Breeding rabbits with snuffles

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

I am just wondering if it would be ok to breed a rabbit who had snuffles but got over it(not being treated with penicillin or any antibiotics)? I know alot of breeders say to cull but I have spent to much money on him so I will just keep him as a pet if not a breeder :?
Anyway just wanted you opinions
Thanks

 

[Miss M]

It's really up to you.

Some would advise you to cull, since a rabbit that has never shown signs of illness is usually considered better than one that has... even though that rabbit recovered. It may have had the immune system to mount a good fight, but it wasn't strong enough to ward off the illness completely. Some breeders (usually have lost large numbers to an illness at some point) will not breed a rabbit that has shown any sign of weakness, to keep the weak genes out of their herd.

Others would be willing to give the rabbit a chance at siring healthy kits, since he recovered. Especially with a lot of money invested in the rabbit.

You just need to settle these questions:

How important is this rabbit to your breeding program?
How important are all your other rabbits to your breeding program?
Is this rabbit important enough to you to risk your other rabbits for?

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm facing the same situtation with on of my expensive Angoras.

First, she does not appear to be seriously ill, I hardly hear any sneezing anymore, when the weather is below 80.

But... I pulled her litter because of the sneezing and have lost 3 of 5.

Second, any buck I put her with cannot rejoin the others in the barn. And she will never leave QT alive.

Third, there is no guarantee that the kits will live next time around.

A little different with a doe than a buck, but remission does not mean it is not contagious, if indeed it was snuffles.

If you have a doe that you can QT along with him, it might be worthwhile.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I would never breed a doe that had snuffles or any other respiratory infection, as I find that they usually carry it and pass it to the kits, ending up killing them even though the doe has no signs of an active infection. If anything, I will cull the doe or send her through a round of antibiotics and find her a retirement home with the full disclosure that she is NOT to be bred and has had an illness before.

If a buck is showing no signs though, I will breed him. My Sage bunny got snuffles once when he got hairball and while molting out, and then had a huge storm come through. The cold temperatures, his low weight, and being almost naked caused him to have a pasturella out break. I immediately put him on Baytril and QT him for 3 weeks, though he showed no signs of it after the first dose and has had no reoccurance a since. He is a beautiful buck and I have a very small rabbitry, so he is important to my program. Not to mention, he was my first angora, so he's my baby. Almost anyone else I would have culled immediately. You probably will want to quarantine the doe and make sure she doesn't show signs of contracting anything, but it is possible for a buck that has had pasturella before to sire perfectly healthy kits with a doe, without infecting the doe as well.

As far as for the future, I would be cautious to select for hardy stock. I have been noticing lately that while my bunnies that have been coming from breeders who raise them organically without meds or vaccinations are not always perfect in terms of show quality, they are good mothers and very resistant, hardy buggers. My doe that I recently got from a breeder who vaccinated their stock for P is almost the most beautiful doe in my rabbitry, but is sneezing at every little thing. I have seen no signs to indicate anything more than just that its dust getting up her nose that she is having an allergic reaction to, but it still makes me paranoid.

 

[Prisma]

Would never breed and then too I would never buy from some one doing such, if I found out some one didn't tell me that they were doing that, I wouldn't sit and let it go. I would want a refund for being lied to about the rabbit, especially since lately I've been spending more than I would have ever thought of on rabbits to get a GOOD competitive start in Hollands and Mini Rex this time.

 

[ottersatin]

I would be extremely watchful of
all of the offspring!
You do want to hold on to the ones
that show no symptoms, but the moment they do,
they should be immediately culled, as in permanently!
It is not worth your while to play around with something
as devastating as Pasteurella. [Been there, done that]
You could end up euthanizing the majority of your herd.
However, if you do produce a truly resistant kit/offspring,
that would/could be the beginning of your disease resistant herd!
Trust me, it WORKS! I have been breeding toward disease resistance
ever since my first battle with Pasteurella. You must be vigilant
maybe even a little heartless. Do not allow any rabbit that shows
any signs of weakness/illness to remain in the herd, it must be
removed/euthanized ASAP! Do not falter or all of your work could
end up being for naught!
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I am just wondering if it would be ok to breed a rabbit who had snuffles but got over it(not being treated with penicillin or any antibiotics)? I know alot of breeders say to cull but I have spent to much money on him so I will just keep him as a pet if not a breeder :?
Anyway just wanted you opinions
Thanks

In the first place, what do you mean by "snuffles"? If you mean pasteurella, then no. Rabbits don't "get over" Pasteurella unfortunately.... His symptoms just went away. He still has it. What you CAN do, if you just have to try, is give him a course of antibiotics to suppress the bacteria, then table breed him to a doe (to limit exposure). You will have to keep them all quarantined, separately, until you know the doe/kits don't have it.

If you keep him as a pet, you are STILL risking the rest of your rabbits being exposed to it, as Pasteurella is spread by direct contact and you will have to maintain strict hygiene protocols to keep it from spreading.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

It's going to be really hard replying to all of you lol so I will do it in one and hope I say everything.
First thanks for all the info/help I am/was kinda lost.
Anyway got him as a baby and I doubt she knew he had or was gonna have a respiratory issue and he's a SR now and it happens in the summer when it was getting hot(i had some tell me it could bebfrom the heat) but ye is hacking and sneezing and there is discharge I treated with penicillin maybe 4 ish times and I saw no improvement at all maybe even a little worse. Anyway I have given him a few doses of ionic silver and the discharge has majorly reduced and i don't hear him sneezing and hacking as bad if any(maybe I'm not there at the right time I don't know).
He is pretty valuable to me he is a lionhead and is a perfect imo lionhead he's small compact just perfect I do have another so it's not like I don't have a buck but I have never spent this much money on one rabbit I was so excited to breed him but before he was old enough he got this stuff(don't even really know what it is)He is in qt so I don't think he can spread it as for now he's just my sick pet lol and i don't want to sell him and I can't kill him(i don't have it in me lol) so a reply to ottersatin I guess I can't use him cause I can't kill helpless baby bunnies lol.
I'm pretty much on a dead end with this as I don't know what to do I have plenty of pet rabbits and i can't gather the guts to euthanize and i don't think it would be right to sell him??
Thanks again guys so much for all your replies and info its really appreciated

PS I hope I got to all of the replies?:/

 

[skysthelimit]

I know we don't really know what it is, and you would have a hard time culling, but do you have the ability to keep him in QT for the rest of his life?

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Well imo his quarantine isn't exactly jail lol its more like spoiled house bunny (although he's not in the house) he's in an excersise pen with wire ontop so he doesn't jump out something don't jump in and he has hiding spots and hay etc so I don't really feel bad except for his "snuffles" thing.
Is there something anyone would suggest to coat or cover it up so he don't hack no.more? I've tried pen.that didn't go to well and the silver seems to be doing something but I just don't want him to suffer I mean he looks fine he eats drinks jumps and plays??

Thanks

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I have given him a few doses of ionic silver and the discharge has majorly reduced and i don't hear him sneezing and hacking as bad if any

Colloidial silver is amazing stuff... why don't you try placing a couple drops into each nostril for a week or so and see if it helps any?

I've tried pen.that didn't go to well and the silver seems to be doing something but I just don't want him to suffer I mean he looks fine he eats drinks jumps and plays??

If it is Pasteurella, he eventually will suffer. Until then, you can just monitor his behavior and condition, and give him the best life you can. Please don't let him linger when he starts feeling poorly, though.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Well imo his quarantine isn't exactly jail lol its more like spoiled house bunny (although he's not in the house) he's in an excersise pen with wire ontop so he doesn't jump out something don't jump in and he has hiding spots and hay etc so I don't really feel bad except for his "snuffles" thing.
Is there something anyone would suggest to coat or cover it up so he don't hack no.more? I've tried pen.that didn't go to well and the silver seems to be doing something but I just don't want him to suffer I mean he looks fine he eats drinks jumps and plays??

Thanks

Is the discharge a white snot? If so, you aren't doing him any favors by keeping him alive unless you plan to keep him medicated for the rest of his life with Baytril, which is prescription only from the vet. He could easily end up with pneumonia and die anyway. Part of being a breeder is knowing when NOT to treat and when to intervene to prevent or end suffering. I hope you told the breeder you got him from, as she needs to know that she has this going on in her barn.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Oh I was giving it orally. But ya I will try in the nose thanks

I have given him a few doses of ionic silver and the discharge has majorly reduced and i don't hear him sneezing and hacking as bad if any

Colloidial silver is amazing stuff... why don't you try placing a couple drops into each nostril for a week or so and see if it helps any?

I've tried pen.that didn't go to well and the silver seems to be doing something but I just don't want him to suffer I mean he looks fine he eats drinks jumps and plays??

If it is Pasteurella, he eventually will suffer. Until then, you can just monitor his behavior and condition, and give him the best life you can. Please don't let him linger when he starts feeling poorly, though.

__________ Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:34 pm __________

No its not white. Definitely wontlet him suffer( i can't handle that either ) but right now I don't THINK? He is doing poorly he acts just normal.
I think I can keep him there for quite a good while as he's not near my breeding stock.
Well I'm going to try a few more things etc and do more research ( cause what he has don't quite seem like "snuffles" or pasturella
Thanks again<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:38 pm __________<br /><br />Yes I did tell the breeder and she has helped me alot aswell also she doesn't have anything like this in her herd

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

Colloidial silver is amazing stuff... why don't you try placing a couple drops into each nostril for a week or so and see if it helps any?

I use that stuff on my own ear infections. Amazing stuff. Didn't even think about using it on the rabbits!

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

I am going to start giving it to all my rabbits once in a while just to prevent


Update: so I went out to clean cages etc and checked on him and his nose has no discharge at all and is slightly wet?
I will see if I can find a pic of what it looks like ok can't find one anyway its just kinda around the nostril.
Do any of you have any idea of what this could be??(very confusing for me)
Thanks

 

[ottersatin]

Colloidal silver is amazing stuff... why don't you try placing a couple drops into each nostril for a week or so and see if it helps any?

Though it sounds like a GREAT idea! All it will do is mask the symptoms,
allowing the infection to easily spread further throughout the Herd.
This is about the same thing that "VetRX" does. At one time, in the late fifties
VetRX was known as "Save the Baby". It did nothing but mask the symptoms.
The only cure for Pasteurella is euthanasia.
It is not wise to play around with the members of your herd,
perhaps I am wrong but I refuse to risk the health of my entire herd
for the life of one or two individuals.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Ok but if it is masked can i keep him as a pet and he will not be suffering? In qt still?(or could he be rehomes?)

Colloidal silver is amazing stuff... why don't you try placing a couple drops into each nostril for a week or so and see if it helps any?

Though it sounds like a GREAT idea! All it will do is mask the symptoms,
allowing the infection to easily spread further throughout the Herd.
This is about the same thing that "VetRX" does. At one time, in the late fifties
VetRX was known as "Save the Baby". It did nothing but mask the symptoms.
The only cure for Pasteurella is euthanasia.
It is not wise to play around with the members of your herd,
perhaps I am wrong but I refuse to risk the health of my entire herd
for the life of one or two individuals.
Ottersatin. ldtimer:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Though it sounds like a GREAT idea! All it will do is mask the symptoms,
allowing the infection to easily spread further throughout the Herd.

Quite true... but it may make him more comfortable since euthanasia is not considered an option at this time.

I don't keep any animals with symptoms, either. With an average population of fifty or more rabbits at any time, I simply will not take the chance.

 

[squidpop]

I wrote a thread on hear about my rabbit and treating with Azithromycin. He was sneezing lots of white toothpaste like snot, all over front legs and everything— and first thing vet tried was tetracyclin and cleared up for 3 days then came back. Then I went to a specialist and she prescribed the Azithromycin. I treated him for 8 weeks starting November last year- so he has been better for 11 months. I've bred him and no other rabbits that I have ever became sick. He also got a bad puncture wound about 6 months ago and vet gave him a shot of Convenia which is another controversial modern antibiotic so maybe that helped knock out the virus.

Anyway, I really recommend Azithromycin.
Since my rabbit got the P originally I did a lot of research and investigation. There is a person who runs wildlife rescue in the US and he has his own Vet on duty- named Randy and he posts advice on another rabbit forum. He said that in his rescue they treat basically with Azithromycin as their antibiotic of first choice and for skin infections Convenia. Baytril was also discussed as being completely useless. I also did research on Azithromycin in general and it is used in humans for deep tissue infections of the lungs- pneumonia because it has a novel way of going into deep tissue and targeting infection.

Reading through this thread about the Lionhead hacking, I'm not sure about its symtoms and whether its an infection or not. Maybe it could be hay lodged in a nostril or an allergy.

 

[Northwinds Rabbitry]

Thanks squidpop for that info
Ya I can't say for sure if it is "snuffles" cause he never got mated front feet etc and now he seems ok??? I'm confused lol.
I will do some research on that swell do know if they sell it in Canada?
Thanks