Hi Brass!
:welcomewagon:
Welcome to RabbitTalk!
Brass":3r287koo said:
I'm struggling with deciding to build or buy cages.
Unless you have a cage supplier near you or place an order to be picked up at a show, your cages will be shipped flat and you will need to assemble them with J-clips or hog rings. That is probably the most time consuming part of the process.
I bought my first cages from BASS equipment. The doors are prehung.
I have also bought wire and built my own because I dismantled an aviary and used the panels as floor wire.
I use either a grinder or a reciprocating saw to cut the wire, and figure out ahead of time how many panels of each size I will require and cut them all at once, marking the cuts with twist ties. Make sure to measure twice (or thrice!) and cut once. There is nothing more frustrating than cutting the wrong size! :x
You can save on wire if you build in banks of multiple cages and they can share a center wall, but depending on the size involved they can be unwieldy. This also prevents you from being able to remove a single cage if an animal needs to be quarantined. That hasn't been a problem for me because I have a designated quarantine cage and can also put a questionable animal in my growout area since most of those animals are destined for freezer camp anyway.
Brass":3r287koo said:
Cost wise I'm not sure what is more efficient
You probably wont save much building your own. Factor in the cost of doors (you will want the wire reinforced doors that they sell) and door latches, as well as plastic wire guards unless you want to put in the effort to bend the cut ends over. I would recommend wire guard because even bent over the wire will snag your clothing.
Brass":3r287koo said:
Is that extra 6" really necessary? I'd love for the bucks/does to have a 'shelf' to hop up on.
My cages are the standard 18" height. 24" will enable you to put a shelf in there, but most rabbits will pee and poop on it which is unsanitary.
I give my rabbits "BunnyBuckets" and most don't potty in them. If they do, I remove the bucket for a few days and they usually learn their lesson and don't do it again.
Brass":3r287koo said:
I'm planning on SF and/or Satins, depending on what I can get reasonably locally.
Brass, where are you located approximately? There are a few people on the board that raise those breeds. I myself have just gotten into Satins.
Brass":3r287koo said:
I'm planning on eating my rabbits but the bucks and does I retain for breeding I really want to be more of pets.
I'm not sure of the temperament of SF, but Satins are rather- er- high strung. The bucks are pretty mellow, but the does can be kind of psycho. Admittedly, I am just now raising my first Satin litters, but the breeder I got them from does handle her rabbits, so it is not just how they are raised.
At shows where there are more than just one or two shows (A & B), the judges that have Satins for round three and four know that they had better tread carefully. By that point they are pretty tired of being messed with and aren't afraid to show it.
If you are at all interested in showing, you probably wont keep your older production animals around as "pets" for more than a few years (for a really stellar animal- poor producers, whether in quality or quantity even less time) since you will want to keep their (hopefully) better progeny to further your breeding goals. This also applies to a meat program, since you will want replacement stock that has better qualities (i.e. more MEAT!) than the original stock.
This is not to say that you can't treat them as "pets" during their life with you. I love my rabbits and they enjoy attention, but the day does come when they are "retired" and join their friends in the freezer.
Brass":3r287koo said:
looking at pictures of rabbits in cages on the internet they all seem to look cramped and the cages look so... sterile? boring?
"Sterile" is a good thing with rabbits! But it doesn't have to be "boring".
Give them toys and chewies (and BunnyBuckets!
) and they will be happy.
Brass":3r287koo said:
if I stick to 24" width wire for ceilings/floors then it is easy enough to use that for the height as well and I'm not cutting off 6" just to make 18" high cages. That and adding places for drop pans to set.
24" will work for the dropping pans, but you will no longer have an inside height of 24". Most dropping pans are less than 2" high. So you would put the floor at 18" or 20" to allow either 2" or 4" clearance, bending the last 2" at a right angle to support the pan. Most cages only have support for the pans on the sides, so you would still have some waste wire from the front and back panels.
Brass":3r287koo said:
What about cages with top doors?
You could use the waste wire to add a lip to the front of the cage top and support rails on the sides.
Brass":3r287koo said:
it's the baby saver walls on the doe cages that are really tossing a monkey wrench in it all.
Instead of using wire you could cut strips of the plastic wall board used in commercial bathrooms and zip tie it to the cage. I use it to line my BASS Sani-Nests. Aside from a bank of cages I purchased used, none of my cages have baby saver wire. Out of hundreds of babies I have lost maybe half a dozen kits.
Brass":3r287koo said:
Or drop-nests (subterranean nests?).
I use the wire nests that can be installed as drop nests, but I put them in the cage itself. My setup is two tiered and in order to accommodate them the height of the doe cages would be too high for easy access. I also don't like the idea of compromising the floor, and worry that it would eat too much floor space or the doe would use it as a bed which is a bad habit when she has kits.
Brass":3r287koo said:
I have visions though, of urine soaking into the ground (I think I'd leave it dirt floored?) and making an awful stench.
I don't use dropping pans at all. They are cumbersome, labor intensive, and keep the waste too close to the rabbits in my opinion. There is always odor when you have animals, but it is not an overpowering stench. I sprinkle diatomaceous earth and/or agricultural lime under my cages when I clean the poop out. When there is a layer of bunny berries, the odor is minimal. When you rake it away you can smell the urine until the ground dries somewhat.
Some people use sand and remove and wash it periodically.
Brass":3r287koo said:
The rabbits will be overwintered in the horse barn and I don't think I'll do many litters if any over winter. So the in-barn cages need drop pans.
You could put linoleum, tarps, or plastic wall board under the cages so the urine wont soak into the concrete and avoid drop pans altogether. Can you tell I abhor drop pans?
Brass":3r287koo said:
We live in the backwoods of Nowhere.... so there's not much near here as far as I know for breeders that build/sell cages, etc., What gauge was the TSC wire? I really don't want to go through the time, effort, and expense to build a cage JUST to have it fail. Yuck.
Don't waste your time with TSC wire or wire available at any feed or home improvement store. I made the mistake of buying some at a feedstore mostly out of impatience ("I want these cages and I want them NOW!") and the welds break. I am going to have to completely dismantle them and build with quality wire at some point. Thankfully I only made a couple with the cheap wire- which was nearly the same price as quality wire.
Do yourself a favor and buy from a rabbit cage company.
Now, for some topics that you didn't address; you will want J-feeders to make your feeding chores easier. I placed mine at a height of 4" above the floor. 6" would be better as it discourages feed scratching.
If you install an automatic water system, the optimal height for the nipple is 9". A laboratory study was conducted to see what height optimized water consumption (the more they drink the more they eat, the faster they grow) and 9" was the magic number. Amazingly, kits just out of the nest have no problem with this height- they simply stand on their hind legs to access the nipple.
If you are going to have 48" wide cages, make sure your doors are very large and centered on the face of the cage. You will undoubtedly have to stick your head and shoulders into the cage to grab a reluctant rabbit more than once.
When installing your floor wire, make certain that the 1/2" side is up. Your rabbit's hocks will thank you.
Invest in at least one pair of quality J-Clip pliers. Look for nice thick handles. The narrow ones will make your hands very sore. However, the narrow ones are good for tight spots. They can also be used to remove misplaced J-clips by inserting one of the tines in the clip and squeezing the handle to re-open the clip.
Buy more J-clips than you think you will need, and purchase the mid-to-heavy weight ones. I clip my floor wire at 2" intervals to provide optimum support. You will waste quite a few clips that don't close properly or are placed in the wrong location. I am OCD with J-clips and like them at even intervals... it takes all my will power to leave one out of place when I mess up despite the fact that I know it will only make the cage stronger.
And finally... :twisted:
...buy more wire than you think you will need. Despite your best intentions, you
will succumb to Rabbitosis and will need many more cages than you think. I would suggest building some smaller 24" x 24" or 30" cages for prospective "keepers" or show prospects.
Welcome to the wonderful world of rabbits! Prepare to lose all self control and restraint, and don't bother trying to fight it. You'll like it here.
Trust me.
