Coat color/genetics questions *Pics added*

[Honeybun]

We started out with 3 rabbit colors: black, chinchilla, and chestnut. From those first ones came all those colors plus REW and 2 colors I'm not sure about.
The first looks like orange: orange fur, light belly, with a little "smut" I think it's called, on the nose and ears - but not nearly enough to look like a black tort.
The second is white with dark eyes, and color on the nose, ears, and tail. The amount of color varies from just the slightest bit of gray to almost a Himalayan or seal-point look, but with no color on the feet - still just ears, nose, and tail. Most of them have dark gray/black points, but one has medium brown points.

If these are frosted pearl and orange from the non-extension gene, shouldn't we be seeing black tort pop up too? But we haven't (and we've had a couple hundred rabbits born here). Keep in mind that our rabbits are nowhere near show or even pet quality. They're actually from a breeder who sold to a science lab at a university. They're supposed to be New Zealand, but I'm not sure they're purebred.

If pictures would help, I'll try to get some tomorrow.

ETA - here are the pics. The frosted ones are babies; the color darkens as they get older. Also, I realize that these two (which happen to be heavily frosted) do have some color on the feet.
The orange one is named William of Orange, LOL.

 

[Dood]

They do sound like orange/fawn and frosted and you should get torts.

How often do you get blacks? If nearly all the kits are agouti based and you rarely get blacks then getting a tort would be even rarer.

 

[Honeybun]

I think you're right! I've been sketching out the possible phenotypes of our rabbits, and I haven't found any pairing that can produce a tort. We'll have to work on that!
But can a frosted pearl have medium-dark points? All the pictures I've found online show either an even full body frosting or very light points.

 

[akane]

Frosties are random and they change shade as they grow. Have you seen my house rabbit frosty? Everyone spent forever trying to figure out her genotype. We believe it was the chin gene and sable gene that made her so dark compared to sable and rew or himi which makes them nearly all white.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aqh88/l ... warf/shimo

 

[Honeybun]

Akane, your rabbit is beautiful! I have always loved the "pastel" colored animals.

 

[Dood]

Frostys come in black, chocolate, blue/dilute and lilac as well.

I've had the occasional blue frosty and they are nearly pure white with very faint points and grey eyes that darken to brown.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Easy to get torts and sable points from the original three colours.. The black has provided self and all three could easily be carrying non-extension. They also could be hiding chocolate as well. So two non extensions pair up with an agouti gene and you get your red, two selfs and two non extensions PLUS a little chinchilla thrown in will get you those sable points. One looks chocolate or dilute though which is also easy to hide in the 3 original colours.

 

[akane]

Yea your torts are just your reds without the agouti gene. Your chin or chestnut need to carry a self gene and breed with the black which must carry a nonextension gene to make torts. If you are getting no self colors your chin and chestnut probably don't carry self but bred to the black their offspring would and could be crossed together to have a chance of torts.

 

[Honeybun]

Oh, so maybe we have a dilute or chocolate factor in there somewhere! That would be awesome!
So we've never gotten Tort or Sallander, but we should be able to. We're going to try to find a pairing that will give us that.
I like to tan the furs; that's why I'm so into colors.

 

[Dood]

To get torts and sallander you need to get more self into your lines.

Since black was an original colour your fawns and frostys might be carriers of self and if bred to a black (or any self - ie blue, chocolate or lilac) you should get torts or Sallanders, respectively.

 

[siddsaysgimmie]

The first one is an orange with some smut. The two little ones have no agouti markings, they look like sable points.

 

[akane]

A frosty and sable point can be hard to tell apart.

 

[Dood]

The two little ones have no agouti markings, they look like sable points

She has chinchilla genetics, not sable so they are more likely frostys and not sable points. If they are self, chin and non extension they would be sallander and should be darker.

Can you get a picture of their tails? If they are white on the underside then they're definitely frosty.

 

[Disney]

I would say tort otter for the first one. He has black hairs which an orange shouldn't have and the yellow tan color is similar to one, oranges are a brighter straw color.

 

[Honeybun]

Thanks all! @Dood, they have white tail undersides.