fawn or tort? I gotta know!

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Dood":1go2mdpa said:
What are the parents colours?

Self based rabbits cannot produce agouti (ie fawn or frosty)
Click to expand...

Exactly why I'm dying to know!

This is one of my Steel test breedings...

Dam is Tort. She is aa B_ C_ Dd ee
Sire is the "Self" Chocolate buck that threw Agouti kits with a Self Black dam a few months ago... and spawned my Steel reseach...
He should have been aa bb Cc Dd Ee, but I've been suspecting Aa bb Cc Dd Ese

So, if this kit is a Fawn, I know the buck is Steel.

Those very black kits will be Ese if Steel, and in the litters I've had that are Steel, they'll look very black like this, even though they could be agouti.

I noticed she had no Chocolate, so I think she doesn't carry it... You'd think if she did, there'd be just one in these 8 with a Chocolate sire... So, if this kit is a Tort, I'm guessing it would have to be Black or Blue Tort... it looks like neither.

__________ Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:04 pm __________

So, on the slim chance she could still carry Chocolate, which makes a Tort closer looking to Fawn.... This doesn't look like a Lilac Tort because of the richer color and dark lacing. The lacing doesn't look Chocolate, but if it were, would I also see Chocolate shading elsewhere? I really think this is a Fawn and I can hardly wait to be certain. It will confirm what I have been thinking about this buck and his sister who both ended up with Steels in their offspring.
 
The only one I know that can pass for orange/fawn color is chocolate tort, and they still will have a slightly darker color inside their ears as kits, never white.

[album]2578[/album]

[album]2664[/album]

GEDC6074.JPGGEDC8992.JPG
 
Can anyone else zoom in on that ear lacing on my kit? I can't imagine it being Chocolate. Oh, I swear it's Black. Those Torts are Black, right? Could one be Blue? It's a little lighter, but I think it's still a Black Tort. The lacing on the "Fawn" is exactly the same color as the back of the Torts ears.
 
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My avatar is a Chocolate based Fawn. This kit looks identical with the exception of black lacing... So, I'm hopeful that I've solved part of the mystery. I'm just waiting on two more litters to grow another week or so... One is from the same sire.
 
Chocolate tort is possible - chocolate in torts is the same colour as fawn and not your typical chocolate seen in self chocolates :( plus if you add in wideband it makes torts look even more like fawns/oranges

Blue torts have a distinct smokey haze over them.

:popcorn: waiting to see what the "white" kit adds to the puzzle or if the "blacks" start to get gold tipping :mrgreen:
 
Dood":1s2xfutu said:
Chocolate tort is possible - chocolate in torts is the same colour as fawn and not your typical chocolate seen in self chocolates :( plus if you add in wideband it makes torts look even more like fawns/oranges

Blue torts have a distinct smokey haze over them.

:popcorn: waiting to see what the "white" kit adds to the puzzle or if the "blacks" start to get gold tipping :mrgreen:
Click to expand...
Yes, me too. The eyes will open in a week and I'll know more about the white one.

Thanks, guys! I'll post more pictures in a week.
 
Nice to see all these people giving such great advice-I am soaking all the info on colors in but just wanted to say how adorable these buns are!
 
I hope it's black I'm seeing.. I'm wanting to see black so bad that I hardly trust myself. :roll:

__________ Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:28 pm __________

The Fawn is surely a Fawn. White eye circles are more evident now.

The white rabbit does not appear REW (just opened his eyes and there's not trace of red), though he's solid white.

I've had one other rabbit that appeared this way... blue-gray eyes and solid white body to this day. Is an Agouti Chinchilla non-extension more likely to be solid white than a Self Chin non-extension? Thinking about it... Mom would not appear to carry Chocolate, but I still believe she could carry dilute, though not one of these kits appears dilute. How odd would it be for her to produce a BEW? Her sire produced the other mystery white I had. Not one trace of color anywhere. This here white kit is even less likely to be anything but black-based, since this whole litter appears to be black based...
 
Self, chin and non-extension is a sallander and not all white.

Chinchilla based frosties are much whiter than shaded based frosties. The ears and top of the tail will be the first to show frosting

Looks like your "self chocolate" is a steel chocolate agouti and all the black kits are either black agouti steel or self black who carry steel but you'll never know unless you test breed :(
 
This is what I hoped to prove with this breeding. He's given me Steels in the past, but I needed to prove it was him. With this Tort mom, I can prove that. What I hadn't thought of is that all the Steels would be Ese and so far all of my Ese rabbits from other litters have appeared Solid and not Steel. So, I realized I would need to rely on his one other mystery... that he produced Agouti with a Self (my first clue he was actually Agouti Steel, though Solid-appearing).

I've been watching a "Black" kit from another litter he sired. He's just over week old and, though still all black, he's developing an undertone of tawny coloring at the nape and top of head. So, he's a Steel from the same sire.

That buck's mystery is solved. :)

I'm still curious about what makes the solid white kit that is likely not dilute.... In other litters with Chinchilla based Pearls or Frosties, there has been color, even if just a bit, there is always color on te tips. All but the one solid white I had from the sire of this dam. What makes one so solid white while all the rest are tipped with color?
 
I've had some frosty kits that looked all white at birth. I couldn't tell if they were rew or frosty until they opened up their eyes. Yours will probably get some color later...or not. There is actually a breeder in PA that has developed a line of frosty FG that show no color at all.
 

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