Explain something about correctness with pedigrees

[mi_ku]

If you are going to change the name of a proven animal, what's the point of even keeping pedigrees? You can call an animal anything you want but why change the name on the pedigree? Since rabbit pedigrees are so dependent on the honor system, it seems that much more important to keep the name on the pedigree.

FWIW, you can change the name of an AKC dog, provided they don't have any registered offspring. (I think titles may affect that too, but I'm not sure how.) Part of the reason we have so many different dog registries in the US, is b/c the AKC started requiring DNA tests on dogs who sire 7 or more litters. A lot of dogs had their AKC registration called into question and other breeders switched registries before their dogs could be tested. The alternative registries will give full registration based on AKC pedigrees, despite failed DNA tests or limited registration.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

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FWIW, you can change the name of an AKC dog, provided they don't have any registered offspring. (I think titles may affect that too, but I'm not sure how.) Part of the reason we have so many different dog registries in the US, is b/c the AKC started requiring DNA tests on dogs who sire 7 or more litters. A lot of dogs had their AKC registration called into question and other breeders switched registries before their dogs could be tested. The alternative registries will give full registration based on AKC pedigrees, despite failed DNA tests or limited registration.

No, the ONLY reasons permitted to change an AKC registered name are a Misspelling, trademark/copyright infringement or a duplication that got missed by their computers. Now, dogs of different breeds can be given the same registered name, and if multiple dogs of a single breed are given the same name, the AKC will NUMBER the name- as in 'Beauregard Snoops XXV' who is no relation to 'Beauregard Snoops V' of the same breed.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Terry: When we registered our dogs it was through a registrar just like rabbits at maturity (1 year in dogs) The AKC and CKC require a litter reg FIRST. That is a chunk of money right there. Anyone who is trying to put one over on people DON'T reg their litters or their dogs, as they are out to make more money.. Those in the know and serious breeders know the lines of their breeds inside and out and basically don't deal with these fly by night breeders or mills which have absolutely nothing to do with the show world.The dog world like the rabbit world is actually quite small in the end!The big difference in rabbits is the breeder's work is recognized first while the dog is recognized first in the dog world! People need to educate themselves about the meanings of terms like pedigree and registration papers in the first place. otherwise its all on them. In Canada the CKC holds a legal registry of dogs approved through the Pedigree Act. In the States its a different ball of wax as there seems to be all sorts of groups reg. dogs and claiming pure dogs,but here its very difficult to produce fraudulent reg papers! The Animal Pedigree Act does not have a section concerning rabbits, so any pedigrees here are considered "personal records" and are not legal. As to why that person changed a name on a rabbit I have no idea why although they DID keep the original prefix. Unless the tat has been changed there's not much one can do. This is really someone who either doesn't know much or will not be in the rabbit breeding business much longer!

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Terry: When we registered our dogs it was through a registrar just like rabbits at maturity (1 year in dogs) The AKC and CKC require a litter reg FIRST. That is a chunk of money right there. Anyone who is trying to put one over on people DON'T reg their litters or their dogs, as they are out to make more money.. Those in the know and serious breeders know the lines of their breeds inside and out and basically don't deal with these fly by night breeders or mills which have absolutely nothing to do with the show world.The dog world like the rabbit world is actually quite small in the end!The big difference in rabbits is the breeder's work is recognized first while the dog is recognized first in the dog world! People need to educate themselves about the meanings of terms like pedigree and registration papers in the first place. otherwise its all on them. In Canada the CKC holds a legal registry of dogs approved through the Pedigree Act. In the States its a different ball of wax as there seems to be all sorts of groups reg. dogs and claiming pure dogs,but here its very difficult to produce fraudulent reg papers! The Animal Pedigree Act does not have a section concerning rabbits, so any pedigrees here are considered "personal records" and are not legal. As to why that person changed a name on a rabbit I have no idea why although they DID keep the original prefix. Unless the tat has been changed there's not much one can do. This is really someone who either doesn't know much or will not be in the rabbit breeding business much longer!

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I know BIG NAME Show breeders who have 'accidental' breedings, register the litters, and sell the pups with what could be 'false' pedigrees. The sires names are chosen by "who is most likely to have jumped the fence' or 'who do the newborn pups look most like?" The ISCA backed off supporting DNA tracking when it was noted that some "sneaky" breedings would show up-(breed identifying alleles)- IE: throwing in afghan for more coat, greyhound for sleekness. The chair if the ISCA Health Committee, stated, on a e-list forum MANY years ago that "some afghan genetics are still showing up as phenotypes" Believe me, I had one of those dogs, he looked like a red Afghan!!
It is hard to produce fraudulent papers in many countries for dogs- as the controlling registries DEMAND proof of health and fitness, compliance with the breed standard etc. Only at international shows have I seen judges USE the eye charts and printed breed standards in the ring--the dogs are judged by the standard, not against each other first. I LIKE the ARBA stance of using a registrar-- it at least weeds out the DQs and really poor specimens. A friend of mine, who bred rabbits many years ago, tells me they registered their rabbits using photos- But the ARBA has changed since then-- it may be harder to get a hold of a registrar, but at least one cannot pass off one rabbit as many!
In all animal venues- it is the BREEDER or SELLER whose ethics need to be trusted. If a person is paying for a pedigreed animal, (not registered) and not getting a pedigree, they may as well go to a Livestock auction or get something off Freecycle or Craigslist. either way, the person is starting from ground zero.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

First off DNA testing IS routinely done. I have no idea what you are talking about in your post about an Afghan, and all AKC /CKC judges DO judge by the standard!!!!! The one who meets it the best wins that day just like judges do at ARBA. Fortunately there are rarely any "sneaky" breedings in top Breeders' as they use AI and keep their studs away from the bitches because its in their best interests to. What the ISCA is I have no idea but like I said, in the States there seems to be a plethora of "Clubs" that register animals in different ways. Up here in Canada this is not so, and as Ladysown is talking about a specific event here in Canada that is what the situation is HERE. Like I said before we reg. our dogs at one year and only after they had their eyes/hearing cleared plus the correct bite THEN they were reg. with pictures from all sides. DNA is routinely done now too rule out genetic disease as well.The rabbit industry simply does not have the legalities that the other animal registries have, simply because no group has come forward to apply for the legal right to hold a "Stud Book". When a rabbit is registered through ARBA it receives the "R" tattoo right away from the registrar in the right ear and then Arba sends a certificate of registration with a new #, which is then put in the right ear.The call name of the rabbit is moot as there are thousands of rabbits and names can quite easily repeat.Like I also said in another post it doesn't really matter the name or the breeder as that rabbit must stand on its own merit. A good rabbit is a good rabbit no matter how many names it has as well as adding false info to a bad rabbit doesn't make it any better.One must always go by ones knowledge of the standard and not really pay attention to "names" both with rabbits and dogs!

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I guess we are talking about two different planets, then, cuz Bally came from a "top" show breeder, and if there was ever a red afghan looking Irish setter, it was he!!! The FCI shows can have Multiple 'winners' in a class, AKC shows do not. AKC is 'best represents the breed' while FCI is 'MEETS the standard" with a scale of points for each judging point. Eyes,(color, shape, size) tail set, body structure, coat color, condition even FITNESS!!! And unless you have sat ringside and watched judge shrug multiple times a day, and then hand out ribbons in catalog order, ypo haven't been to enough AKC shows.
The rabbit shows are like AKC dog shows in that the judges interpretation of the standard and what he/she prefers comes into play. Registration of other animals in Non-US countries is controlled, unlike here, where the AKC/ ckc, and others are 'for profit' organization. Heck, we even have 'organizations' certifying Service Dogs for 50 dollars a pop, no questions asked!!Yet, Federal law does not require 'certification" just "training'

but then, who am I-- just someone who had some funny looking Irish setters that came from a "well respected' breeder/judge. My first 15 Irish LOOKED like Irish, the last two-- well, a lot of changes happened to the show setters in 25 years.
The ISCA is the Irish Setter parent breed club for the AKC Much like ACRBA is the parent breed club of AmChins to the ARBA

 

[mi_ku]

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FWIW, you can change the name of an AKC dog, provided they don't have any registered offspring. (I think titles may affect that too, but I'm not sure how.) Part of the reason we have so many different dog registries in the US, is b/c the AKC started requiring DNA tests on dogs who sire 7 or more litters. A lot of dogs had their AKC registration called into question and other breeders switched registries before their dogs could be tested. The alternative registries will give full registration based on AKC pedigrees, despite failed DNA tests or limited registration.

No, the ONLY reasons permitted to change an AKC registered name are a Misspelling, trademark/copyright infringement or a duplication that got missed by their computers. Now, dogs of different breeds can be given the same registered name, and if multiple dogs of a single breed are given the same name, the AKC will NUMBER the name- as in 'Beauregard Snoops XXV' who is no relation to 'Beauregard Snoops V' of the same breed.

I looked into changing my own dogs name, there is an application on the AKC website. http://www.akc.org/pdfs/ADCG01.pdf
"The name of an AKC-registered dog may be changed provided the dog was whelped in the United States. [...] However, no change in name will be recorded by the American Kennel Club after the dog has produced or sired an AKC-registered litter or has received an award at an AKC-licensed or member event."

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

When you register a dog in AKC you must give THREE choices for your name They will pick the first one if it doesn't already exist or go on to the next choice. If all 3 choices are already taken, they will put together something from your choices in a random order, This did happen with one of our dogs.They did not add numbers to the dog's name. This is most likely why dog reg. names seem weird.. gotta come up with something new!