Fodder sprouting systems, anyone?

[MaggieJ]

I realize I am fortunate to have access to good cheap alfalfa hay. Just want to clarify that these are the small square bales, about 40 pounds each. Still, it makes the natural feeding very easy.

 

[SarahMelisse]

So I spent an entire evening reading this thread, has anybody been successfully feeding nothing but sprouts and hay? What kind of gains are you seeing? Any problems?

I am. So far I have noticed an improvement in coats (I have French angoras) and an increase in litter size. I am feeding 6% of their body weight in 8-day sprouted barley fodder, 1/4 cup black oil sunflower seeds, and free choice orchard grass hay daily. No pellets. I have my whole setup on my website (link below) and what I'm doing. Good luck!

 

[Frecs]

Thought I'd give an update on my sprouting efforts.

As it has warmed up (but still unusually cool for this time of year) my wheat/oats/BOSS/flaxseed mix is sprouting much better than it did a few months ago. In fact, I have added more days to the system so I am feeding 8 day fodder instead of 6 day sprouts. The rabbits are now getting fodder that is 3 to 4 inches tall with a root mass 2 inches thick. The adults eat the whole thing but the buns in the grow out pens tend to leave the root mass.

The rabbits are now getting a diet of: fodder, forage (grass/clover/weeds), hay, and pellets. The pellets are getting more expensive so I am really trying to reach a level of fodder and forage that leads to the rabbits leaving the pellets untouched. As part of my long range plan in this regard, I am planting "fodder/forage" trees and bushes (mulberries, dogwoods, mimosa/silktree, roses...) plus they will get prunings from my growing "orchard". Add in trimmings from the vegetable garden and hopefully the pellets will be a thing of the past. Of course, trees take time to grow so in the short term, I'm keeping my eyes open for areas to forage.

 

[wormrun]

Wormrun, I know you've only been feeding fodder for 6 weeks, but have you noticed a difference in weight gains in your kits compared to pellets? How is over all herd health?

OK, I weighed the 9 babies. 71 oz. total. The 4 blacks weighed 34 oz. The 5 whites weighed 36 oz. They are 16 days old. I guess that will give us a good idea how they are doing going forward. Just a quick recap, Momma is FG/NZB bred to CA buck. Keep me posted so I have a comparison.

My other young rabbits are between 4 months and 5 months of age. They are growing very well, but since I'm new I have no comparison. I feed fodder first thing in the morning, then I fill waters, tend to fodder, offer hay. They always have a little pellets in their container. I fill these once a week with a 1/2 cup to 1 cup each. I know, seems odd. There are two that are stubborn. One loves her pellets and the other loves her hay. I have no idea how much to give them when they are grown up enough to breed. HELP!

Here's two articles for your reading pleasure that have comforted me in my endeavor to explore fodder vs just pellets. The first is called "Rabbits, Rabbits Everywhere" and the other is on chicken comparisons, "The Broiler Challenge."

http://hydroponics.com.au/free-articles/issue114-rabbits-rabbits-everywhere-rabbits
http://lifeatmennageriefarm.blogspot.com/search/label/basic broiler challenge

Thanks!

__________ Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:38 pm __________

Finally I'm having some success with a mini fodder system. I put some holes in one side of a plastic takeout container and put some seeds in (wheat, oats and orchard grass) after soaking them overnight and about 5 days in the shoots are a few inches high. I really need to see if somewhere around here sells barley or stick with the wheat.

Good luck finding Barley. Wheat has worked well for me so even if I found some it would probably be more expensive so I'll stick with the wheat.

Just to clarify, I find that fryers on natural feed grow more slowly than fryers raised on pellets. Mine take 14-16 weeks as opposed to 10-12 weeks. Mine get alfalfa hay free choice, some grass hay, and wheat sprouts/fodder. I do not feed additional grain when they have the sprouted grain. A few more days and the weeds will be far enough advanced to make gathering worthwhile. Gathered greens make up most of their summer diet. They also have a trace mineral salt block.

I have to grow them out for longer, but overall feed costs are much lower than with pellets so my cost per pound is about half what it was when I was feeding pellets. I like the flavour of the meat better too.

Thanks

Well hi there MaggieJ, I am super happy to know you've been down the road of natural feeding, etc. I do plan on growing some other things for them this summer, but for now, they appear to be quite happy with the sprouted grains. The wheat and the barley is the easiest to deal with, the Triticale is just a tad more money. The oats, well, I just started them and I have tails along with extreme temperatures. We'll see if it grew mold. Thanks

Hey there!

I just weighed the bunnies for the 2nd time!!! posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=160451# They are now 24 days old. Besides nursing, they are currently consuming organic pellets, organic hay (Timothy and Meadow) and sprouted Fodder - Wheat, Barley and BOSS (I mix all three). They usually eat along with momma about a 1 to 1 1/2 pounds a day in Fodder. The pellet bowl gets filled daily and it holds about 2 cups, it never goes empty but if I had to put a guess on this I'm thinking 1 to 1 1/2 cups a day get eaten.

Back to weight, mind you there are some serious discrepancies between the largest and the smallest. The total weight gain was 41 oz in 8 days. I did not get the blacks and whites weight separately due to the runaway. Total weight in 24 days is 112 oz for 9 kits. Mom again is NZBXFG and Dad is CA. I hear this is a good thing, but again, I'm a newbie. I have good people around me for which I am grateful. I have not weighed the fodder as they are not weaned yet. When do they typically do that, 4 weeks? I wasn't sure. I didn't know if I should leave mom with babies after 4 weeks? What do you guys recommend? They plowed through a tray of fodder today filled with sprouted oats. This feat would have been enormous had it been a tray of anything other than oats!
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__________ Tue May 07, 2013 6:32 pm __________

So I spent an entire evening reading this thread, has anybody been successfully feeding nothing but sprouts and hay? What kind of gains are you seeing? Any problems?

I am. So far I have noticed an improvement in coats (I have French angoras) and an increase in litter size. I am feeding 6% of their body weight in 8-day sprouted barley fodder, 1/4 cup black oil sunflower seeds, and free choice orchard grass hay daily. No pellets. I have my whole setup on my website (link below) and what I'm doing. Good luck!

I have not done away with the pellets completely. Did all of yours start eating the fodder right away and take out the pellets in one day or did you taper them off? I have one that won't touch it. I suppose I could do tough love and start reducing the pellets. Tell me how you did it. Currently I have 3 1/2 bags of pellets to go through. After that I may never buy them again.

I watched your videos and I saw your article in Mother Earth News BTW, congratulations! Keep posting on the progress of your herd during the fodder switch. I myself have been raising 9 babies since I started and have been tracking the gains. Mom is NSBxFG Dad is CA. I purchased her pregnant. At 16 days the kits weighed 71 oz. (combined all bunnies) and 8 days later, (now 24 days old) when they started eating some solids they gained another 41 oz. Now the combined weight is 112 oz. I will be interested in the next weigh in as they are eating more and more each day. I will also start removing the pellets to get them onto the fodder exclusively. They don't eat a lot of the pellets but they eat about 1 to 1.5 cups a day (combined with mom).

 

[werwinn]

Big Tom wrote:
So I spent an entire evening reading this thread, has anybody been successfully feeding nothing but sprouts and hay? What kind of gains are you seeing? Any problems?

http://fmicrofarm.com/2013/03/21/sprout ... one-month/

I am in the desert and will have to get cooling in my grow space soon for sprouting this Summer.
Take care that barley does not mold when the weather gets hot. The big boys have temperature controls for summertime growing. Wheat may be OK
in summer.

YMWV
werwinn

 

[Bigredfeather]

Wow! What a thread this is. I would like to add some of my experiences to the discussion. I first saw a fodder set-up about 8 months ago. It was at an organic dairy near me. His set-up can produce 240 lbs per day, which was quite impressive. I didn't ask many questions at the time, but in the days that followed I sent Google on a mission to answer the many questions I had concerning the growing process, nutritional info, and the cost savings everyone was claiming. Within 2 weeks I built a small system using a PVC pipe frame and $3 Sterilte totes from Wal-Mart(much like the ones pictured in this thread) and seeded it with soaked Barley. I used the flood the top trays and have them drain into the trays below method. The anticipation was building as the first trays I seeded were beginning to sprout and grow. The sprouts reached the 6" height and I introduced them to my goats and chickens. Goats took a little time to start consuming, but the chickens loved it. After a few more days, I noticed a foul order from my system and found several trays moldy. Cleaned the whole system and started over. Everything was going good for a few days, then the same thing. It was frustrating because my animals were loving it, but I kept getting set back. Time to do something different! I did more research and discovered the flood and drain to the tray below was part of the problem. All the commercial-made systems used long trays that flooded one end and the water ran the length of the tray under the seed and drained at the opposite end. The water coming from the top was promoting the mold growth. With the number of animals I was wanting to feed fodder, a small homemade system wasn't going to cut it, and the mold thing was costing me money. So, I decided to seek out a commercial type system. I ended up buying a system from Crop King. It has 24 trays that are 9" wide and 6'-6" long. I had a few initial hiccups, but I've worked thru them and the system is working great. I can produce up to 105 lbs of fodder per day. In 3 months, I have yet to have any trays get moldy. That said, if you are going to build your own system, try to design one that doesn't irrigate from the top. You will save yourself some frustration. I've seen some nice designs on the internet.

Now, for what brought me here. I have raised rabbits in the past, but found the cost to feed them out and maintain parent stock wasn't worth the cost. It was one more bag of something to buy at the feed store, and I had trouble getting them have babies, then if they did, they either ate them or neglected them. I think the problem was bad stock. But, now that I am growing fodder, at least I can feed them a cheaper feed that I am already growing for my other animals. It's encouraging to see people on here feeding fodder to their rabbits. By pure luck, I found a large rabbitry that is getting out and they have all their stock for sale. My neighbor is getting first choice at what he wants, then I can buy whatever I want, so I should have a chance at some great stock! They have Calis and NZ parent stock that they cross. I have all the equipment I need, so it should be a quick start.

Finally, I read a few pages back someone asking about at what stage of fodder growth to feed to rabbits. This is where I have a rabbit digestion question. Do rabbits have a digestive system that is equipped to break down plant material better than most mono-gastric species? I know my goat can digest it completely due to having a chambered digestive system. I feed them fodder that is at 8 days growth, but I feed my pigs and chickens fodder that is at 4-5 days so they can get the most out of it.

I am looking forward to getting back into rabbits and doing so using fodder. Barley fodder is very sweet, and I am thinking it will effect the taste of the meat, as it has made my goat milk much sweeter.

Sorry for the long post. You are likely going to be seeing questions on here from me in the future, and I'd be glad to try and answer any fodder questions you may have.

 

[mystang89]

I know somewhere in the 21 pages of stuff on this thread I saw either a link or a post that said at what day the protein was at it's best to feed the rabbits. I honestly couldn't remember what page it was on though. I'll try to look it up sometime.

 

[Miss M]

Welcome to RabbitTalk, Bigredfeather! :welcomewagon:

It's great that you have some experience with this that you can share already!

It does sound like you have a wonderful opportunity before you to get some great stock for getting back into rabbits. Since you already have all the equipment, it will certainly be a quick launch!

Finally, I read a few pages back someone asking about at what stage of fodder growth to feed to rabbits. This is where I have a rabbit digestion question. Do rabbits have a digestive system that is equipped to break down plant material better than most mono-gastric species? I know my goat can digest it completely due to having a chambered digestive system. I feed them fodder that is at 8 days growth, but I feed my pigs and chickens fodder that is at 4-5 days so they can get the most out of it.

They may be mono-gastric, but they have a method of compensation which is nearly unique to lagomorphs. Their food passes completely through their system once, and partially breaks down and ferments. They pass nutrient-rich cecotropes, special feces which they reingest directly from the anus. This passes through the digestive system a second time, in a process not unlike chewing cud. The rabbit is able to absorb the nutrients from the cecotropes. The waste from this second process goes on to form the normal, spherical feces we often call "bunny berries" here.

It is possible to go for years and never see a cecotrope. A rabbit eating cecotropes will appear to be simply grooming itself at first glance. A cecotrope looks a lot like a mulberry, and can come in any length from less than an inch to several inches long. It looks like a bunch of small bunny berries stuck together. Unlike regular rabbit feces, cecotropes have a strong, unpleasant odor.

Seeing more than an occasional cecotrope could mean that your rabbits are getting a diet that is richer in nutrients than they need.

Rabbits are naturally herbivores, so they are designed to break down plant material, and they seem to do it well.

As far as at what point is fodder ideal to feed to rabbits? I do recall seeing a chart in this thread somewhere. I can't remember what day it reached about 15 - 16% protein. I have to find it.

Many of us are going to be very interested in seeing your fodder system, learning how much it cost, what it requires, and so on.

 

[mystang89]

A little birdie came along and dropped this link off to me

http://rabbittalk.com/post113721.html#p113721 Hope that is helpful.

Thank you little birdie.

 

[Bigredfeather]

Miss M, thank you for the detailed lesson on rabbit digestion. I didn't know any of that information and that clarifies at which stage of fodder growth it should be fed to rabbits........day 8 in my system.

Mystang89, thank you for the link.

These are the nutritional values for 8 day growth that Crop King gave me based on testing done at Clemson University
Crude Protein........18.5%
Fiber
-ADF..... 22.9%
-NDF..... 37%
Fat......... 5.3%
Phosphorus .83%
Potassium... 1.62%
Calcium..... .07%
Magnesium... .22%
Sulfur...... .31%
Zinc........ 50 ppm
Copper...... 10 ppm
Manganese... 26 ppm
Iron........ 70 ppm

Now, with this information given, how does it stack up as a complete nutritional source for rabbits? Lacking anything? Low in anything? Too high in anything?

__________ Wed May 15, 2013 10:57 am __________

I see many variations on seed soaking time. I've had the best germination rate soaking my barley for 2 hours, letting it rest for an hour, then soaking an additional 2 hours. If the temp in your fodder area is warmer than 65 degrees, you will see little tails coming from your seed in 20 hours or less after soaking.

 

[mystang89]

Don't think you're missing anything as that info sounds pretty good.

As far as soaking time I couldn't really tell you. I use wheat so that may make what I do different but I've soaked for 6 hours 12 hours and 24 hours before each time putting in a small amount of bleach to lesson the chances of mold. I was unable to tell any difference between the times. I guess maybe 24 hours might have taken a little longer to grow but nothing too bad. Now I just put the seeds in the bucket the night before and when I wake up the next morning, if I remember, I'll put them in the flat.

 

[SarahMelisse]

I have not done away with the pellets completely. Did all of yours start eating the fodder right away and take out the pellets in one day or did you taper them off? I have one that won't touch it. I suppose I could do tough love and start reducing the pellets. Tell me how you did it. Currently I have 3 1/2 bags of pellets to go through. After that I may never buy them again.

I watched your videos and I saw your article in Mother Earth News BTW, congratulations! Keep posting on the progress of your herd during the fodder switch. I myself have been raising 9 babies since I started and have been tracking the gains. Mom is NSBxFG Dad is CA. I purchased her pregnant. At 16 days the kits weighed 71 oz. (combined all bunnies) and 8 days later, (now 24 days old) when they started eating some solids they gained another 41 oz. Now the combined weight is 112 oz. I will be interested in the next weigh in as they are eating more and more each day. I will also start removing the pellets to get them onto the fodder exclusively. They don't eat a lot of the pellets but they eat about 1 to 1.5 cups a day (combined with mom).

First of all, thanks for the congratulations and THANK YOU for watching/reading!

I transitioned my rabbits (and chickens) over the course of a month. I started by offering the fodder as a treat and then slowly increased how much fodder I gave them over three weeks until they were at a full serving of fodder. I always offered fodder first in the morning and then fed their normal serving of pellets in the evening. They didn't like the root mat at first, but slowly they started eating it just fine.

Once they were receiving the full serving of fodder (6% of their body weight), on the fourth week I slowly decreased their serving of pellets in the evening. I noticed by the end of week two though that they weren't really eating the pellets anyway.

So, morning feeding was fodder, slowly increasing to a full portion over 3 weeks. Evening feeding was normal portion of pellets decreasing AFTER 3 weeks.

I had no problems whatsoever with diarrhea, wool block, weight loss, or loss of appetite. In fact, one of my does that has the hardest time conceiving, (normally has 4-6 kits and doesn't lactate right away) had 9 kits after being on fodder for 2 months and is nursing them all! Craziness.

Here is the formula for calculating how much a daily serving of fodder is for you rabbit since it is based on weight:
(Weight of rabbit)________lbs. x 0.06 = ___________lbs. (fodder weight to feed daily)

I was feeding the rabbits 5% of their body weight in fodder, but it seemed to be just shy of what they wanted so I increased their feed to 6% and they are doing beautifully. I feed my chickens about 4% of their body weight in fodder by the way.<br /><br />__________ Thu May 23, 2013 6:44 pm __________<br /><br />Who doesn't love pictures of baby rabbits?! Just some photos of my angoras (and chickens) eating their sprouted barley fodder... and LOVIN' it! A couple kits look a little blurry, but let's face it... those suckers never stop moving.

 

[Frecs]

I have not phased out pellets yet as I'm still working out issues with the fodder and what the rabbits will eat. I was up to feeding them 8 day fodder with a good 4-5 inch growth (this is a wheat/oats/BOSS mix with sometimes lentils and flaxseed added). But, I found that the rootmat/unsprouted seeds was fermenting a bit by that time. The chickens loved that, but the rabbits did not. So, there was a lot of waste. I was also giving the rabbits some sprouted seed at the 3 day growth point -- which they LOVE! So, at this point, I've reduced to 6 days of growing.

I start out with more seed than needed for a tray (plastic wash basin). Rabbits get some of day three's sprouts (just shoots) and day six's (shoots and grass) and chickens get unsprouted seeds, day three sprouts, and rabbit leftovers of day 6 grass-root-mass. This reduces waste to close to zero and no fermentation or molding.

Now, I can begin to increase the amount of sprouts I grow (plus forage) to fully replace the pellets. Talk about learning curves! geeze....

 

[Miss M]

Wow... that is too cool! I will try this eventually!

 

[Toady]

I'm getting frustrated with my little system, I've just had to throw out my 2nd lot of fodder because of what looks to be mould, just above the root mat there's a bunch of tiny black spots that turn into a black mass when pressed together. I'm not game to give it to the bunnies in case it causes tummy problems, here's hoping this next lot I've got sprouting don't get it (at least it's going to use, the worm farm's getting it)

 

[mystang89]

With the temp from outside increasing I've noticed mold starting to increase as well so I've had to start thinking of a new way for the trays to drain better.

 

[Frecs]

With the temp from outside increasing I've noticed mold starting to increase as well so I've had to start thinking of a new way for the trays to drain better.

And, I thought it was just me...or this new bag of wheat!!

We've had a LOT of rain the last few weeks and I think between the higher temps and the humidity, I'm getting a fermenting/molding mess by day two or three. I'm about to rethink my whole process of how to feed grains to my rabbits.

 

[ApplegateRanch]

she also sells the plans for the system for $20....

Her plan price has now jumped to $29.

I recently bought 56 pounds (a 1 bushel sack) of winter rye seed for $27 at our "local" grain elevator, and have about 10-12 pounds left after planting a plot. Some of that which could be used for sprouting/foddering, but I have only seen wheat, barley, and oats mentioned. Is the rye safe for them when sprouted?

We also raised sunflowers and corn this year for seed & grain for the chickens. Fortunately, those stalks haven't been tilled under yet, so from other posts, those are a useful rabbit feed?

Currently I have a senor buck & doe, and a junior doe, all American chinchilla, that we raise for meat. Our town's feed store went out of business, so now it is 50 miles round trip, minimum for high priced pellets; or 120 miles round trip 'to the big city' when we have major shopping to do, for lower prices that come with storage issues.

 

[Frecs]

she also sells the plans for the system for $20....

Her plan price has now jumped to $29.

I recently bought 56 pounds (a 1 bushel sack) of winter rye seed for $27 at our "local" grain elevator, and have about 10-12 pounds left after planting a plot. Some of that which could be used for sprouting/foddering, but I have only seen wheat, barley, and oats mentioned. Is the rye safe for them when sprouted?

We also raised sunflowers and corn this year for seed & grain for the chickens. Fortunately, those stalks haven't been tilled under yet, so from other posts, those are a useful rabbit feed?

Currently I have a senor buck & doe, and a junior doe, all American chinchilla, that we raise for meat. Our town's feed store went out of business, so now it is 50 miles round trip, minimum for high priced pellets; or 120 miles round trip 'to the big city' when we have major shopping to do, for lower prices that come with storage issues.

I assume you planted the winter rye as a ground cover/living mulch/green manure? Well, it can double as rabbit food!

I believe you can sprout the rye but it isn't as beneficial as barley or wheat and I'm thinking that I read that the grain shouldn't be fed at but a fraction of the rabbits' diet. Thus, my take-away from what I read was--grow the grass and collect as forage rather than growing fodder with it. But, I could be wrong...

Yes, feed the corn and sunflower stalks to the rabbits. You can dry them to use over an extended period.

You might also want to consider adding some clovers, radishes, rape seed...to your ground cover of rye. You will have some great winter forage for the rabbits with that.

 

[ApplegateRanch]

Thanks, Tina. I'll harvest those stalks & stems, and store them instead of tilling them under; and also share the sunflower seeds with the rabbits, instead of giving them all to the chickens.

The rye was partially be used as green manure, but I planned on harvesting at least half the grain, both for our chickens and for reseeding next year; and for straw. Ultimately, some will go in, thinly, to enhance the dry-pasture we lease out to a neighbor for his cattle. We have a little over 300 acres of mixed pines & dry land grazing, plus a bit of decent 'bottom land'. Catch is, all water has to be hauled from the town's water station.

A 12 by 80 strip where some of the sunflowers were this summer still needs to be prepped & planted to winter wheat.

There's also a dozen Jerusalem artichokes that are almost ready to harvest, and those will be replanted next year to increase the planting. I know those are good for chickens; and probably the rabbits, too? More stalks and stems to dry, too?