Champagne D'Argent breeders

[lizardboy101]

I'd like to just give a shout and see who else is a Champagne breeder on here.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I just started with them.Do you have any?

 

[lizardboy101]

Yes I've been breeding for about a year now. Love the breed in general, but it's so hard to come across really nice one. I run into a lot of shoulder issues, and just doe issues in general this year. Have had 4 very nice does disapear or croak this year, I'm left with not much. lol. I plan on getting some of Fischer's stuff in because he has awesome shoulders to his herd that ive seen so far

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

very nice.<br /><br />__________ Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:02 pm __________<br /><br />here is a trio that i have..... MOre coming. Hoping

 

[lizardboy101]

Any idea where your lines come from? Hard to judge from the pictures but looks like you have the same problem I do, shoulders are too long in bottom and top rabbits, but absolutely love the second doe. shes gorgeous, would definately hold onto her very hard. It's great to see people breeding these awesome guys, it's so hard to show them because so few people breed them and I always wonder why they are such gorgeous animals.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I dont put breeder names on public forum anymore... YOurs need a bit more weight to them. Other than that they look good. There isnt to many around .I prefer not to show. To much of a headache for me. I like the temp of them and the fur are awesome. We need more breeders for these guys and standard rex..

 

[lizardboy101]

Yeep mine are definately lacking in their loin. The younger buck(so far) seems like he should be a good start to that fix, but we'll see how he matures. I didnt realize standard rex were bad at all, there's a ton of breeders around here that show standards, granted it's not as big as mini rex. lol

 

[dragonladyleanne]

I only have the one buck who is purebred, to be bred soon to a 3/4 Champagne and a 7/8 Champagne (both does are Silver Fox crossbreeds). I am not planning on showing, but I do plan keeping records of my breedings. I have read on here that you have your own pedigree after 4 generations, and also that you do NOT have to have a pedigree to show. Does that mean, even though I start with the 2 does who are crossbred (or with my other rabbits who are total unknowns other than how they look), if the 4th generation LOOKS fullblood, I can show them as Champagnes? Or is there a "mutt" category at shows, like with dog trials?

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

If you breed back to the father. After the 3rd generation you can have a pedigree... There isnt to many standard rex here in Ontario. NOt as many as the US.
The silvering is dominant ,,,,, so it will start showing that on the first breeding

 

[MamaSheepdog]

DLL,

if the crossbred does you have now look like the breed, you can show them. They just have to resemble the breed you enter them as- no papers required.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

DLL,

if the crossbred does you have now look like the breed, you can show them. They just have to resemble the breed you enter them as- no papers required.

she cant sell any babies that are not purebred. She has to say they are crossbreds ..Until she has 3 generations done.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

she cant sell any babies that are not purebred. She has to say they are crossbreds ..Until she has 3 generations done.

She can sell them, as long as she is honest about it. Even after 3 generations, I would hope that any seller would let me know if there were any "surprises" lurking in the gene pool.

But she can still show them and find out how they conform to the standard. However, it is my understanding that if she managed to get a GC on the rabbit(s) they would not be eligible for registration as such without a 3gen pedigree.

 

[dragonladyleanne]

she cant sell any babies that are not purebred. She has to say they are crossbreds ..Until she has 3 generations done.

She can sell them, as long as she is honest about it. Even after 3 generations, I would hope that any seller would let me know if there were any "surprises" lurking in the gene pool.

But she can still show them and find out how they conform to the standard. However, it is my understanding that if she managed to get a GC on the rabbit(s) they would not be eligible for registration as such without a 3gen pedigree.

Ok, I think I have the idea now - they are judged on how well they conform to whatever breed you say they are, but you cannot register them as that breed, even if they are judged well, unless you have records showing who their parents, grandparents (and great-grandparents?)are. And I would not be selling them as purebreed, unless it's way down the road, with more purebreeds in the mix (I know backbreeding is accepted in rabbits, but I am uncomfortable doing it too much, read too many SF "mutant" stories as a kid); I started into this for meat (my own) and fur. Spot's 2 babies I sold went for a pet, and "new blood" for a woman's rabbitry, but I had Spot (the speckled mutt) right there, and told the woman about the dad looking like a cross between a Lionshead and a Checkered Giant. She just liked the looks of him. This is great info though, I feel it's better to try to be as "professional" as possible going in, in case I ever DO decide I want to show them.

 

[lizardboy101]

All that you stated is indeed correct and a Silver Fox would probably not be too far off from a Champagne. One of the Silver Foxes ancestors is thought to be a Checkered Giant and a Champagne(although there are no records so no one is 100% sure) lol. Ive noticed my foxes were a little longer in body than my Champagnes and tended to have an even bigger shoulder problem so you would want to cull hard on your long shouldered rabbits

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Silver Foxes have a totally different fur type than Champagnes.. Crossing a SF into Champagne lines will mess with the proper fur texture. The Silver gene of the Champagne is also totally different than the "silvering" a SF receives. A Checkered Giant has a totally different body type than either Champs or SF's so linebreeding on something that "may" have originated from CG's will only emphasize those long shoulders. So while crossbreeding can be done, it shouldn't be done just for the sake of "opening up the gene pool" without regard to the individual "type" of the rabbit you are using in the breeding programme. Breed to the sop as close as possible even if it is a crossbreeding and you will be that much further ahead. One also NEEDS to show the results as they become closer to the SOP! You need that outside professional opinion to make sure you are heading in the right direction! There is no sense saying you have a "certain" breed and NOT have shown them! They are not "proven" in other words then.As an example, we needed to open up our Brun gene pool and the Champagne is a way to do it but the Brun SOP is slightly different than the Champgne SOP with the Brun being a little lighter,hence we looked to a smaller Champagne for the cross. Therefore we didn't need to worry too much about overweight Bruns. But really I encourage anyone who breeds purebreds to show them once and a while to see where you are! Lizardboy has a good grasp on where he is in his breeding and what he needs to do because he has shown rabbits and received judges' comments on them! He may not agree with everything said by a judge but collectively these comments will begin to have a common denominator which will make sense. It is easy to be "rabbitry blind" if you don't do this.

 

[jdrabbitry]

I am new to champagnes but I just love them!! I just got my first pair and my dow is soooo sweet she just sits by the door waiting to be petted! I do have a question I can't seem to find anywhere....what age should I breed my pair? My kids had them out and my doe ran over to my buck and mounted him lol he looked shocked! They are 6 months old...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

what age should I breed my pair? My kids had them out and my doe ran over to my buck and mounted him lol he looked shocked! They are 6 months old...

They are more than ready, it sounds like, at least she is! :lol:

Fortunately for you, I just posted a thread on this very topic! Hope it helps:

judging-a-doe-s-readiness-and-breeding-tips-t9869.html

 

[lizardboy101]

He may not agree with everything said by a judge but collectively these comments will begin to have a common denominator which will make sense

Haha this is so true. For the longest time I absolutely refused to believe that some of my "prized animals" that I worked so hard to achieve have these things judges call faults. Such as a shoulder problem in my herd and some of my animals needing a little more density to their loin. Now I still here things I dont agree on, but I usually take it into a lot more consideration, but one thing to always remember a judge can be flawed as well. Ive met judges who just love rabbits that most other judges I know would toss out right away and others that would keep a rabbit that I think is a total waste of time, so dont let it be your first judges opinion.

Also agree on the fur type of Champagnes and silver foxes and I know you wont come out with the Champagne SOP I was only saying they are similiar to a Champagne in many ways.

A Checkered Giant has a totally different body type than either Champs or SF's

I always thought this too!<br /><br />__________ Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:39 pm __________<br /><br />Oh and as for age of breeding I usually wait until 8 months, but I do know many that breed as early as 6 months.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

8 months in the champagne is to late. I have a doe that is 9 months old and this is her 3rd try. I am hoping she is caught this time. I will know next week.
What do you think of these two does.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

I would breed by weight... so you could breed a doe who has reached about 80% of her expected adult weight. This will probably give you differing ages for breeding does all over the board, but it could also be used as a cull factor as well.