Meadowlark22
Active member
Just want to say this is NOT about being upset about a rabbit judged, as I respectfully understand each judge is entittled to their observation of the breed.
In mid January this year, I bought a New Zealand REW buck for $300 (and last minute doe for $85) from an unnamed ARBA judge who is also a breeder. I am new to owning show quality rabbits, but I would like to say I am well researched, and very familiar with color genetics. While I was told from another source that they were a good breeder, they were also a salesperson wanting to move their stock along. I purchased a 4th place Nationals NZ REW buck, and am quite happy with his type. Huge BUT… they refused to answer my questions (or directly lied) about information I asked until after cash was exchanged. I should have backed out, but they were highly recommended by my rabbit mentor, so I thought it would be better to trust my mentor on that.
Note: All correspondence (relating to below sections) took place 3 weeks in advance over the course of 2-3 days.
Issues I Had:
1) I asked for the pedigree, registration, and grand champion papers to be ready on purchase day (as they have to be signed over), and the breeder agreed. They showed up with none of the above. They explained the registration was being mailed into ARBA for his grand championship that he didn’t have “quite yet”. Okay, then where’s the pedigree? On their computer back home, but no worries, give them my email and they’ll message it to me. Still don’t have either registration or grand championship papers to this day. I finally got the pedigree right after I got the doe’s.
2) I needed him to breed with both my REW does and my broken black doe and produce showable kits: no steel, agouti, etc. (Broken/REW would be for personal use as their pedigree is not worth selling to others). I let them know in advance that I needed to breed both, but when I drove the 9 hours to meet them (again after much written communication on both sides to make sure he and the new doe were worth the drive), they avoided answering the most basic of questions. Asked the color he’s carrying, “Don’t worry about it, he’s a proven breeder with over 5 litters!” Well, they also breed lilacs NZs, the most recessive of all NZ coat colors, and I’m sure they are well aware what he’s carrying. It took until after cash was exchanged that they let me know, “Oh, yeah, so he’s ‘carrying’ steel.” Found out yesterday with a new litter from him, he’s not just carrying steel, he is steel AND agouti so it shows up in the babies! Not a single kit is keepable for show from the litter, even if they ended up having amazing type. So now I have to look for an additional black buck for my broken doe.
3) I ordered a last minute REW doe as I am trying to breed for maximum diversity from a breeding chart (for sheep) I found by chance. I explained my current does were underweight, and I needed a hefty female (preferably breaking 11lbs) to pair with the new buck to bring weight back to my lines. They said they happened to have just the doe, although she would be a bit young and I would have to wait to breed. No biggie. Dam was 10.5lbs, and her sire was larger! Sweet! After her pedigree was emailed to me (a week after purchase, required constant hounding), I found out her sire was not “larger.” Oh no. He was 9lbs. Even if I got the average of the parents, I would have a 10lbs doe… I needed 11lbs+.
4) I was hoping to continue showing the buck I purchased. I asked them, the ARBA judge, if that was possible. Of course it is! Just have to wait 90 days after sale. Awesome! The championship papers from last fall state the buck was 10.5lbs entering show. When I brought him home, he weighed 11.5lbs… and not overweight. So he is too big to show, and I am forever going to bring a scale with me when looking to purchase another rabbit.
5) Recently found out that the registration paper that they sent in for the buck, they registered the judge who examined it as themselves! I don’t know if that is legal or not, but some part of me says that’s hinky. Owning the rabbit, then getting it examined by a judge (themselves) to say, “Yeah, it’s registrable.” And I found out because they sent me a picture of the registration BEFORE mailing it in so I could have a copy. They told me on purchase (back in mid January) that it was already in the mail either to or from ARBA itself.
Goes to show (ta-da-tss), that while I have met very nice and helpful judges in the past, not all of them actually hold to being honest in their transactions. My newbie mistake was believing that if the breeder is an “ARBA judge”, that they would hold to a higher standard as an example to new and potential members.
FYI: Whole reason I brought this up was because his first litter with my broken doe was born yesterday. The kits all turned out to be agouti/steel and broken agouti.
If anyone knows of a good NZ Black breeder south of King City, CA, please let me know!
In mid January this year, I bought a New Zealand REW buck for $300 (and last minute doe for $85) from an unnamed ARBA judge who is also a breeder. I am new to owning show quality rabbits, but I would like to say I am well researched, and very familiar with color genetics. While I was told from another source that they were a good breeder, they were also a salesperson wanting to move their stock along. I purchased a 4th place Nationals NZ REW buck, and am quite happy with his type. Huge BUT… they refused to answer my questions (or directly lied) about information I asked until after cash was exchanged. I should have backed out, but they were highly recommended by my rabbit mentor, so I thought it would be better to trust my mentor on that.
Note: All correspondence (relating to below sections) took place 3 weeks in advance over the course of 2-3 days.
Issues I Had:
1) I asked for the pedigree, registration, and grand champion papers to be ready on purchase day (as they have to be signed over), and the breeder agreed. They showed up with none of the above. They explained the registration was being mailed into ARBA for his grand championship that he didn’t have “quite yet”. Okay, then where’s the pedigree? On their computer back home, but no worries, give them my email and they’ll message it to me. Still don’t have either registration or grand championship papers to this day. I finally got the pedigree right after I got the doe’s.
2) I needed him to breed with both my REW does and my broken black doe and produce showable kits: no steel, agouti, etc. (Broken/REW would be for personal use as their pedigree is not worth selling to others). I let them know in advance that I needed to breed both, but when I drove the 9 hours to meet them (again after much written communication on both sides to make sure he and the new doe were worth the drive), they avoided answering the most basic of questions. Asked the color he’s carrying, “Don’t worry about it, he’s a proven breeder with over 5 litters!” Well, they also breed lilacs NZs, the most recessive of all NZ coat colors, and I’m sure they are well aware what he’s carrying. It took until after cash was exchanged that they let me know, “Oh, yeah, so he’s ‘carrying’ steel.” Found out yesterday with a new litter from him, he’s not just carrying steel, he is steel AND agouti so it shows up in the babies! Not a single kit is keepable for show from the litter, even if they ended up having amazing type. So now I have to look for an additional black buck for my broken doe.
3) I ordered a last minute REW doe as I am trying to breed for maximum diversity from a breeding chart (for sheep) I found by chance. I explained my current does were underweight, and I needed a hefty female (preferably breaking 11lbs) to pair with the new buck to bring weight back to my lines. They said they happened to have just the doe, although she would be a bit young and I would have to wait to breed. No biggie. Dam was 10.5lbs, and her sire was larger! Sweet! After her pedigree was emailed to me (a week after purchase, required constant hounding), I found out her sire was not “larger.” Oh no. He was 9lbs. Even if I got the average of the parents, I would have a 10lbs doe… I needed 11lbs+.
4) I was hoping to continue showing the buck I purchased. I asked them, the ARBA judge, if that was possible. Of course it is! Just have to wait 90 days after sale. Awesome! The championship papers from last fall state the buck was 10.5lbs entering show. When I brought him home, he weighed 11.5lbs… and not overweight. So he is too big to show, and I am forever going to bring a scale with me when looking to purchase another rabbit.
5) Recently found out that the registration paper that they sent in for the buck, they registered the judge who examined it as themselves! I don’t know if that is legal or not, but some part of me says that’s hinky. Owning the rabbit, then getting it examined by a judge (themselves) to say, “Yeah, it’s registrable.” And I found out because they sent me a picture of the registration BEFORE mailing it in so I could have a copy. They told me on purchase (back in mid January) that it was already in the mail either to or from ARBA itself.
Goes to show (ta-da-tss), that while I have met very nice and helpful judges in the past, not all of them actually hold to being honest in their transactions. My newbie mistake was believing that if the breeder is an “ARBA judge”, that they would hold to a higher standard as an example to new and potential members.
FYI: Whole reason I brought this up was because his first litter with my broken doe was born yesterday. The kits all turned out to be agouti/steel and broken agouti.
If anyone knows of a good NZ Black breeder south of King City, CA, please let me know!
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The agoutis are still pretty, but just disappointing they aren’t showable. 
