Chinchilla genes? ~ New pictures

[Skyz84]

Anyone want to help me figure out the genetics behind this guy? He's new to my barn and this is his 1st litter. Trying to decide if he will stick around to make pets.
I'm thinking he is a tort who caries the chin gene? (aaB_C(chd)Ddee) His nose looks a bit smudgy to me and his red color looks a bit washed out. More of a yellow hue then a true red. Is that from the Chin gene?




He gave me a charlie blue, charlie opal & these:



What is this color? It has lots of silver ticking in the fur. Not solid black.


Is this a Himi? I got 3 of these and they all seem pointed?


This White has dark eyes??

 

[akane]

Pretty sure it's just a broken red but definitely carrying some interesting things. If you know the doe is Cc I think the buck is Cchl because the 3rd kit is a sable. So the first kit (skipping the extra genes that decide the base color) is A* chlch (light chin), the 3rd kit is aa chlch (sable), I'm not sure about the 2nd kit since it looks steel but you have no visibly steel parents, unless I"m wrong the last kit has to be sable point aachlchee.

 

[skysthelimit]

Hi,

He doesn't look like a tort to me, the ears and sides should be a lot darker sepia, but that may be the lighting.

The chin gene can affect rufus, with a chin that doesn't carry the correct rufus modifiers (or any rabbit that doesn't carry correct rufus modifiers) which is why I never breed my chins to my agoutis, and supposedly they can leave smut on the chins.

But mostly if the color is faded, it's because the bun has low rufus (or he isn't the color you think he is).

The first kit you know is a chin.

The second is a steel, and if the broken buck carries a steel gene, he may not be a tort at all, but a masked agouti.

Next kit is not a himi. Himis are all white with points. Possibly just a blue self, or a blue self chin.

If the white has brown eyes, it's probably an ermine/frosty. <br /><br /> __________ Wed May 21, 2014 12:41 pm __________ <br /><br />

Pretty sure it's just a broken red but definitely carrying some interesting things. If you know the doe is Cc I think the buck is Cchl because the 3rd kit is a sable. So the first kit (skipping the extra genes that decide the base color) is A* chlch (light chin), the 3rd kit is aa chlch (sable), I'm not sure about the 2nd kit since it looks steel but you have no visibly steel parents, unless I"m wrong the last kit has to be sable point aachlchee.

Forgot about those sables looking blue.

Do you remember what it looked like at birth? My sables are usually white with vague markings at birth, then turn the grayish smokey blue like your picture, then molt out to sable.

 

[akane]

If the kit really is a steel the opal has to be a steel. eje to throw both an e for the white kit and ej for the steel. The red can't be steel.

 

[Zass]

Steeled opals can be a bit tricky to pick out. Especially with all the variation possible in steels and a broken pattern to hide some of the color. It's my first guess though, that that opal is a steel.


Steel is Es and only takes one copy to show on a coat. The dark eyed white is probably an ermine. (non extension chinchilla, and should show some dark hairs later)
The doe would be Aa B_ Cc dd Ese


Lovely colors BTW!

 

[akane]

Oops Es not ej... I thought that looked odd. <br /><br /> __________ Wed May 21, 2014 1:29 pm __________ <br /><br /> My sables have grey skin at birth, usually a pink spot behind the neck and maybe some lighter arears, and then they grow silvery not quite blue fur. They never look white.

 

[Skyz84]

My opal doe was out of a broken red (AatB_C_Ddee) and a blue (aaBbC-ddE-)


The 3rd kit.. I'm pretty sure they were a very faint blue/gray at birth. Definitely not white like the last baby.

 

[Zass]

Self can hide steel genes, and steel can make agoutis look like selfs.
:lol: Basically, most of us try our hardest to never knowingly cross steel genes into self lines for that reason.

 

[Dood]

I think the buck is a red/fawn/orange = Aa B_ Ccchl Dd ee

Your opal doe is a steel opal = Aa B_ Cc dd Es e

The first kit could be a light shaded agouti A_ B_ cchl c D_ Ee
I have recently discovered "shagouiti's" (light shaded gene) can look nearly identical to "true" chinchillas (dark shaded gene)

The second is a silver tipped steel (AKA steel chinchilla) = A_ B_ cchl c D_ Es _

The third looks like a smoke pearl (blue shaded) = aa B_ cchl c dd E_ (or Es_)

The fourth with dark eyes is a frosty/ermine = A_ B_ cchl c D_ ee and could be a blue one A_ B_ cchl c dd ee

 

[Skyz84]

If I breed her back to her blue sire.. (where the steel must have come from)... Would that prove they are the steel carriers?

I would get babies that look like the 2rd kit pictured here? The one so dark it almost looks black but with silver ticking.... So I don't know anything about the chin or steel gene. 1st time I've ever seen them in person. I assumed it came from my new "mix breed pet " buck.

haha wonder how many others are carrying the steel gene in my barn! Blue, Chocolate and Black Otter could all be hiding it, correct? <br /><br /> __________ Wed May 21, 2014 2:41 pm __________ <br /><br /> Thanks Dood!

I finally get it!

That Light Chinchilla sure is pretty. Makes me want to start a new side project in my barn! LOL

I thought I had everyone figured out.. at least my Sr bunnies who had been with me a few years.. and then something new pops up! Ha! I've had the blue buck for 4 years and the opal for 2 years. Never would have guess they were hiding that steel. Guess it's good to bring in new blood from time to time to keep the babies a surprise

 

[Zass]

Otter can't hide it, agouti and red can't hide it. But Steel can hide agouti(or chinchilla)...if that makes sense.

This kit of mine is gold tipped a blue steel, they look like opals with somewhat less distinct markings and are genetically opal with one copy of Es.
[album]2178[/album]
These are the steels I like to use to show the amount of variation possible, they are gold tipped steels (Chestnuts with one copy of Es):
[album]2379[/album] [album]2378[/album]

Steel paired with chinchilla is called silver tipped, but still requires agouti A_ to be visible on the coat.

 

[Dood]

Any self can hide steel and it is not a cut and dry gene so some agoutis with the gene are only slight darker while others are nearly self black, or blue or chocolate or lilac

Breeding back to her sire wont help. you should breed her to a black who doesnt carry chin, shaded, blue or non extension so you get chestnuts and gold tipped steel but there is really no other explanation for the dark grey ticked kit and she must be a steel carrier.

Can you post belly pictures of your opal doe?

 

[Skyz84]

She is mostly white so her belly is all white.

She just has a little color on her face and back.

 

[Zass]

How about a good pic of her ears from the front?

 

[Dood]

I'd be easy for this rabbit to be a steel, especially since she could pass for a self blue and has almost no ticking.

Of course she is a Rex which could be the reason she is this colour :shrug:

 

[akane]

Bet you money the 3rd kit is not dd. Oddly it seems smoke pearls look less blue than sables as kits and early juniors. They are kind of like a brown tinged lilac depending on lighting. Far more silver and lighter than the blue of a young sable.

The last one could be A* instead of aa. The chl ee kits get lighter as you add A locus genes. A marten is lighter than a self and an agouti is lighter than a marten. Eventually you lose the points a sable point would get. The same seems to happen with ch ee but is harder to see from the very heavily restricted points. chd ee seems somewhat less affected but I think there is a big difference between A* chdchl ee and A* chdchdee. That seems to give the nearly white versus smokey color of black based frosties.

 

[Skyz84]

Well I was sorta wrong... the 3 kits that looked identical... grew up different.

Here they are 6 weeks old... 2 are pointed for sure.. 1 is almost a smoky blue. The pointed have almost a yellowish hue to them under natural light. The non-pointed is very much blueish... All have dark eyes. Just the camera flash made them red

(*BTW, Bluish kit is the one I posted on the previous page. Just realized I didn't post any of the pointed as babies but I have pictures of them on my computer)

Pointed babies (yes 1 is the runt and staying with mom longer)


Blueish on the left.. pointed on the right

 

[Dood]

I think they are smoke pearl AKA blue sable = aa B_ cchl c dd Ee and genetically the same but have different modifiers making them darker or lighter

A blue POINT (blue sable point) would have a cream or white-ish body and genetically be non extension = Aa B_ cchl c dd ee

Good side by side comparison - http://www.gbfarm.org/rabbit/holland-co ... aded.shtml