Can bad Moms learn from good?

[Wyldrose]

3 weeks ago Daisy 2 had a litter 3/4 died(4 died a couple days after). I moved her into a smaller cage beside my MR, who had a litter yesterday. I rebred Daisy so she is due April 7th. As soon as Sunflower had her kits Daisy went into nest building, pulled fur etc. I tossed in her nest box, which she used as a litter box last time. Now she has a nice big nest in it, lots of pulled fur etc.
Do you think Sunflowers nesting and the birth of her 7 got Daisy in the mood to nest and hopefully be a good Mom this time?

 

[carolnoel50]

I would like to hear the responses you get to this very good question. I must say I haven't seen it work that way with the few does I've got but I seemingly have one with no motherly instincts who hasn't been successfully bred to date. If the responses are favorable I will move her closer to the good mommas to watch and learn.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I do beleive it is possible that younger can learn from older, more experienced mothers. There are some females of every species that are super good about mothering-- to the point of adopting babies of other species, and even trying to nurse young when they are dry.... But, one can always get the really clueless females---no matter what-- they just don't work out as mothers..

 

[Wyldrose]

D2's 1st litter was bad, she pulled a bit of fur and made a nest on the floor, she had 2 in that "nest", the other 2 where on other sides away from the nest.
Here is the nest she pulled way more fur then last time(and she even got a strip of my curtins thanks D2!!!).

Sunflower is a first timer, she was beside Penny also a 1st timer when she had her litter. Penny was a good Mom too. So I wonder if Sunflower watching Penny kindle(is it called kindling in rabbits??) make her better? I am going to try this with a few others and hopefully D2's litter is better this time around.

 

[skysthelimit]

Well the REW doe sure isn't learning anything from the holland. though I am starting to think she just doesn't have any milk.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think the nesting pheromones flying around might have stimulated Daisy to nest, but I don't think she will learn by example how to be a good mom. I think that their mothering skills are instinctive responses to stimuli.

Sometimes it takes a doe two or three litters to get everything right, which is why so many people use the "three strikes rule". 99% of my does get everything right the first time in regard to nest building, fur pulled, and kits delivered in the nest- but some seem to have poor milk production because I will have losses in the first week at times. I hope to correct that through selective culling.

 

[Wyldrose]

I'm going to cull heavy to make sure I have good friendly breeders. My rex doe turned nasty with her first litter, I regret rebreeding her(she's also due the 7th) so when she is done with litter 2 she's dog food.
I have a scar on my arm from a bite and I can't pick her up with out those back feet trying to get me. I don't want to keep something like that around here. I'll keep atleast a doe from that litter to replace her.
I hope Daisy's a good Mom this time around, if not she's helping me fill the freezer for my boa.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I'm going to cull heavy to make sure I have good friendly breeders. My rex doe turned nasty with her first litter, I regret rebreeding her(she's also due the 7th) so when she is done with litter 2 she's dog food.

During labor and lactation, the hormone prolactin is released. It causes a state of love and euphoria which helps the mother bond to her young.

You can use this to your advantage in the days after she gives birth by petting and sweet talking her. I have tamed many a semi-feral cat and borderline nasty rabbit simply by giving them affection at that time. Start the process as soon as you find that she has kindled by giving a tasty treat when you check the nest and at least briefly touch the doe.

You might want to foster the best doe prospect of her litter to a friendly doe at birth so if the taming process isn't successful the keeper kit will learn to trust you from the foster doe's example.

 

[skysthelimit]

I culled a nasty doe like that, only time she was nice was when she was pregnant, kept a replicate of her, gave her moms name too. Nasty as a kit, really cranky now that she's preggo, but I kept her in a carrier for two weeks, I was above her, delivering food and love, now she is ok once I get her out of the cage. I bet she will be a great mom, I will know in a few weeks.

 

[hoodat]

You never can be sure what a rabbit can do. They aren't "dumb bunnies" I know a new litter just out of the nest waits till the first one discovers the greens or water bottle and quickly copy it so maybe it could work.<br /><br />__________ Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:29 pm __________<br /><br />

I culled a nasty doe like that, only time she was nice was when she was pregnant, kept a replicate of her, gave her moms name too. Nasty as a kit, really cranky now that she's preggo, but I kept her in a carrier for two weeks, I was above her, delivering food and love, now she is ok once I get her out of the cage. I bet she will be a great mom, I will know in a few weeks.

There is one thing I always warn my pet buyers about. Never swoop down on a rabbit from above. Their instincts tell them that something (like a hawk) swooping from above can be dangerous. Once they learn to trust you that instinct goes away.

 

[Secuono]

Or it's just regular experience. 1st timers do terrible, they don't get what's going on. 2nd time they tend to do better.
I wouldn't think the other doe helped at all, she is just understanding the hormones and is better prepared to what's going to happen.

 

[Wyldrose]

I bred the doe because I heard it can make them nicer. She's ok to pet at times, but try to pick her up and she rips up your arms!

The doe who nested isn't even preggy! lol I checked her and she's empty and lifted for my buck. I guess I jumped the gun breeding her to a 4 months old buck right?

 

[skysthelimit]

You never can be sure what a rabbit can do. They aren't "dumb bunnies" I know a new litter just out of the nest waits till the first one discovers the greens or water bottle and quickly copy it so maybe it could work.

__________ Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:29 pm __________

I culled a nasty doe like that, only time she was nice was when she was pregnant, kept a replicate of her, gave her moms name too. Nasty as a kit, really cranky now that she's preggo, but I kept her in a carrier for two weeks, I was above her, delivering food and love, now she is ok once I get her out of the cage. I bet she will be a great mom, I will know in a few weeks.

There is one thing I always warn my pet buyers about. Never swoop down on a rabbit from above. Their instincts tell them that something (like a hawk) swooping from above can be dangerous. Once they learn to trust you that instinct goes away.

Actually she was nicer too me after being in the carrier and not in a cage at eye level with me.<br /><br />__________ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:40 pm __________<br /><br />

I bred the doe because I heard it can make them nicer. She's ok to pet at times, but try to pick her up and she rips up your arms!

Sometimes. Isis is now an aggressive biter, started shortly after being bred, and has continued while nursing the litter. I don't care, bred or not, I won't tolerate this, I've had does I got 15 days before kindling, and they have never drew blood, why should a doe I raised from 8 wks?

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Sometimes. Isis is now an aggressive biter, started shortly after being bred, and has continued while nursing the litter. I don't care, bred or not, I won't tolerate this, I've had does I got 15 days before kindling, and they have never drew blood, why should a doe I raised from 8 wks?

Her brother is so sweet!!! He can be a real cuddlebun.....

 

[Wyldrose]

Well I need practice if I want to make my own meat right?
Her babies are 5 weeks tomorrow, so what another week and she can go to FC. Her two kits are cuddly and nice. I hope they stay like that!

 

[skysthelimit]

Sometimes. Isis is now an aggressive biter, started shortly after being bred, and has continued while nursing the litter. I don't care, bred or not, I won't tolerate this, I've had does I got 15 days before kindling, and they have never drew blood, why should a doe I raised from 8 wks?

Her brother is so sweet!!! He can be a real cuddlebun.....

She was cuddly too, until I bred her. I have quite a few rabbits now, I am starting to get to the point that I am unwilling to make excuses for bad behavior, bad parenting, bad genes...way too many cuts on the arm, but also too many rabbits that don't do these things.