commercial rabbits/pasturella

[lissapell]

I am very curious at this point in my "pasturella journey." Before I convinced my hunsband we should start a rabbit herd for meat production, I knew from previous experience I would need to cull hard for a strong herd. I didnt expect that to come 6 wks in, but did expect it after babies started appearing. Well I am now expecting to cull 2 of my 4 rabbits. We were expecting to bring in new stock in march(american blues) and august( additional SF and americans). I will have to make sure my remaining 2 are well first or scrap them all and start over. (OUCH that is expensive!) It will also be emotional as we have grown to love Cujo.
SOOO my question is how to commercial rabbitrys handle pasturella? In a barn big enough to hold 200-6000 rabbits I can only imagine not being able to examine frequently. Sooo, what I figure is IF one gets sick and dies and the other survives, the others litter is used as stock to replace the ones that were sick. Do they even bother to QT the ill rabbits? If they dont QT would that make the surviving stocks immune system even stronger?

* I am sure everyone does this differently even in big set ups. Now Im trying to figure out MY best way to raise strong stock. I will be using Qt practices.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

From what I have read, a lot of really big commercial operations use antibiotics either as treatment or preventatively. They don't normally bring in new stock, they replace from their own breeding pools.

As to your rabbits, have the remaining two shown any symptoms? If not, they should be fine, but I would definitely wait until March to bring in any new stock and QT them for at least a month.

As to the expense of culling and starting over...what is more expensive? Two rabbits? Or all those new rabbits you will be getting? It is hard, I cried like a baby when I culled my breeders.

 

[lissapell]

the remaining two have not show symptoms but then the 1st one didnt show symptoms until yesterday. I have been handling them a few times everyday. Every opportunity I got I have been out there with them so they would associate me with good things but I didnt hear a sneeze or see a wet nose or crusty paws. The one I saw with a wet nose this morning hasnt been sneezing either.
I know losing 2 is much less expensive than losing the 8 I plan on bringing in. I just had a hard time convincing my husband to start them and now he is saying we need to treat them, which I refuse to do. I want strong stock not something I have to be concerned will get sick if I change their feed.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

View attachment Alfred Mina Pasteurella.docx

Have him read this document. It is by a rabbit-savvy Vet and is very good information. Pasteurellosis is NOT curable with ABX (antibiotics). It is treatable, only to knock down the symptoms, but once they have it, they will carry either a latent infection or an active infection for life.

 

[lissapell]

HEHE I made him read that yesterday when you posted it.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

HEHE I made him read that yesterday when you posted it.

I forgot I posted it for your brother too! :lol: What did your hubs say after reading it?

 

[lissapell]

he looked up a bunch of other stuff online and found a pet site that mentioned treating and how only 80% of the time it is actually pasturella. Then he told me I should take her to the vet to be tested! To me, the point of raising meat rabbits is to be antibiotic free and less expensive meat. I understand his point. He wants to see the investment returned with bunnies not killed with the death of the doe. I think he understands my point too. It takes him a little longer to emotionally process death. He keeps bringing up the clean litter and disbatching all of them later if "HE" can keep them separate from my others.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

found a pet site

Here is a sticking point to that article. Pet sites are notorious for having either faulty information or just info that does not translate well with raising more than one or two pet bunnies. Yes, you can treat them. It is expensive and LONG TERM...like for the rest of their lives. And it *could* be bordatella, which is curable with ABX, but bordatella is usually found hand in hand with Pasteurella. I read all those same sites, all the pet ones, all the "clean litter" protocol ones, heck I even tried it. I treated with ABX and weaned early, etc. All 19 kits eventually came down with it, over the course of 3 months. And in that 3 months, I was doing ZERO breeding, so I lost three months of production. The point is, you want rabbits with good immune systems, not ones that need to be treated. You said the breeder offered to replace the doe. Will she not give you a refund? Ask, if she says no, then tell her you will accept the replacement with the caveat that if the NEW doe starts to display symptoms, she will then refund your money.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

only 80% of the time it is actually pasturella.

ONLY 80%??? :shock: I wouldn't want to bet on those odds.

What about the disease that make up that other 20%? Would you (he) want those in your herd either?

It takes him a little longer to emotionally process death.

When my original buck, Black Floyd, developed a huge abscess, Hubs and the kids were horrified that I wanted to cull him without "giving him a chance". They couldn't believe that I was unwilling to at least try to treat it.

We have always had animals, but our "ranch" was always more like a petting zoo- not a profitable and productive venture.

It was hard for all of us to switch to the livestock raising mentality needed when raising a herd of meat rabbits. Thankfully, everyone is on board now and knows how important it is to cull for a strong herd.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

ONLY 80%??? I wouldn't want to bet on those odds.

What about the disease that make up that other 20%? Would you (he) want those in your herd either?

Wow, I did not notice that off the bat....ONLY 80%....that makes me feel SO much better...NOT.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

SOOO my question is how to commercial rabbitrys handle pasturella?

they ship out every two weeks. And any body else as adult that show it. THEY are shipped out also. things move very fast in a commercial rabbitry. The ones i knew and including myself didnt use any medicine. As you were always replacing your does.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Wow, I did not notice that off the bat....ONLY 80%

I know, right? "The brain" didn't process it correctly the first time- I read it as 20% of the time it was Pasteurella!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Wow, I did not notice that off the bat....ONLY 80%

I know, right? "The brain" didn't process it correctly the first time- I read it as 20% of the time it was Pasteurella!

Me too, we must be sharing the brain this morning.... :mrgreen:

 

[lissapell]

found a pet site

Here is a sticking point to that article. Pet sites are notorious for having either faulty information or just info that does not translate well with raising more than one or two pet bunnies. Yes, you can treat them. It is expensive and LONG TERM...like for the rest of their lives. And it *could* be bordatella, which is curable with ABX, but bordatella is usually found hand in hand with Pasteurella. I read all those same sites, all the pet ones, all the "clean litter" protocol ones, heck I even tried it. I treated with ABX and weaned early, etc. All 19 kits eventually came down with it, over the course of 3 months. And in that 3 months, I was doing ZERO breeding, so I lost three months of production. The point is, you want rabbits with good immune systems, not ones that need to be treated. You said the breeder offered to replace the doe. Will she not give you a refund? Ask, if she says no, then tell her you will accept the replacement with the caveat that if the NEW doe starts to display symptoms, she will then refund your money.

No refund. It will cost me as much in gas to get to her to swap out the doe as the doe costs so it is really not cost effective either.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

found a pet site

Here is a sticking point to that article. Pet sites are notorious for having either faulty information or just info that does not translate well with raising more than one or two pet bunnies. Yes, you can treat them. It is expensive and LONG TERM...like for the rest of their lives. And it *could* be bordatella, which is curable with ABX, but bordatella is usually found hand in hand with Pasteurella. I read all those same sites, all the pet ones, all the "clean litter" protocol ones, heck I even tried it. I treated with ABX and weaned early, etc. All 19 kits eventually came down with it, over the course of 3 months. And in that 3 months, I was doing ZERO breeding, so I lost three months of production. The point is, you want rabbits with good immune systems, not ones that need to be treated. You said the breeder offered to replace the doe. Will she not give you a refund? Ask, if she says no, then tell her you will accept the replacement with the caveat that if the NEW doe starts to display symptoms, she will then refund your money.

No refund. It will cost me as much in gas to get to her to swap out the doe as the doe costs so it is really not cost effective either.

How long have you had the doe?

 

[lissapell]

SOOO my question is how to commercial rabbitrys handle pasturella?

they ship out every two weeks. And any body else as adult that show it. THEY are shipped out also. things move very fast in a commercial rabbitry. The ones i knew and including myself didnt use any medicine. As you were always replacing your does.

So its not that they are building up better immune systems but moving the poor ones out quickly. Thank you!

__________ Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:09 pm __________

6 wks today

sry my posts keep doubling....

__________ Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:10 pm __________

 

[AnnClaire]

Lissa, at some point you have to weigh the costs of dealing with the breeder that sold you a rabbit with a deadly disease, or cut your losses, and move on to a different breeder.

Obviously, the breeder has rabbits that are carrying P. but it is not active in her herd. By using her stock, you are perpetuating the situation in your own herd and will face similar situations when/if you sell breeding stock from your herd.

Now, there is no guarantee that any other breeding stock from any other breeder will be in any better condition in regards to P, but you won't know for sure until you try. Yep, catch-22 and all that. Good luck!