Baby colors REW?

[chaoskittiez]

I took in a bunny a week ago. She gave birth yesterday. She is a tiny little REW lop. I have 5 babies that I’m fretting over thinking about how I’m going to find them homes. I’m worried that 3 are rew and a black. Can someone help with bunny color? If this goes against a rule please let me know.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Looks like REWs or Himis, solids (probably Black), and an Otter (either Blue or Black)

 

[eco2pia]

The "otter" could also be chinchilla, that is about what my newborn babies look like.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Those look like such healthy bunnies!
I agree with both posts above...the pink ones could be REWs, or could end up developing "points" as himalayans. The one with a pale belly could be an otter or a martin (like an otter but with no tan markings, just silver where the tan would be), or a chinchilla or squirrel (blue chinchilla). The black looks black, although I do wonder about those distinct pink footpads.
It will be fun to see what they become - I hope you post updated photos as they grow!

 

[judymac]

Knowing the newborn color helps in determining final color, as the babies can change so much as they grow. "Pink" babies can be red-eyed-white or blue-eyed-white albinos, Himalayan (aka Californian or pointed white), ermine, pearl, or the lighter yellowish toned colors like cream, fawn, tortoiseshell. Dark pink babies are usually orange/red. "Gray" babies if darker gray are usually chestnut/castor agouti, black, black otter or marten, or chinchilla. Lighter gray babies can be opal agouti, squirrel chinchilla, blue, or blue otter or marten. Babies with more of a medium tan tint to them can be chocolate, chocolate agouti, chocolate otter or marten, or chocolate chinchilla. Kits with more of a lighter beige tan shade could be lilac, lilac otter or marten, lynx agouti, lilac chinchilla. So, step one is to see the newborn color.

To narrow the possibilities, by day 3, the actual hair comes in, and the gray babies will become jet black. Chocolates are a rich chocolate brown, the whites will look white and the fawn/orange/red shades will be apparent. The blues will still be gray, and the lilacs still beige. At this point, look at the inside of the ears. Rabbits with the agouti pattern gene (either full agouti or tan (otter/marten) will have white (or tan in some cases) inside the ears, and light bellies. Self colored rabbits like black, chocolate, blue and lilac, will be the same color all over, including the inner ears and bellies (which could be a tad lighter, but still a shade of the same color). So this step is to check the color again, and see if you have agouti patterning.

The next step will happen about day 10. True agouti patterning includes bands of different colors on the hairshaft, and by day 10 you should be able to see the beginnings of the banding.

• No agouti patterning (eye rings, light inner ears, triangle on neck behind ears, light belly) means you have a self colored rabbit (black, lilac, blue or chocolate)
• Agouti patterning such as eye rings, etc, but no banding on the hair--the hair is all one color (although the shade may lighten some towards the skin) means you have a tan pattern rabbit. Look at the triangle behind the ears, if it is orange (or some yellowish shade), you probably have an otter. If the triangle is silvery white, it's a chinchilla based tan, called a marten. Now add the coat color to the name: black marten, blue otter, etc.
• Agouti patterning such as eye rings, etc, plus banding in the hair would be an agouti pattern. Again, look at the triangle behind the ears, if it is orange, it's a regular agouti. Black agouti is called castor or chestnut, depending on breed. Chocolate agouti doesn't have a nickname (although some breeds call it 'amber'), blue agouti is opal and lilac agouti is lynx. If it is silvery white, it's a chinchilla. Black chinchilla is often just called chinchilla, blue chin is called 'squirrel', lilac & chocolate chins don't have a nickname.
• Those pink babies by day 10 are usually starting to open their eyes. Vivid blue eyes would be a Vienna blue-eyed white. Red/pink eyes would be either an albino red (or ruby)-eyed white, or, if it is developing dark color on the face, ears, legs and tail, would be a Himalayan (also called Californian or pointed white). Just add the face color now: such as chocolate Himalayan. Ermines also called frosties, frosted point, iron gray & sallander), will have dark eyes (brown, gray-blue or marbled), and might develop some dark ticking on the face and ears (or the entire body). If the baby is yellowish, but the face/ears/legs/tail are dark, then you have a tortoiseshell. Black tortoiseshells are often just called tortoiseshell, just add the face color for the others, such as lilac tort.
• The darker pink babies by now will probably have a brighter yellowish coat, usually orange or red. If they have agouti eye rings and light inner ears and belly, and no dark on the face, they are orange agouti. If they have no agouti markings and develop dark on the face, they are tortoiseshell, just add the face color to the name.

Now that's not every possibility. The sable line has reduced color, so the blacks end up looking sepia brown, and the color shades from darker on the back to lighter as you go lower. There are calico looking rabbits with the harlequin gene, and spotted rabbits with the 'broken' gene (as in the color is broken up with white).

Knowing the pedigree of the rabbit will give clues as to what color to look for, but without any other clues, following these these three steps of clues will usually narrow things down in just a short amount of time. Keep us posted on how the babies progress, it will be fun to see what they turn out to be!

 

[chaoskittiez]

I’ll definitely do updates. I’m so hoping that they will blossom into unique beauties and find homes that are safe and loving.

 

[Cal Gal]

I took in a bunny a week ago. She gave birth yesterday. She is a tiny little REW lop. I have 5 babies that I’m fretting over thinking about how I’m going to find them homes. I’m worried that 3 are rew and a black. Can someone help with bunny color? If this goes against a rule please let me know.

So cute!!! You say a REW lop? What’s that?! My friend breeds and raises holland lops but I have no idea what a REW lop is

 

[judymac]

REW

REW is short for red (or ruby) eyed white, the albino white

 

[Cal Gal]

REW is short for red (or ruby) eyed white, the albino white

Ok! Thanks! Are Californians REW then?

 

[Alaska Satin]

Ok! Thanks! Are Californians REW then?

No, ruby-eyed whites are completely colorless; the double recessive gene <cc> that makes them REW blocks all pigment in the skin, fur and eyes.

Californians are a color/pattern called himalayan or pointed white <c(h)>, the next step up the dominance ladder from REW; c(h) is recessive to everything except REW c. Himalayan is a heat-sensitive allele that blocks color in the eyes and the fur, except parts that are cool/cold. So their extremities (nose, ears, feet and tail) are normally the colored parts. However if the environment is really cold, they also get what's called "smut" on other parts that are less insulated, particularly their eyebrows, dewlap and sometimes around their hindquarters. You may have seen it in your Californians.

 

[Cal Gal]

No, ruby-eyed whites are completely colorless; the double recessive gene <cc> that makes them REW blocks all pigment in the skin, fur and eyes.

Californians are a color/pattern called himalayan or pointed white <c(h)>, the next step up the dominance ladder from REW; c(h) is recessive to everything except REW c. Himalayan is a heat-sensitive allele that blocks color in the eyes and the fur, except parts that are cool/cold. So their extremities (nose, ears, feet and tail) are normally the colored parts. However if the environment is really cold, they also get what's called "smut" on other parts that are less insulated, particularly their eyebrows, dewlap and sometimes around their hindquarters. You may have seen it in your Californians.

Yes, I am trying Californians for the first time this year, and mine have already gotten smut on their faces! Is it out of stress or cold weather?

 

[Cal Gal]

@Alaska Satin do you raise meat rabbits?

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Yes, I am trying Californians for the first time this year, and mine have already gotten smut on their faces! Is it out of stress or cold weather?

From my knowledge smut doesn't come from stress (not sure that'd even be possible)

 

[Cal Gal]

From my knowledge smut doesn't come from stress (not sure that'd even be possible)

Ok. Hmmm, the people I bought mine from said that they can get stress smut

 

[judymac]

I do see where there is some color near the eye of one rabbit, and an odd dark 'caret' over the nose on the other. There seems to be a genetic component in the shape and quality of markings. Some have said that rabbits that also carry the recessive gene for albino white do not have as good of markings as those rabbits with two Californian genes. Have the rabbits been exposed to very cold or very warm weather recently, or is this the normal face pattern since you've had them?

 

[Cal Gal]

I do see where there is some color near the eye of one rabbit, and an odd dark 'caret' over the nose on the other. There seems to be a genetic component in the shape and quality of markings. Some have said that rabbits that also carry the recessive gene for albino white do not have as good of markings as those rabbits with two Californian genes. Have the rabbits been exposed to very cold or very warm weather recently, or is this the normal face pattern since you've had them?

They are outside rabbits and it has been very cold. The one with the eyebrows I bought him like that but the doe did not come like that

 

[Alaska Satin]

@Alaska Satin do you raise meat rabbits?

Yes, we raise Satins and Champagne D'Argents for meat and show, and I have Californians and New Zealands in my barn from time to time, mostly because I like to do color breeding experiments.

I added a Cal doe into my Satin breeding stock years ago to improve the Satins' body type and growth rates, and since then I've had Californian-patterned Satins (now called himalayan Satins) in my herd. In AK we don't have a ton of breeding stock available, so many of us use crossbreeding to get improvements in type or new colors into our herds; it just takes a few generations to get back to what's considered "purebred."

Ok. Hmmm, the people I bought mine from said that they can get stress smut

Well, I suppose it depends on how you define stress. My adult Cals and himis get smut from severe cold, and also as a result of injuries. Kind of like a black rabbit which gets a cut sometimes grows white hair over the scar, Cals can grow black hair where an injury was (maybe it's just that an injury is exposed and thus not well-insulated?).

Cal kits can also develop color all over or on part of their body if the nest box gets chilled, or if it's particularly humid. It's often called "frosted." Here's a kit that got chilled, or maybe it was humid, I can't remember at the moment; but she grew up to be a perfectly normal himi Satin:

I do see where there is some color near the eye of one rabbit, and an odd dark 'caret' over the nose on the other. There seems to be a genetic component in the shape and quality of markings. Some have said that rabbits that also carry the recessive gene for albino white do not have as good of markings as those rabbits with two Californian genes. Have the rabbits been exposed to very cold or very warm weather recently, or is this the normal face pattern since you've had them?

I've found that Cals very often have those eyebrow markings and little spots hovering around the nose and ear markings. Since they're not disqualifications (DQs), and since color and markings only account for 5 out of 100 points on the show table, most breeders don't work very hard to eliminate them.

So far I haven't found that a hidden REW c impacts the himi markings very much. Here's Calypso, a c(h)c Satin. She was martenized - had a dominant tan allele a(t) at a different place on the genome than the ones for himi/REW - so her feet, ears and nose have silver agouti patterns, but otherwise she was beautifully marked with great color:

You can see that she also had "eyebrows" and some smut on her hindquarters above her back legs, similar to what you can see on your buck. But she did end up with a little less smut overall, and cleaner markings than my purebred Californians, which are homozygous for himi c(h)c(h).

Here's Callie, a purebred Californian, with heavy smut on dewlap, eyebrows and around her nose marking:


And here's another purebred Cal, Crabapple, in a shot where you can't see the extensive smut on her hindquarters, but you can see how irregular her face markings are, including her "beauty mark" similar to the stray marks on your doe's face. Her dewlap (and its smut) is truly impressive. But as you can see, she's waiting to have babies, so I don't want to disturb her right now to get a photo of that and her hindquarters:


However, even though I haven't so far seen clear evidence that being c(h)c impacts cal markings very much, I am trying to breed c(h)c Satins, to see if I can have a little less trouble with smut. Since it is relatively cold here most of the year, almost all our good Cals and himi Satins end up with smut on usable parts of the pelt, which is a disqualification for show; while smut on dewlaps or around eyes is not a DQ, that hindquarter smut takes them out of competition. One of my Cals, Toothless, got Best in Show and Reserve Best in Show as a junior, then couldn't ever compete again because she "smutted up." So, I am hoping that the "dilution" of the himi allele by the REW allele will lighten up the marking tendency a little. It's worth a try, anyway. You wouldn't want to do it in Arizona, but it might work up here in Alaska!

 

[kusanar314]

Ok. Hmmm, the people I bought mine from said that they can get stress smut

I have seen pics of a rabbit that had a cross on it's face from pressing it's face into the cold cage wire in the same spot all the time so it formed a smutty line. I might call that stress smut since I wouldn't expect a non stressed animal to spend significant percentages of their time with their face crammed into the side of the cage...

 

[Maplegrove Rabbitry]

So cute!!! You say a REW lop? What’s that?! My friend breeds and raises holland lops but I have no idea what a REW lop is

Rew stands for red eyed white, rew rabbits are essentially albino and is hard to tell what they can throw genetically because the white masks the underlying genetics.

 

[Cal Gal]

Yes, we raise Satins and Champagne D'Argents for meat and show, and I have Californians and New Zealands in my barn from time to time, mostly because I like to do color breeding experiments.

I added a Cal doe into my Satin breeding stock years ago to improve the Satins' body type and growth rates, and since then I've had Californian-patterned Satins (now called himalayan Satins) in my herd. In AK we don't have a ton of breeding stock available, so many of us use crossbreeding to get improvements in type or new colors into our herds; it just takes a few generations to get back to what's considered "purebred."


Well, I suppose it depends on how you define stress. My adult Cals and himis get smut from severe cold, and also as a result of injuries. Kind of like a black rabbit which gets a cut sometimes grows white hair over the scar, Cals can grow black hair where an injury was (maybe it's just that an injury is exposed and thus not well-insulated?).

Cal kits can also develop color all over or on part of their body if the nest box gets chilled, or if it's particularly humid. It's often called "frosted." Here's a kit that got chilled, or maybe it was humid, I can't remember at the moment; but she grew up to be a perfectly normal himi Satin:
View attachment 40020


I've found that Cals very often have those eyebrow markings and little spots hovering around the nose and ear markings. Since they're not disqualifications (DQs), and since color and markings only account for 5 out of 100 points on the show table, most breeders don't work very hard to eliminate them.

So far I haven't found that a hidden REW c impacts the himi markings very much. Here's Calypso, a c(h)c Satin. She was martenized - had a dominant tan allele a(t) at a different place on the genome than the ones for himi/REW - so her feet, ears and nose have silver agouti patterns, but otherwise she was beautifully marked with great color:
View attachment 40022View attachment 40021
You can see that she also had "eyebrows" and some smut on her hindquarters above her back legs, similar to what you can see on your buck. But she did end up with a little less smut overall, and cleaner markings than my purebred Californians, which are homozygous for himi c(h)c(h).

Here's Callie, a purebred Californian, with heavy smut on dewlap, eyebrows and around her nose marking:
View attachment 40024

And here's another purebred Cal, Wish, in a shot where you can't see the extensive smut on her hindquarters, but you can see how irregular her face markings are, including her "beauty mark" similar to the stray marks on your doe's face. Her dewlap (and its smut) is truly impressive. But as you can see, she's waiting to have babies, so I don't want to disturb her right now to get a photo of that and her hindquarters:
View attachment 40025View attachment 40026

However, even though I haven't so far seen clear evidence that being c(h)c impacts cal markings very much, I am trying to breed c(h)c Satins, to see if I can have a little less trouble with smut. Since it is relatively cold here most of the year, almost all our good Cals and himi Satins end up with smut on usable arts of the pelt, which is a disqualification for show; while smut on dewlaps or around eyes is not a DQ, that hindquarter smut takes them out of competition. One of my Cals, Toothless, got Best in Show and Reserve Best in Show as a junior, then couldn't ever compete again because she "smutted up." So, I am hoping that the "dilution" of the himi allele by the REW allele will lighten up the marking tendency a little. You wouldn't want to do it in Arizona, but it might work up here in Alaska!

Ok, thank you so much for that info! It really clears things up! It just seems so weird with my doe’s smut! (It seems to be spreading a bit everyday Is that bad?)