Are rabbit diseases more prevalent with floor-raised vs. wire cage-raised?

[MnCanary]

I've asked this question before, without much response. It may be that there isn't any data on this topic.

I've never understood this contradiction:

Many people cite disease control as one reason to raise rabbits on wire. And yet, lots of rabbits are raised in a colony or on a floor with deep litter. Are they more disease-prone? Mine seem OK on a cement floor with deep litter.

Part of the advantage of a pen or colony is that the rabbits get exercise. Could exercise overcome the 'disadvantage' of being raised on deep litter?

Another way to ask this question is: do colony-raised rabbits have more disease issues than wire floor, 1-per-cage raised rabbits?

Or, maybe, the rabbits that do well on either system are the ones that are tough enough to stay alive on either system.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I guess the only "diseases" I've dealt with is rabbits having a runny eye, which didn't change in floor cage or wire bottom, and ear mites, which again, happens in both.
Just as an extra, people always say that wire bottoms will give your rabbit sores on their feet, but I've had rabbits get them in floor cages before

 

[NY Rabbits]

I understood that coccidia was only an issue with rabbits raised on the ground. I don't know if this applies to deep litter on cement.

 

[Therese]

We've tried both: colony and cages. Now, we have a hybrid method.

We tried the colony method for a couple of years. We really wanted it to work! Here is what we experienced:

The younger rabbits are prone to coccidiosis and do better in cages (in our experience). We lost a lot of them to coccidiosis in a couple of years. In the wild, the variety of bacteria and the openness of the territory deal with coccidiosis well.

The mature does tend to fight on the floor as do the bucks. (We've had damaged ears and bites on the back.) Being territorial goes with maturity. Before they were mature, it was so sweet to see them together!

So, we now leave our buck on the floor under the cages of does/kits. He gets to stay in shape and visit all of the subjects in his kingdom. ;-) When it is time to breed, we put the doe on the floor with him. They get a nice time to stretch their legs and have a romantic game of tag/hide-and-go-seek. The does seem happy to go back to their own cage later on and are much more calm in their own cage than on the floor with a box to call their own. (The bucks can cause real havoc with new mammas and their litters. We have found a few litters scattered across the colony because the doe was being chased by the buck while she was birthing--they are ready to breed again immediately. The older does know how to deal with those inconsiderate bucks and don't seem to have a problem.)

We also leave our new mamma does on the floor with our buck to keep him company and have them bred whenever they are ready. We can tell they have been bred when they end up cuddling and grooming him and are stretched out side-by-side. Very sweet!

In a colony, one buck is King. He snuggles with and grooms all of the does and babies. If the does are bred, they bow down to him as he passes. (It makes it easy to tell which ones are bred.) If there are any bucks 8+ weeks old, the King Buck becomes a shark and leaves teeth marks on them (nature in action). (I think he would kill them if they couldn't get away--no competition allowed in his kingdom.)

Seeing them kick up their heels out of pure joy in the colony was really gratifying! We still let the 8 weekers out once in a while to get a good romp before freezer camp.

We started with a colony because we wanted to see our rabbits happy. We ended with a hybrid method...because we want to see our rabbits happy (healthy and safe)!

Hope this helps others who are trying to "think it through". God bless you!

 

[MsTemeraire]

In countries where wire floors aren't used (or are illegal!) then coccidiosis can be an issue but with keeping hutches clean, and preventative treatment for cocci twice a year, it isn't a massive problem.

 

[Preitler]

In countries where wire floors aren't used (or are illegal!) then coccidiosis can be an issue but with keeping hutches clean, and preventative treatment for cocci twice a year, it isn't a massive problem.

No wire cages or wire floors over here. Also, no cocci. Other breeders I know never heard of that. If you raise rabbits in a rather sterile environment for some generations, like off the ground in cages, on processed food like pellets or hay I would expect the rabbits to become more susceptible pretty quick.
Here traditional hutches are small, rather dirty deep litter, what could not deal with that got weeded out long, long ago. My hutches have wood slat floors, but the rabbits are out grazing and digging half of the day. No cocci in 10 years of breeding. I think breeding and culling for health - on purpose or by circumstances - is a thing.

One thing about cocci though: I'm pretty sure it's also very climate related. So what workes for me might not work in a humid, hot environment.

 

[Therese]

No wire cages or wire floors over here. Also, no cocci. Other breeders I know never heard of that. If you raise rabbits in a rather sterile environment for some generations, like off the ground in cages, on processed food like pellets or hay I would expect the rabbits to become more susceptible pretty quick.
Here traditional hutches are small, rather dirty deep litter, what could not deal with that got weeded out long, long ago. My hutches have wood slat floors, but the rabbits are out grazing and digging half of the day. No cocci in 10 years of breeding. I think breeding and culling for health - on purpose or by circumstances - is a thing.

One thing about cocci though: I'm pretty sure it's also very climate related. So what workes for me might not work in a humid, hot environment.

I live in New England and I am convinced it is one of the most challenging climates because of the constantly changing extremes. Hot (90'sF) and dry....or hot and HUMID; frigid (-10F), dry...or frigid and WET. Snow, ice, wind.... In the coldest month of the year (January) it is common to have a "thaw" for a week and the temperature has gotten even into the 90'sF before it plunges back down to below freezing again. During the hottest month it can plunge at night down to the 40'sF. It is quite a challenge keeping the rabbits safe and healthy! If it were any one of those sets of conditions on a regular basis, it would most certainly be easier!

So saying, that may have contributed to our casualties due to Coccidiosis when we had a colony.

I like what you said about culling for health. We have been trying to do that, and we do see results...but not perfectly! I used Ivermectin this spring and we still had a few cases.

I don't know if it is worldwide, but Coccidi reside on plants here in the United States. So, every time we feed our rabbits fresh greens, they have to contend with them. Culling seems to be a good combination with a non-sterile environment. And, a sterile environment seems kind of like a time bomb. Germs will get in eventually! If our animals' immune systems can't deal with them, there will be serious problems. [I am sure we could gain some wisdom from rabbits to apply to human beings]

About culling for good health, strength and good characteristics-- (this is a true account)
Apparently there is a goat farmer who has developed a breed of goats that will not jump the fence. Every time one jumped the fence over the past 10-20 years, he simply culled it. Of course, his goats are in high demand!

Also, a Turkey farmer lost all of his several hundred birds except one to some common Turkey illness one season. That one survivor was immune to the sickness. His offspring would most likely have been immune. Unfortunately, the farmer didn't think of that until after it went to freezer camp!

By the way, could someone instruct me on the proper usage and capitalization of Coddiosis, cocci, etc. ? I would much appreciate it!

God bless you! Thank you ALL for the great information!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Apparently there is a goat farmer who has developed a breed of goats that will not jump the fence. Every time one jumped the fence over the past 10-20 years, he simply culled it. Of course, his goats are in high demand!

All I have to say is

 

[Therese]

All I have to say is

I am not sure what the emoticon means.... Could you please tell me? Thank you!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I am not sure what the emoticon means.... Could you please tell me? Thank you!

By it I meant that that doesn't sound like a very smart thing to do

 

[kusanar314]

By it I meant that that doesn't sound like a very smart thing to do

Why would you say that? It seems to have worked, and made a market for his stock. He also likely ate the ones that jumped the fence so he wasn't out anything.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Why would you say that? It seems to have worked, and made a market for his stock. He also likely ate the ones that jumped the fence so he wasn't out anything.

Jumping a fence isn't a genetic thing. That's like me putting down rabbits because they wandered out of my living room

 

[kusanar314]

Jumping a fence isn't a genetic thing. That's like me putting down rabbits because they wandered out of my living room

But it is, the behavior and personality that causes the fence jumping is genetic.

This is more along the lines of putting down rabbits that bite handlers. If you do it enough, you get a bloodline of rabbits that do not bite when handled.

Dogs are the same way, breed the ones with personalities you like and you end up with more like them, breed ones with personalities you don't and you will get more like them too.

If you were to cull every goat that crossed an imaginary line in the field with no fence, that would be stupid, but because there IS a fence that they have to put some (not much mind you but some) effort into getting out of it, the ones that are unlikely to try to get over or through the fence are likely to pass down that lazy gene to their young.

 

[MsTemeraire]

By the way, could someone instruct me on the proper usage and capitalization of Coddiosis, cocci, etc. ? I would much appreciate it!

Coccidiosis. The agent causing it is a single-celled organism called an oocyst, which could also be called a coccidia. It gets called Cocci, coxy etc for short.

The genus of organisms that cause cocci are the Eimeria species and there are plenty of them. Most are species specific. There are a number which cause coccidiosis in rabbits, mostly the intestinal form, which causes weight loss and diarrhoea and death in (usually) young rabbits. This is the most commonly seen form. Most rabbits have a few coccidia as part of the normal gut flora, but conditions can arise where they multiply out of control and cause disease.

Eimeria steidae is the one which causes liver (hepatic) cocci, characterised by white spots on the liver when expamined after death. This is a rarer form, and does not usually affect adults but they can be carriers and pass it on to the babies. Symptoms are loss of weight in babies (it doesn't usually affect adults) and a pot belly, and often death. While some proprietary coccidiosis treatments such as amprolium are effective for the intestinal form, hepatic cocci is best treated with Diclazuril or Toltrazuril.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-veterinary-medicine/eimeria-stiedae
I usually treat twice yearly for cocci, usually using Diclazuril (or feeding a pellet containing diclazuril for a month) for one treatment, and an amprolium based liquid for the second - once in the spring before breeding, and again in the autumn before winter.

 

[Therese]

Coccidiosis. The agent causing it is a single-celled organism called an oocyst, which could also be called a coccidia. It gets called Cocci, coxy etc for short.

The genus of organisms that cause cocci are the Eimeria species and there are plenty of them. Most are species specific. There are a number which cause coccidiosis in rabbits, mostly the intestinal form, which causes weight loss and diarrhoea and death in (usually) young rabbits. This is the most commonly seen form. Most rabbits have a few coccidia as part of the normal gut flora, but conditions can arise where they multiply out of control and cause disease.

Eimeria steidae is the one which causes liver (hepatic) cocci, characterised by white spots on the liver when expamined after death. This is a rarer form, and does not usually affect adults but they can be carriers and pass it on to the babies. Symptoms are loss of weight in babies (it doesn't usually affect adults) and a pot belly, and often death. While some proprietary coccidiosis treatments such as amprolium are effective for the intestinal form, hepatic cocci is best treated with Diclazuril or Toltrazuril.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/veterinary-science-and-veterinary-medicine/eimeria-stiedae
I usually treat twice yearly for cocci, usually using Diclazuril (or feeding a pellet containing diclazuril for a month) for one treatment, and an amprolium based liquid for the second - once in the spring before breeding, and again in the autumn before winter.

Thank you very much! More than I asked for! God bless you!

 

[Therese]

But it is, the behavior and personality that causes the fence jumping is genetic.

This is more along the lines of putting down rabbits that bite handlers. If you do it enough, you get a bloodline of rabbits that do not bite when handled.

Dogs are the same way, breed the ones with personalities you like and you end up with more like them, breed ones with personalities you don't and you will get more like them too.

If you were to cull every goat that crossed an imaginary line in the field with no fence, that would be stupid, but because there IS a fence that they have to put some (not much mind you but some) effort into getting out of it, the ones that are unlikely to try to get over or through the fence are likely to pass down that lazy gene to their young.

Thank you for the clear explanation! We have livestock guardian dogs, a rat terrier, a shepherd mix and a border collie. It is amazing how different they are! It is obvious that the dog that is perfect for a certain job would be an utter failure at another job. Those very special characteristics must have been bred into them by very conscientious and patient breeders over the decades/centuries.

Makes me appreciate things a bit more when I think about it. God bless you!