much calcium, though I have had no evidence as of yet to worry. There is lots of it in the alfalfa they get and since my yard is covered in plantain, they get that almost everyday since its in almost every handful of forage pulled. Some days I do purposefully feed only willow or mooseberry leaves or other non plantain weeds to give them a break and on the days they get plantain there are several other weeds included. I know what levels are safe for rabbits but calcium percentages are difficult to regulate in a handful or so of forage, and plantain is apparantly high. Thoughts?

I haven't been thinking about the calcium intake--perhaps I should, but when we started a year ago it just wasn't one of the things we were aware of. We don't feed any alfalfa--pellets or any other way. I notice that some days a particular rabbit will eat more of one thing and less of another, and then in a few days might prefer something else. So I'm assuming that if they are offered a variety of feeds i know to be safe and nutritious that they'll find their own balance.
What would you expect to happen if they were getting too much calcium? And is it a matter (as with goats) of balancing calcium and phosphorus or some other nutrient?

 

[Caldhara]

Oh ok, if alfalfa is not part of your rabbits diet then you may not need to worry about too much calcium on that level. Like I said I have yet to see any evidence of too much in my herd, was just wondering if anyone else did...