Black X Black = Red?

[Skyz84]

Ok, normally a raise mini rex and I know what to expect but I've started a new side project with some tiny little dwarf crosses.... I'm totally confused on this one!

Dad: Black Dutch Marked


Mom: Broken Black & White


Babies came out Red & Red Dutch....


I was reading a previous post that these babies could be torts? Is that true? What would these babies be.. aa B- C- D- ee ?
Here are photos from when they were a little smaller.



Now, I bred same Black Dutch Marked buck to a Chocolate and got 3 solid Torts. Very obvious Torts.

 

[akane]

Those should be red/orange. Someone is not black or you have an oopsy breeding to another buck. They can breed through wire sometimes. To get torts from a rabbit that can make red you just need a self gene. aa C* ee is a tort and A*C*ee is a red. Very little difference so it's quite common to get both. The problem is you need that agouti gene to make a red and 2 blacks does not have an agouti gene. Self chin wouldn't have an agouti gene either. A super steel would not be able to throw ee kits. Something weird is going on.

 

[Skyz84]

Well I'm 100% on this breeding.
These two are housed in a 2 hutch side by side so no optional oops besides to that one buck.
I also have no other dutch marked rabbits in the barn. (Just the dad). So no chance of a mix up.

Last breeding was mom to my tri and I got 2 broken black babies that looks a lot like mom.

 

[Zass]

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Here are my orange looking torts as kits, you can still tell them apart because of the dark ears and their bellies are not nice and white like yours.

No...getting reds out of two blacks is kinda crazy. One has to be a steel masked agouti, and they both have to be carrying non-extension.

A rabbit DOES NOT need two copies of steel to look black. One copy of the gene can do the trick.

It would be neat to see what they threw for a second litter.

 

[Skyz84]

Well at least I know I'm not crazy. I was up tell the wee hours of the morning trying to figure this out. I didn't think their was any way possible 2 blacks could make a red. But I'm so sure about this breeding. Without a doubt. No mix up possible. They live side by side. I have notes written down. 1 red baby even came out dutch marked when I don't have any other dutch in the barn. (Mainly Mini Rex) Plus I was excited to see this pairing since both are my smallest rabbits. (Both under 3lbs full grown).


Who would be a good candidate to breed the black dutch to test him? I'll be keeping the little red dutch marked daughter but it will be a while before I can breed her...

I have the following does I could breed him to:
Black Otter
Tri Color
Broken Red
Blue (due soon with his babies but I'm not certain she took)
Chocolate (his litter to my chocolate doe all look to be torts)
Opal
Harlie
Tort (still a little young but maybe in a month or two)

 

[Zass]

My first choice would be the tort, because you already know for a fact that she is aa and ee, so anything odd can be attributed to the buck.

 

[Dood]

I'd test breed the doe instead since the buck has never produced any agouti based kits before

I suspect she is a steel chestnut, and since she carries non-extension the steel gene is likely making her very dark, also since a Tri is basically a broken harlequin those "broken blacks" could actually carry the harli gene - I've had a few steel harlequins (Es ej) and they looked self black

If my suspicions are correct and she is A_ B_ C_ D_ Ese then you should breed her to a self buck who doesn't have harli or non extension - aa __ __ __ EE

You should get solid and broken chestnuts and gold tipped steels

 

[Skyz84]

Dood,

Bucks I have:

Blue (who from my other post we now know is likely hiding steel)
Magpie
Tri
red/fawn/orange = Aa B_ Ccchl Dd ee <-- from my other post

However, this is a tiny doe. Just a few ounces shy of 3lbs. My blue buck is closer to 5lbs.. my red buck is a little smaller but still bigger then she is. Think this will be OK? I've always bred the other way. Larger does/smaller bucks... I had bred her to the Dutch and Tri before since both of those bucks are in the 3lb range.