Effects

[3mina]

I certainly wish I'd asked one or two more questions when I bought my Rex's.

 

[WildWolf]

However wildly OUTCROSSING does absolutely nothing for a rabbit breeding program. You need to breed on the good qualities of a particular rabbit by "linebreeding". This way you limit the number of possible genetic combinations to the ones you are wanting.

What do you mean by outcrossing? Can you explain linebreeding? Thanks, as you can probably tell, I'm very new to this.

Your dog does not have sensitive skin because of her BREED>> she has it because her parents were bred together and produced it! It was that breeder's choice or lack of. This is something that is in your dogs FAMILY lines which is way different than what breed she is. Being a certain breed does not mean that dog will automatically get something simply because she is that breed!! The Seeing Eye in Moristown NJ for example, has eliminated hip displaysia in their lines of Golden Retrievers!

That makes sense. And I guess that is why there are a lot of Westies with skin problems- because when one line gets the problem, and is bred with another line, the offspring have it, and I think a lot of family lines have the problem. And when the breeders are breeding dogs, I think the main goal is looks, not really skin health.

I think that when I start to breed, I'll get a purebred buck. That way I'll have a 'stabilizer', along with surprise coat colors!

Just so you know, this did not work for me. YMMV.

Why not? If you have pretty good meat mutts, and a good purebred meat rabbit, would it work?

I think I've got a better grasp on this topic. From all of you guys' posts, I think what I'm understanding is: You should breed based on the individual rabbit, and because most purebreds are already bred for specific traits, it is easier to find purebreds that are good at whatever it is you are breeding for.

Can you breed littermates? or sisters/brothers that share the same mother or/and father but are from different litters? Can personality be something that is passed on from mother/father to their offspring?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Yes, you can breed half siblings. I started with 2 does and two bucks in April of 2011, and before I could breed the does to the second buck, he died. So all of my rabbits share the same buck as father/grandfather. My breeder is about 500 miles away, and there are very few Rex breeders here, so I haven't gotten another buck yet.

You can also breed full siblings as long as they don't share the same faults. It is riskier because if they have a bad trait you are more likely to have that show up. However, if they share good traits, those are also more likely to show in their offspring. Fortunately, when breeding animals for meat, you can "eat your mistakes"!

 

[LauraNJ]

Outcrossing is 2 unrelated animals.

Linebreeding is both the Buck and Does having a common ancestor- like the same Grandparent. In that example the Grandparent is being "doubled" up on. His genes are on both sides, although not too close. Line breeding in dogs is common.

Inbreeding is sister to brother, parent to kit. If you have faults that you aren't aware of in your line and you inbreed, both the good and bad are concentrated/doubled up so you could end up with fantastic progency or ones with major faults and issues.

I think in rabbits it is fairly common to linebreed and inbreed without the type of issues you see in dogs if you continually inbreed or linebreed too heavy on one particular animal.

 

[Miss M]

Hah! ToastedOat is vindicated! :lol: Some breeders of meat rabbits who also show are looking more to show results than meat production. I bet his champagnes make great meat pen rabbits- but filling the freezer is a secondary goal.

Next time I buy a line of rabbits, I am going to have a lot more questions for the breeder regarding their goals.

Yeah, that was definitely a wake-up call to me! Make sure I know what the breeder is breeding for! :shock:

I imagine his big, beautiful, fast-growing champagnes would make an awesome meat pen! But they'd also be lousy meat producers!

He had multiple grand champions, etc., etc., and boy was he proud of them! I was like, let me go, so I can go talk to people who are actually raising meat rabbits! :roll:

Yes, you can breed half siblings. I started with 2 does and two bucks in April of 2011, and before I could breed the does to the second buck, he died. So all of my rabbits share the same buck as father/grandfather. My breeder is about 500 miles away, and there are very few Rex breeders here, so I haven't gotten another buck yet.

You can also breed full siblings as long as they don't share the same faults. It is riskier because if they have a bad trait you are more likely to have that show up. However, if they share good traits, those are also more likely to show in their offspring. Fortunately, when breeding animals for meat, you can "eat your mistakes"!

Before Pearl died, I was breeding son-mother and brother-sister, since my buck is Pearl's son. One of my does is also my buck's full sister. I still have her, and have no issues with their kits. So apparently, they have no major faults, because if they did, I'd be seeing them in the kits.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Outcrossing is 2 unrelated animals.

Inbreeding is sister to brother, parent to kit.

I thought parent to kit was Linebreeding in Rabbits? It is according to this chart:

http://www.buksonline.com/show_rabbit_articles/LineBreedingChart.html

 

[toastedoat37]

Also something about some show folks, Just because their rabbits have some legs, well they may be at a show where there is no competition for their breed and just get their whole family to sign up with there own rabbits , just so they can get some legs, looks good on paper.

And then some of these people that sell pedigree rabbits, i suspect maybe some of them just are not really pedigree purebred. I looked at someones pedigree FW recently, nice meaty rabbits, but i susspect maybe his papers were not telling the truth, I did not get to go into his rabbitry, but i did see some pictureds that someone esle had, I saw to many new zealands in there with his florida whites.I think his rabbits would be great meat producers, but i think his pedigree papers were just a way for him to get more money for them.

Right after that i talked to another FW breeder, and i suspect him of doing the same thing, from the pics i saw, i didnt suspect him of doing it till he suggested that i not buy his rabbits ,cept for two young bucks that he had.Then i went back and looked at his pics closer and pretty sure it was a new zealand mom in with his litter of Fw he was selling .

I still may buy rabbits from that guy,because after me telling him how i disliked dishonest rabbit breeders, he narrowed my choices down of what he thought i should buy from him.And also suggested another breeder that i might talk to.

 

[Miss M]

they may be at a show where there is no competition for their breed and just get their whole family to sign up with there own rabbits , just so they can get some legs, looks good on paper.

My husband knew of a guy who was working at a county fair. He was on his lunch break, looking at all the contest entries for the fruits and vegetables people had grown. He saw there was no entry for grapes, so he took the bunch of grapes from his lunch box and entered it. Whatever the prize was, he won it, just because his was the only entry! :lol:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Also something about some show folks, Just because their rabbits have some legs, well they may be at a show where there is no competition for their breed and just get their whole family to sign up with there own rabbits , just so they can get some legs, looks good on paper.

I did this, for the stated reason of lack of competition. But I made sure to ask a judge AND read the ARBA rules to make sure legs wouldn't be awarded to an animal that doesn't merit it. If the rabbit is not worthy of an award, they will not issue a leg just because the animal is the "best of the worst" presented. I am sure politics are involved at rabbit shows, as in any other competition, but being a total newbie to the show rabbit arena, I am not owed any favors.

 

[skysthelimit]

There is some of every body doing every thing, I just don't like general statements about anything, it's like being guilty before being proven innocent.


Line breeding is a form of inbreeding.

Supposedly you can inbreed rabbits up to eight generations without degredation. With such a small supply of Rex, I'm sure I'll find out.

Temperament is hereditary, as is litter size, growth rate, milking ability and e everything else that matters. Some of these traits are polygenic. for instance, my best rabbits always seem to be REW, a color I am not fond of. I've noticed that my black ones keep dying. My solid ones grow faster than my brokens. I have not begun to figure it out, how to isolate some of these things, but I'm working on it by doing some close inbreeding.

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

There is some of every body doing every thing, I just don't like general statements about anything, it's like being guilty before being proven innocent.


Line breeding is a form of inbreeding.

Supposedly you can inbreed rabbits up to eight generations without degredation. With such a small supply of Rex, I'm sure I'll find out.

Temperament is hereditary, as is litter size, growth rate, milking ability and e everything else that matters. Some of these traits are polygenic. for instance, my best rabbits always seem to be REW, a color I am not fond of. I've noticed that my black ones keep dying. My solid ones grow faster than my brokens. I have not begun to figure it out, how to isolate some of these things, but I'm working on it by doing some close inbreeding.

also on inbreeding....
if you do inbreed you can see, okay i have these good traits in my rabbits and here are the bad/i-dont-want-them traits. and you can know more of what you want to look for in a rabbit for outcrossing.

 

[toastedoat37]

sky, i bet you can find some nice rex for sale down in southern california somewere, ive never liked the all black rabbits, i like the black and white ones though.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:33 pm __________<br /><br />i just read an ad on craigs list, someone coming up here form san diego looking for rex, they are going the wrong way

 

[skysthelimit]

sky, i bet you can find some nice rex for sale down in southern california somewere, ive never liked the all black rabbits, i like the black and white ones though.

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:33 pm __________

i just read an ad on craigs list, someone coming up here form san diego looking for rex, they are going the wrong way

Ever try getting rabbits from Cali to Ohio? Wisconsin to Ohio didn't work very well for me.

 

[Typykal]

sky, i bet you can find some nice rex for sale down in southern california somewere, ive never liked the all black rabbits, i like the black and white ones though.

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:33 pm __________

i just read an ad on craigs list, someone coming up here form san diego looking for rex, they are going the wrong way

There is some extremely nice rex in the northwest Toasted. A rex took best in show in show A at the oregon state convention a couple weeks ago - incredibly nice rabbit.

 

[toastedoat37]

yeah, i know there some rex in oregon, oregons got every kind of rabbit you want if you look.

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:48 pm __________

what part of oregon are you in typykal?<br /><br />__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:50 pm __________<br /><br />i keep thinking i will move back to oregon,,but i probably wont,ive developed a good reputation with work and clients here , can work when i want as much or as little as i want. If i move to oregon , i would have to stay near the coast for work. Unless i find some nice woman down there to support me.

 

[skysthelimit]

Is "Coast Rex" the rabbitry? If not, could you pm me the contact info? I need another buck!

There is a Central Coast Rex, they haven't updated there website. As soon as I get my laptop back up I will have a look.

 

[Typykal]

yeah, i know there some rex in oregon, oregons got every kind of rabbit you want if you look.

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:48 pm __________

what part of oregon are you in typykal?

__________ Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:50 pm __________

i keep thinking i will move back to oregon,,but i probably wont,ive developed a good reputation with work and clients here , can work when i want as much or as little as i want. If i move to oregon , i would have to stay near the coast for work. Unless i find some nice woman down there to support me.

We are in the Portland metro area. The coastline is gorgeous, it would be hard for me to resist the temptation if I were in the same situation!

 

[toastedoat37]

I prefer the mountains to the beach, to much sand on the coast , i prefer a nice mountain stream with rocky bottom instead of a low land river with mud on the bottom, kinda sucks since i repair commercial fishing boats, wooden ones mostly. Not very many boats like that in the mountains.
What kind of rabbits do you raise?

 

[WildWolf]

Supposedly you can inbreed rabbits up to eight generations without degredation. With such a small supply of Rex, I'm sure I'll find out.

Temperament is hereditary, as is litter size, growth rate, milking ability and e everything else that matters. Some of these traits are polygenic. for instance, my best rabbits always seem to be REW, a color I am not fond of. I've noticed that my black ones keep dying. My solid ones grow faster than my brokens. I have not begun to figure it out, how to isolate some of these things, but I'm working on it by doing some close inbreeding.

What do you mean by 'up to 8 generations'? does that mean you can inbreed a rabbit 8 times, or inbreed a rabbit to its 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th generation, but no further?

I did not expect temperament to be inherited. Thanks, that helped a lot

 

[skysthelimit]

Supposedly you can inbreed rabbits up to eight generations without degredation. With such a small supply of Rex, I'm sure I'll find out.

Temperament is hereditary, as is litter size, growth rate, milking ability and e everything else that matters. Some of these traits are polygenic. for instance, my best rabbits always seem to be REW, a color I am not fond of. I've noticed that my black ones keep dying. My solid ones grow faster than my brokens. I have not begun to figure it out, how to isolate some of these things, but I'm working on it by doing some close inbreeding.

What do you mean by 'up to 8 generations'? does that mean you can inbreed a rabbit 8 times, or inbreed a rabbit to its 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th generation, but no further?

I did not expect temperament to be inherited. Thanks, that helped a lot

You can cross sire/dam to daughter/son, those kits back to sire/dam or grandsire/granddam, then repeat the cycle for some time. I believe the inbreeding/linebreeding chart calls it generations A-B, then C back to A or B, which produces D, which can go back to A, B, or C... up to I, http://www.buksonline.com/show_rabbit_a ... Chart.html. This is heavily line bred, with hard culling, goo traits show up fast, so do bad ones. I just bred dam to son, and so far, I see something dominant that I like, but something dominant that I really don't like.

Look at people kids, even in humans, some of us have habits and traits that are "just like our parents." How many times have you said or heard--You act just like your (insert family member). Certain talents are passed down the family line.

That is so clear in dog breeding. Drive and work ability are passed down as well, and that is a large part of temperament. I have a male from a line where males are dog aggressive (not dog as in all dogs, but dog as in male dog, girls as in b*****es). His son is quite the bossy thing, as are the two that live with him, the one that lives with me,and the ones that live with others from a different litter. Pushy higher drive dogs. Except for two very calm pups from different litters. Different owners, but same temperament. My males brother is a pyscho as well. My boy is very laid back, lazy to a fault, not like is offspring or his brother. Except for those times when he interacts with my other male dog, then he is a jerk. I see those tendencies hiding under his early experiences.
The breeder wondered where she got these high drive bossy dogs from--they come from my male.