Blasted Rabbit Colors!!!

[Susie570]

I'm in the 'Mini Lops, All Inclusive' group and people ask about rabbit colors.

First, I was surprised to discover that there is such a thing as a 'sable chin', since I thought the chin gene removed yellow coloring from the coat. Apparently, it just removes it from the central color band in the agouti marking (??)

Second, a gal was asking about the colors of her rabbits today and I said that two of them were opals (blue with agouti marks and brownish cast to the coat). I was corrected and told that there is 'no such thing' as a 'blue opal'. o.0

I thought an opal WAS a blue agouti with the brownish markings and without the brownish markings, it's chin??? wth??

 

[Wheels]

have you seen this link?
http://www.hoppinherdofhares.com/lopcolorguide.html

it may give you a warning - it's not an attack site - I haven't had any issue with it but use your best judgement

anyway if YOU DO look at it - there's lots of nice photographs of many of the lop colors - you might find it helpful

 

[Dood]

It's impossible to be sable and chin at the same time (although a chinchilla can secretly carry sable ) and they should be called "sable agouti" which looks like a chin so people call them sable chin instead :shrug:

Like wise a chinchilla looking rabbit should be called "black chinchilla agouti" because you can get blue, chocolate and lilac versions as well as frosty, sable frosty, self chin and sallander (= self, chin and non-extension) but for simplicity sake we just call them "chin" as the default colour

This is why knowing the genotype is soooo handy :mrgreen:

Opals are blue/dilute agouti so calling an Opal a "blue Opal" is redundant and is like saying "blue blue agouti" or "double blue agouti"

 

[Susie570]

It's impossible to be sable and chin at the same time (although a chinchilla can secretly carry sable ) and they should be called "sable agouti" which looks like a chin so people call them sable chin instead :shrug:

Like wise a chinchilla looking rabbit should be called "black chinchilla agouti" because you can get blue, chocolate and lilac versions as well as frosty, sable frosty, self chin and sallander (= self, chin and non-extension) but for simplicity sake we just call them "chin" as the default colour

This is why knowing the genotype is soooo handy :mrgreen:

Opals are blue/dilute agouti so calling an Opal a "blue Opal" is redundant and is like saying "blue blue agouti" or "double blue agouti"

ah-HAH!!!!! I KNEW IT!!!! (regarding the 'sable chin')
I have people arguing with me that 'chin' simply means 'agouti' and has NOTHING TO DO with color!!!! :evil:
Unfortunately, the ARBA SOP for Mini Lops apparently recognizes 'Sable Chin'. *facepalm*

I was arguing that the Chin gene strips the yellow color from the coat. It basically makes the rabbits look like they're in a black and white film.
Well, it's comforting to know that I am getting an understanding of how the colors work, even if the SOP doesn't agree with me. :roll:

Of course, maybe that's NOT actually in the SOP. I haven't seen it for myself.

 

[Dood]

Well, they can call colour combinations whatever they like

In Rex they have "castors" and "Amber" and in Angora dark shaded/chin and light shaded/sables are both called "Pearl" and Satins call their sallanders "Siamese Satin" but your right that "sable chin" is not genetically accurate and just adds to the confusion :groooan:

 

[Susie570]

This is the alleged 'Sable Chin' (people keep referring me to this website for ML colors)

http://www.rebeccasrabbitry.com/minilopcolorguide.html

 

[fhjmom]

It's impossible to be sable and chin at the same time (although a chinchilla can secretly carry sable ) and they should be called "sable agouti" which looks like a chin so people call them sable chin instead :shrug:

Like wise a chinchilla looking rabbit should be called "black chinchilla agouti" because you can get blue, chocolate and lilac versions as well as frosty, sable frosty, self chin and sallander (= self, chin and non-extension) but for simplicity sake we just call them "chin" as the default colour

This is why knowing the genotype is soooo handy :mrgreen:

Opals are blue/dilute agouti so calling an Opal a "blue Opal" is redundant and is like saying "blue blue agouti" or "double blue agouti"

ah-HAH!!!!! I KNEW IT!!!! (regarding the 'sable chin')
I have people arguing with me that 'chin' simply means 'agouti' and has NOTHING TO DO with color!!!! :evil:
Unfortunately, the ARBA SOP for Mini Lops apparently recognizes 'Sable Chin'. *facepalm*

I was arguing that the Chin gene strips the yellow color from the coat. It basically makes the rabbits look like they're in a black and white film.
Well, it's comforting to know that I am getting an understanding of how the colors work, even if the SOP doesn't agree with me. :roll:

Of course, maybe that's NOT actually in the SOP. I haven't seen it for myself.

I am looking at both my SOP and my Mini Lop Guidebook. This is the way it is listed in the SOP:
Agouti Group:
Chinchilla (Black, Blue, Chocolate, Lilac, Sable, or Smoke Pearl basic colors)
Chestnut Agouti (Black or chocolate basic colors)
Lynx
Opal

And in the Guidebook, the following pictures are listed under the heading "Agouti":
Black Chinchilla
Blue Chinchilla
Chocolate Chinchilla
Lilac Chinchilla
Chestnut agouti
Opal
Chocolate chestnut
Lynx
Then there is a pic comparing an opal and a lynx.

HTH!

 

[Dood]

Ok, so sable agouti are shown in the chinchilla "group" and that's likely why they call them "sable chin"

A sable agouti should be disqualified from the table in the majority of breeds but pretty much every colour combo is accepted in Mini Lops (and French ) so getting it genetically "right" is not as critical because you cannot really produce an un-showable colour

 

[Susie570]

Ok, so sable agouti are shown in the chinchilla "group" and that's likely why they call them "sable chin"

A sable agouti should be disqualified from the table in the majority of breeds but pretty much every colour combo is accepted in Mini Lops (and French ) so getting it genetically "right" is not as critical because you cannot really produce an un-showable colour

Harlis are not a recognized ML color
Neither is Otter

 

[Dood]

No fair - Harli isn't accepted in ANY breed except Harlequins

I don't know why otters arent accepted :shrug: I'd LOVE to see a blue fox Mini Lop and otter sallanders are to DIE for !!!!

 

[Zass]

No fair - Harli isn't accepted in ANY breed except Harlequins

I don't know why otters arent accepted :shrug: I'd LOVE to see a blue fox Mini Lop and otter sallanders are to DIE for !!!!

:shock: Any pics???

 

[Susie570]

No fair - Harli isn't accepted in ANY breed except Harlequins

I don't know why otters arent accepted :shrug: I'd LOVE to see a blue fox Mini Lop and otter sallanders are to DIE for !!!!

What does a blue Fox look like?

I don't understand why opal is fine but otter is not. :roll:

 

[Dood]

Here is a blue martenized sallander http://www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/ent ... ml?id=1016

 

[Susie570]

That's a pretty rabbit

 

[Celice]

No fair - Harli isn't accepted in ANY breed except Harlequins

I don't know why otters arent accepted :shrug: I'd LOVE to see a blue fox Mini Lop and otter sallanders are to DIE for !!!!

which really stinks! 'cause Harli rex are beautiful!!! I'm going to be working on my rex colors this year!

 

[Zass]

Would sallander be the correct term if it's tan based and not self??

I think I like "blue chin fox" (fox being tort otter) better, though I could see some confusion with blue silver fox in the us, or blue silver martins since they are also called silver fox overseas.

 

[Dood]

There are totters / fox / tort otters on Nock's site - http://www.nockrabbits.com/tortotter.html

I once had a lovely chocolate tort otter, she looked like a blend of chocolate, caramel and nougat

 

[akane]

I really think we need a different name for at* chd* ee rabbits. Mine did not look like an aa sallander. If we differentiate "A" from "a" we should have a name for "at". Granted "at" has much the same impact on the body color as "a" and not the ticking of agouti. There are still differences. Such as white bellies and under tails. There also seems to be a darker tort like pattern across self sallanders while "at" rabbits are a bit creamier. The variation is so great though that overlaps can happen.

 

[Susie570]

Would sallander be the correct term if it's tan based and not self??

I think I like "blue fox" (fox being tort otter) better, though I could see some confusion with blue silver fox in the us, or blue silver martins since they are also called silver fox overseas.

Ohhhhhh.... ok.
Yup, that would be an interesting Mini!" <br /><br /> __________ Tue May 12, 2015 5:40 pm __________ <br /><br />

Derf....

 

[Zass]

Oh wow, I'd be hard pressed to ID that one as an adult!!! (especially with the mane) It looks too much like lynx or lilac GTS.