dehydrated kits

[cjgibson2009]

Ok so i lost my last litter and this litter was born a little over 2 weeks ago this morning i checked on them and they were fine. Later i the day the 2 bugger ones were fine but the runt was dead and another one was a little cool to the touch and dehydrated. Its body was kindof rigid and it was falling over. I brought it inside and gave it some unflavored pedialite and some goat milk formula from a recipe that someone posted here. I wrapped it in a towel and put it in my shirt for warmth. Then i noticed it was geinding its teeth so i gave it some infant mylecon drops. It started to perk up a little bit but i noticed that it still hadnt peed or pooped.(its been a couple hours by this point) Before bed tonight i gave it a little more formula and rubbed its bottom again and it finally peed and pooped. What does this sound like? Is the mother not properly taking care of the kits? Could the 2 bigger ones not be allowing the kit to get fed? Should i hand rear this one? I dont know what to do.

 

[MaggieJ]

You don't say how many are in the litter, but if there were only four, it was unlikely that the larger kits were keeping this one from getting enough milk. Rabbits have more nipples than that.

You should be aware that a cold kit cannot digest milk/formula. It needs to be thoroughly warm first. The tooth-grinding sounds as though it was having problems because of this.

Honestly, I am not sure what to do. Usually these problems show up long before the kits reach the two week point. You could try giving this kit a dedicated feeding once a day by putting a towel in your lap with a sort of pouch between your legs for the kit and putting the doe on top. Once she is relaxed, slip the kit into the pouch and hope it latches on. This is usually more effective than flipping the doe to let the kit feed.

The youngest kit that I have hand-fed was seventeen days. I gave it kitchen oatmeal moistened with water (I'd have used goat's milk if I could have) and just a pinch of brown sugar as an attractant. It also had hay and the greens it would have had access to in the colony. (I don't feed pellets.) It did fine... but it was a bit older than the kit you are dealing with.

 

[Dood]

Sounds like the kit may have had a congenital defect - what breed are they? Could "peanuts" be a possibility?

Or her milk may have dried up. Was she in good body condition when she had her second litter? What diet are you feeding the doe?

 

[cjgibson2009]

I dont know what peanuts means. Mama is rex and dad os an american chinchilla. Mama is fed unlimited timothy, some greens and a tbsp of calf manna.

 

[Susie570]

Peanuts are not a possibility since both parents have to have the dwarf gene.

I had one 'failure to thrive' kit in my mini lop litter. It was a runt and, although it showed a strong desire to nurse, it rapidly fell behind the other kits and even supplemental feedings were not enough to sustain it. It died at about a week old. Sometimes, there's just something genetically wrong with a kit and they don't make it.

I might have been able to save the kit with extra special attention, if I had decided to try and hand raise it with goat's milk and frequent feedings, but honestly I made the decision that if a kit needs EXTREME measures to help it survive, it probably should be either culled or let nature take its course. I was willing to try and give the kit a 'leg up' by giving it a supplemental feeding, or two, from a doe during the day... but since that wasn't enough I felt that there must have been something genetically wrong with the kit and it wouldn't have been a good idea to raise it, even if it were possible to do so. Those are not the kind of genetics you want to pass along and it would have been likely that, even as an adult, the rabbit would have been fragile.

I hope the kits all come along nicely, but if some of them don't 'thrive', don't beat yourself up about it. Best of luck.

 

[cjgibson2009]

What concerns me is thar this is exactly what happened to my last litter from a diffrent doe. Im just so confused. At this rate ive just wasted so much money and time for meat rabbits im never gonna be able to eat. This little buck is still alive as of now and the remaining 2 of the litter are hopping and playing and acting normal for now. I just cant help feeling like somehow its all connected. Its like as soon as they leave the nestbox they start to die. The hay looks and smells perfect. We dont use chemicals at all so im concerned about the foraged greens. Im just so defeated

 

[Zass]

Its like as soon as they leave the nestbox they start to die.

It's something they are eating. Or else, something wrong with the doe's milk supply.
Your going to want to closely inspect her teats.

I also suggest you keep the greens and calf manna out of the kit's reach next time (probably not the cause, but it will help rule things out), and make sure your pellets have no mold.

I have a huge problem with mold when I fed manna pro products. The bags came to me already tainted.

Dunno if it was at the mill, during transport, or at the feed store...but the bags were getting wet somewhere before we purchased them. :evil:

 

[Dood]

I dont know what peanuts means.

if the parents were both dwarfs then some kits could be double dwarfs, also called "peanuts"

Mama is rex and dad os an american chinchilla. Mama is fed unlimited timothy, some greens and a tbsp of calf manna.

IMHO a diet of mainly Timothy hay supplemented with a tablespoon of calf mana is not adequate for breeding and lactating does. There is not enough protein, fat or calcium and possibly the reason why your kits are starving.

How is your does body condition? Could you post a side view and top down view of her?

 

[Zass]

Mama is rex and dad is an american chinchilla. Mama is fed unlimited timothy, some greens and a tbsp of calf manna.

IMHO a diet of mainly Timothy hay supplemented with a tablespoon of calf mana is not adequate for breeding and lactating does. There is not enough protein, fat or calcium and possibly the reason why your kits are starving.

How is your does body condition? Could you post a side view and top down view of her?

Thanks Dood, I missed that bit! That might be a good diet for a pet rabbit, but I also do not feel that it's a sufficient diet for a large breed lactating doe.

 

[imajpm]

Yeah I agree also. My nursing does get unlimited hay, a cup of pellets( 2x what they get when dry), plus BOSS/mana mix, 1 tbsp. Increased as needed. First I'd try boosting her feed with some pellets and then go from there.

 

[cjgibson2009]

I tried to take pics but they wont post on here... it says theyre too big...the problem with pellets is that neither one will eat them. I give them kale and clover plantain and mulberry leaves as well. I will try and buy some more pellets but they never want to eat them. Is there anything else i could feed them that is high in nutrients?

 

[Zass]

I tried to take pics but they wont post on here... it says theyre too big...the problem with pellets is that neither one will eat them. I give them kale and clover plantain and mulberry leaves as well. I will try and buy some more pellets but they never want to eat them. Is there anything else i could feed them that is high in nutrients?

With a diet like you have, you could probably get by with just adding some alfalfa hay(protein/calcium), and a little black oil sunflower seeds(protein/fat) + a salt and mineral supplement to what you already feed.

Oats or old fashioned oatmeal is highly recommended as a first food for kits, or for any rabbits who could use some extra easy-to-digest calories.

 

[cjgibson2009]

I thought i wrote oats and sunflour seeds to my origional post.. but i guess i forgot... anyways. My remaining 2 kits were hopping around and fine when i went to bed last night but this morning were both dead. It doesnt make any sense to me. They were all completely heathy whe they were in the nest box but as soon as they come out they die... this is exactly what happened to my last litter from a diffrent doe. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Zass]

Does the doe still have milk?

 

[cjgibson2009]

Yeah she does. I gave her some mint in hopes she doesnt get mastitis.

 

[MaggieJ]

Are you 100% certain of the identity of the foraged plants that you are feeding? It seems very odd that the kits die as soon as they leave the nest box. It leads me to believe that the problem has to be dietary--something they did not have access to when they were still in the nest box. Have you examined the grass-hay for possible toxic plants?

Some alfalfa hay or, failing that, alfalfa cubes would be a good idea. The diet you are feeding is just too low in protein for breeding rabbits.

 

[cjgibson2009]

Yes i am 100% sure of the plants. But i agree that it cant be coincidence that they die when leaving the nest box. What should i e looking for as a culprit in the hay? As far as the protein goes im looking into it and have been looking on the natural feeding section of this board.

 

[MaggieJ]

Impossible to even offer a suggestion of what could possibly be in the hay . . . I have absolutely no idea where in the United States you are located. If you would add your state to your profile, perhaps someone familiar with your neck of the woods would have an idea of what it might be.

Keep in mind it could also be invisible micro-toxins or mould.

You might talk to your extension agent about the problem. They may be aware of local problems of this sort.

 

[cjgibson2009]

Im in maryland up by the pa line. Thats a goid idea ill try that. Im also gonna buy pellets and try that to. Thank you so much. I really hope i can be successful with this

 

[MaggieJ]

I hope something pans out for you.

Please put your location in your profile. Just adding it in the thread is fine for the moment, but there is no way members can remember the locations of all the other members. And so many rabbit questions are geographically influence.