Buck not eating for 4th day, help?

[mcrvdeb]

We are having a week! I have a Tamuk buck (~ 3 years old) that has not eaten any pellets and little if any oat hay since Monday. I noticed he had not eaten more than 1/4 of his measured portion by Tuesday afternoon, which never happens normally. Cleared out remaining pellets, replaced pellets and all hay and water. Poop tray had been cleaned Monday already and there was nothing on it, no urine or poop pellets.
Didn't eat or drink anything that I could see all day Wednesday and there were still no poops or urine on the tray. Wednesday evening I syringe fed him about 15ml of the Critical Care Herbivore mixed with just enough water to get it through the syringe tip.
Didn't eat overnight Wed so yesterday I again syringe fed about 20ml 4 times throughout the day. He swallowed what I gave him, didn't spit anything out, but he made it very clear when he had enough at each attempt. Since the tray was still clean, I could see that he had peed at least twice during the day Thursday and had only 2 poop pellets about the size of an oversized BB.
I have also tried to tempt him with a bit of banana, rolled oats (which he normally loves), calf manna pellets, and a small dish of the Critical Care Herbivore. No go. He hasn't touched any of it.
As of this morning, he had not eaten any of his pellets and it did not appear that he had been drinking overnight. No more poops yet.
Is there anything else I can do? Anything else I can add to his syringe feedings? I'm willing to continue the feedings if there is any chance he will get past this by doing so.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

You could try grinding pellets and putting them into water, then giving it to him
Does his stomach feel stiff? I had a Buck that stopped eating because he has GI Stasis

 

[mcrvdeb]

You could try grinding pellets and putting them into water, then giving it to him
Does his stomach feel stiff? I had a Buck that stopped eating because he has GI Stasis

I had tried the wet pellets on Wed before I did the syringe feeding but he wasn't interested. Stomach doesn't really feel stiff to me, but I don't usually feel his stomach so not sure. I looked up GI stasis after reading your comment and in one resource found the suggestion to give 1-2cc of simethicone every hour for 3 doses. I have that on hand, so I just gave him a dose. They also recommended the syringe feeding I'm already doing so I will continue those today. It was also suggested that the stomach be massaged from neck toward rear. Is that really a thing? He's already mad at me, I guess one more intrusion won't hurt.

 

[Alaska Satin]

We are having a week! I have a Tamuk buck (~ 3 years old) that has not eaten any pellets and little if any oat hay since Monday. I noticed he had not eaten more than 1/4 of his measured portion by Tuesday afternoon, which never happens normally. Cleared out remaining pellets, replaced pellets and all hay and water. Poop tray had been cleaned Monday already and there was nothing on it, no urine or poop pellets.
Didn't eat or drink anything that I could see all day Wednesday and there were still no poops or urine on the tray. Wednesday evening I syringe fed him about 15ml of the Critical Care Herbivore mixed with just enough water to get it through the syringe tip.
Didn't eat overnight Wed so yesterday I again syringe fed about 20ml 4 times throughout the day. He swallowed what I gave him, didn't spit anything out, but he made it very clear when he had enough at each attempt. Since the tray was still clean, I could see that he had peed at least twice during the day Thursday and had only 2 poop pellets about the size of an oversized BB.
I have also tried to tempt him with a bit of banana, rolled oats (which he normally loves), calf manna pellets, and a small dish of the Critical Care Herbivore. No go. He hasn't touched any of it.
As of this morning, he had not eaten any of his pellets and it did not appear that he had been drinking overnight. No more poops yet.
Is there anything else I can do? Anything else I can add to his syringe feedings? I'm willing to continue the feedings if there is any chance he will get past this by doing so.

@RabbitsOfTheCreek is right, you need to get something go in and out of him ASAP. Syringe feeding is an option, and Critical Care is a good choice. You might add NutriDrops for Rabbits, but most of our rabbits don't seem to like that, and honestly, Critical Care is a pretty good nutritional aid by itself. You don't have to mix it super dry, as he needs fluids at least as much as he needs food.

If he is willing to swallow what you put in him, keep that up. If he only takes a mL or two, that's still better than nothing. Just try to get that into him several times throughout the day. If you see any urine or poops, even small hard ones, that's a sign that things aren't hopelessly stalled - aim for that, at first.

Sometimes parsley can tempt a rabbit and improve its appetite. I usually offer the every green thing I can come up with (kale, romaine, dandelion leaves and flowers, chickweed, etc.). Kid of shoving things into his face till he gets annoyed and takes a bite can work, too. But if he's not drinking, either, getting him to eat will probably be all but impossible. Rabbits' bodies can't process food without adequate water.

GI stasis isn't necessarily a disease in itself, rather it's what happens when a rabbit stops eating and/or drinking: everything in the gut gets bound up and stuck, which is why it's so hard to counteract. If things are seriously impacted, no way a rabbit wants to put more in.

One thing we've found with rabbits who've suffered this way is that they often respond to love, simply. We had a Mini Rex that would only eat and drink while my daughter held and petted him (he had one of the worst cases of mucoid enteritis that I've ever seen, but he did make it).

I've read about using simethicone too, but have never had it do anything I could perceive as helpful. Also, it's hard to get a simethicone preparation without all kinds of nasty additives (multiple dyes, titanium dioxide, maltodextrose, silica, polypropylene glycol, even shellac!), which are probably not helpful for a rabbit with a gut ache. Why anyone would add that stuff to a preparation that's supposed to help a gut ache is beyond me!

After four days of this, I wouldn't be super hopeful about pulling your buck around, but as long as the rabbit is willing to keep hanging in there, I'd keep trying. The fact that you did get some urine and poo out of him is hopeful. You might have to keep forcing the issue for a few days until his system gets moving on its own again. We've had rabbits, and other animals, pull through things the "experts" assured us never would happen!

Good luck and God bless!

 

[mcrvdeb]

@RabbitsOfTheCreek is right, you need to get something go in and out of him ASAP. Syringe feeding is an option, and Critical Care is a good choice. You might add NutriDrops for Rabbits, but most of our rabbits don't seem to like that, and honestly, Critical Care is a pretty good nutritional aid by itself. You don't have to mix it super dry, as he needs fluids at least as much as he needs food.

If he is willing to swallow what you put in him, keep that up. If he only takes a mL or two, that's still better than nothing. Just try to get that into him several times throughout the day. If you see any urine or poops, even small hard ones, that's a sign that things aren't hopelessly stalled - aim for that, at first.

Sometimes parsley can tempt a rabbit and improve its appetite. I usually offer the every green thing I can come up with (kale, romaine, dandelion leaves and flowers, chickweed, etc.). Kid of shoving things into his face till he gets annoyed and takes a bite can work, too. But if he's not drinking, either, getting him to eat will probably be all but impossible. Rabbits' bodies can't process food without adequate water.

GI stasis isn't necessarily a disease in itself, rather it's what happens when a rabbit stops eating and/or drinking: everything in the gut gets bound up and stuck, which is why it's so hard to counteract. If things are seriously impacted, no way a rabbit wants to put more in.

One thing we've found with rabbits who've suffered this way is that they often respond to love, simply. We had a Mini Rex that would only eat and drink while my daughter held and petted him (he had one of the worst cases of mucoid enteritis that I've ever seen, but he did make it).

I've read about using simethicone too, but have never had it do anything I could perceive as helpful. Also, it's hard to get a simethicone preparation without all kinds of nasty additives (multiple dyes, titanium dioxide, maltodextrose, silica, polypropylene glycol, even shellac!), which are probably not helpful for a rabbit with a gut ache. Why anyone would add that stuff to a preparation that's supposed to help a gut ache is beyond me!

After four days of this, I wouldn't be super hopeful about pulling your buck around, but as long as the rabbit is willing to keep hanging in there, I'd keep trying. The fact that you did get some urine and poo out of him is hopeful. You might have to keep forcing the issue for a few days until his system gets moving on its own again. We've had rabbits, and other animals, pull through things the "experts" assured us never would happen!

Good luck and God bless!

What about yogurt? Worth a try or not? I don't want to make anything worse, but willing to give anything a shot. I don't have any fresh greens of any sort (produce or wild plant) here. Are there any dry herbs that might stimulate digestion in rabbits?

 

[Alaska Satin]

What about yogurt? Worth a try or not? I don't want to make anything worse, but willing to give anything a shot. I don't have any fresh greens of any sort (produce or wild plant) here. Are there any dry herbs that might stimulate digestion in rabbits?

I've had a few Mini Rex with mucoid enteritis take plain yogurt (homemade, nothing with added gelatin, sugar, etc.). I agree, at this point, I'd be willing to try just about anything. I've never had a rabbit very interested in dried herbs, but it's worth a shot if it gets him eating anything. You do still need to get fluids into him or he won't eat, which is one of the reasons greens and fresh herbs can be helpful.

Maybe you could get some fresh kale, lettuce, baby greens or parsley at a nearby store? Good for both of you.

 

[Preitler]

I had tried the wet pellets on Wed before I did the syringe feeding but he wasn't interested. Stomach doesn't really feel stiff to me, but I don't usually feel his stomach so not sure. I looked up GI stasis after reading your comment and in one resource found the suggestion to give 1-2cc of simethicone every hour for 3 doses. I have that on hand, so I just gave him a dose. They also recommended the syringe feeding I'm already doing so I will continue those today. It was also suggested that the stomach be massaged from neck toward rear. Is that really a thing? He's already mad at me, I guess one more intrusion won't hurt.

Well, yes, that is a thing. Usually I try to make them hop for a few minutes, which has the same effect, or put the rabbit on my knees, facing me and rock the whole rabbit for 5-10 minutes now and then. It does help getting things moving.

Simethicone should be at least 20mg per serving, there are several different concentrations out there so 1-2ml doesn't say much, good thing is that too much doesn't have side effects, it just needs a minimum amount to do the job - torning gas into a foam that can be passed way more easily. Gas can easily build to painful levels when digestions slows down. Kids formulas are perfectly ok, you just want one with high concentration so the amount to give is small.
I follow that with some water, if they don't eat they quite likely are dehydrated too. I also mix Meloxicam into it.

Is he in molt? One cause that they stop eating if they ingest too much hair, brushing and plucking out as much as possible helps. In that case Also give 1ml of mineral oil, bit controversial due to aspiration risk, but I never had a problem.

Last year I lost a doe due to blocked intestines, got her to the vet after 2 days of nothing working but she was beyond saving. I treat it as an emergency as soon as a rabbit behaves wrong at 2 feedings, not eating veggies and pellets rings alarm bells.

When they don't eat I offer everything, all fresh green stuff I can find, and herbs like carrot tops, parsley or celery - just to get them eating.

 

[mcrvdeb]

Update for today. Buck (Tim) is now drinking water from bowl, and after syringe feeding past 2+ days, he is producing a few little poop pellets. He is hanging in there. Stopped fighting the syringe feedings AND did eat nearly all of a romaine leaf today!! YEA!! I know it's not nearly over, but a little more optimistic than yesterday.

I only did 2 doses of the simethicone (20mg/0.3ml) yesterday. He really doesn't seem to be in pain at this point; not hunched over either. Moving around the cage, cleaning himself (not in molt), chewing on a pine cone. Seems as alert as usual.

@Alaska Satan, I laughed about the "nearby" grocery store. We live 1 1/2 hours from the nearest grocery store (a Walmart), so we usually go to town only once a month for groceries, twice if we have to pick up anything else. Feed store for rabbit and chicken food is same distance in the opposite direction so we buy in bulk. I did make an extra trip yesterday afternoon just for Tim, so he has a buffet of greens from which to choose at the moment. Started with parsley and romaine. Not interested in parsley but romaine is a winner at the moment.

I hope it's ok if I just keep updating post, as much for my records or future reference or as general info for others. I have read many "please help" posts that don't indicate if the suggestions offered actually helped or not. Or if the OP found another alternative option for care that did work. Often just wonder what the outcome ended up being.

 

[Robochelle]

If he's eating the romaine, I wonder if you can do the ol' hide-the-medicine-in-the-treat trick.

He really needs fiber to fill up his digestive system, especially now that he's turned the corner; I suggest hiding some soft fiber (like oats, or hay dust, or that parsley you mentioned, or the wet pellet paste) as the 'meat' of a sandwich with romaine as the 'bread', and see if he goes for it. If he doesn't, no harm no foul, but if he does you'll have a much easier time of feeding him.

 

[Preitler]

Right, I always give meds on a little oatmeal if the rabbit does eat.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Update for today. Buck (Tim) is now drinking water from bowl, and after syringe feeding past 2+ days, he is producing a few little poop pellets. He is hanging in there. Stopped fighting the syringe feedings AND did eat nearly all of a romaine leaf today!! YEA!! I know it's not nearly over, but a little more optimistic than yesterday.

I only did 2 doses of the simethicone (20mg/0.3ml) yesterday. He really doesn't seem to be in pain at this point; not hunched over either. Moving around the cage, cleaning himself (not in molt), chewing on a pine cone. Seems as alert as usual.

@Alaska Satan, I laughed about the "nearby" grocery store. We live 1 1/2 hours from the nearest grocery store (a Walmart), so we usually go to town only once a month for groceries, twice if we have to pick up anything else. Feed store for rabbit and chicken food is same distance in the opposite direction so we buy in bulk. I did make an extra trip yesterday afternoon just for Tim, so he has a buffet of greens from which to choose at the moment. Started with parsley and romaine. Not interested in parsley but romaine is a winner at the moment.

I hope it's ok if I just keep updating post, as much for my records or future reference or as general info for others. I have read many "please help" posts that don't indicate if the suggestions offered actually helped or not. Or if the OP found another alternative option for care that did work. Often just wonder what the outcome ended up being.

YAY! Those are great, wonderful, hopeful signs!

We live quite a way from the nearest grocery store, too , though not an hour and a half. I suppose that, in NM, like where we live, growing fresh things in the garden is only possible for short periods of the year. You might consider getting set up to grow some fodder indoors for cases like this, so a run to the store isn't necessary. I have very rarely had any animal in any condition, mammal or bird, that was not interested in some fresh fodder.

I always keep some seeds on hand to use for fodder. I start with seed, a mason jar and a screen/piece of cheesecloth used to drain the jar. I put seeds (any seeds, really, sunflower, alfalfa, beans - in a pinch I've used canary seed, though I prefer fast-sprouting seeds like broccoli) in the jar, fill it to cover the seeds with water, then in a few hours drain it. I add a touch of ACV to keep mold from growing. I usually give it a rinse once or twice a day (always water with a splash of ACV). As soon as I see sprouting starting, I spread the whole mess out in a tray made out of an empty plastic lunch meat contain - the flat rectangular kind - with holes punched in the bottom for drainage, and spray daily. If you let the sprouts grow big enough, you can lift the whole mat out and give it to the rabbit (or birds, as the case may be). You can actually start the seed in the tray to begin with, but I started out using the mason jars and am a creature of habit.

If you have a sunny window to put it, the sprouts will green up nicely (and that also helps keep mold at bay), but here in the long dark it still grows and the animals still eat it, even if it's not so green. Good ventilation is important (again, mold concerns). It is also important to keep it from drying out, since once the seeds start germinating, if they dry out, they'll die (the actual sprouts are more resistant to dryness, though if you let the roots get completely dry, they'll die and not come back, too).

If he's eating the romaine, I wonder if you can do the ol' hide-the-medicine-in-the-treat trick.

He really needs fiber to fill up his digestive system, especially now that he's turned the corner; I suggest hiding some soft fiber (like oats, or hay dust, or that parsley you mentioned, or the wet pellet paste) as the 'meat' of a sandwich with romaine as the 'bread', and see if he goes for it. If he doesn't, no harm no foul, but if he does you'll have a much easier time of feeding him.

If you keep up the Critical Care, that is a good source of fiber. Sure, offer him whatever he'll eat; but I've found that once they start eating again, they seem to know what they need. Make sure he's got lots of fresh water and clean hay!

 

[mcrvdeb]

YAY! Those are great, wonderful, hopeful signs!

We live quite a way from the nearest grocery store, too , though not an hour and a half. I suppose that, in NM, like where we live, growing fresh things in the garden is only possible for short periods of the year. You might consider getting set up to grow some fodder indoors for cases like this, so a run to the store isn't necessary. I have very rarely had any animal in any condition, mammal or bird, that was not interested in some fresh fodder.

I always keep some seeds on hand to use for fodder. I start with seed, a mason jar and a screen/piece of cheesecloth used to drain the jar. I put seeds (any seeds, really, sunflower, alfalfa, beans - in a pinch I've used canary seed, though I prefer fast-sprouting seeds like broccoli) in the jar, fill it to cover the seeds with water, then in a few hours drain it. I add a touch of ACV to keep mold from growing. I usually give it a rinse once or twice a day (always water with a splash of ACV). As soon as I see sprouting starting, I spread the whole mess out in a tray made out of an empty plastic lunch meat contain - the flat rectangular kind - with holes punched in the bottom for drainage, and spray daily. If you let the sprouts grow big enough, you can lift the whole mat out and give it to the rabbit (or birds, as the case may be). You can actually start the seed in the tray to begin with, but I started out using the mason jars and am a creature of habit.

If you have a sunny window to put it, the sprouts will green up nicely (and that also helps keep mold at bay), but here in the long dark it still grows and the animals still eat it, even if it's not so green. Good ventilation is important (again, mold concerns). It is also important to keep it from drying out, since once the seeds start germinating, if they dry out, they'll die (the actual sprouts are more resistant to dryness, though if you let the roots get completely dry, they'll die and not come back, too).


If you keep up the Critical Care, that is a good source of fiber. Sure, offer him whatever he'll eat; but I've found that once they start eating again, they seem to know what they need. Make sure he's got lots of fresh water and clean hay!

So Tim has produced a number of regular sized poops and is now eating romaine, rolled oats, and mint. No pellets yet. I believe he is also eating some oat hay which is kind of a surprise because he is not a big hay eater normally. The previous owner didn't ever feed hay or greens and none of my Tamuks were really interested in eating it in the beginning. He was my one hold-out, everyone else eats a ton of it now, he usually barely touches it although it's always available. I think I'm going to stop the Critical Care this afternoon and just keep fresh greens and oats available. Never dreamed I'd be counting poop pellets, lol!

We are huge fans of microgreens normally, but we now live in a small cabin and the indoor grow shelving had just been converted to garden starts last week . My resident gardener husband is going to start a tray of arugula and sunflower for me. I wish rabbits liked fermented foods; I have a refrigerator full of every type of vegetable that can be fermented.

Thanks to everyone for your guidance. I really appreciate it. We had moved to this area recently and I don't live near to or know anyone close. This forum has been a huge help to me.