Advice for a surprise(ish) litter.

[Inkblotbunny]

Hello! I've just signed up after google kept leading my questioning searches to boards posted here, so you guys are clearly savvy.

My Peanut (Miniature Lop doe) had a litter yesterday, luckily I managed to get a nesting box in there which she sneakily and very hastily had 6 little babbits in (not in the safe part though, out in the uncovered entrance part so I gently moved them into the safer cubby so she wouldn't stomp on them, clumsy girl)

Being the paranoid creature I am I was hoping for a bit of advice, as I've only ever had experiences with this as a youngster in a farm environment and not being responsible for a full litter of indoor babs as an adult.

So far Peanut is pretty much back to her old self, only extra affectionate (and a bit lazier, but I guess I would be! She will come out for a play, then lay down for a good while more than she used to) but with a bit of blood spotting still. Is this alright? It's just the odd pea sized amount here and there, like the floor or the edge of the nest box, and only two or three odd drops so far that I can find. I checked out her hindquarters as she'll let me lift her tail and examine her while she's laying down, and it's clearly coming from her babycanon. I gave her a gentle tummy rub to see if there were any more babbits left in there but couldn't find anything suspicious. So gave her a gentle massage just in case (she loved this).

Also, while she had 6 wriggly, active babbits (indoors and with ample fluff to snuggle in, I popped a hand in morning and evening just to check they were toasty) a couple seem to have shot ahead of the rest in regards to full tummies . I gave my doe a little rub and a gentle squeeze to see if she was producing milk but didn't manage to bring anything forth. They are looking a little hungrier this evening's check and two of them (including the tiny black bean baby I'm extra worried for) have a clear waist and slim, wrinkly little tums. They also squeak every now and then so I know they're hungry like the wolf.

As a little experiment as I was not able to milk her myself, when she was nice and relaxed (She is luckily a very chill doe and treats me like a second mother to her babs, licking me while I check them) I hypnotized her with head massages and held the little black bean near her nipple. It gratefully suckled for a second but then released and fidgeted, as though nothing were happening. So I tried another nipple. Same again, some sucking and some wet noises, some little paw kneading and some swallowing motions but very brief and then signs of wanting to find a nip that actually worked. I have no guarantee that it wasn't getting any milk from this, but as I couldn't draw any myself and it seemed frustrated and looked for other nipples I can only worry that she's not producing (yet?) properly.

She has willingly climbed on them and attempted a feed, at which they squeaked for joy (or desperation : < ) but seems to have little patience for it (though I know they feed briefly and only a couple of times a day this was very quick, especially for 6).

So my questions here really are~
Is my doe okay, having some light spotting given that she kindled yesterday? She is active (when not being snuggly) and eating and drinking well. I have also given her a couple of tums for calcium and plenty of hay, pellets and kale/spinach and fresh water constantly etc.

What to do in regards to her babbits?
I'm aware that vets can only effectively administer oxytocin 48 hours and under from the kindling, but is this the problem? A couple of the kits seem fine (but only based on my judgement with help from comparison pictures online) but there are definitely a couple of very empty looking ones, which is very sad.
Are they just struggling to get milk time due to the larger ones shoving them out of the way and my doe's apparent impatience with sitting still more than a minute or so?
It's still only day two, but tomorrow at 1pm (she was a day kindler and also mostly a day feeder, odd) will be 48 hours. Do I leave them be with mama for a little while and hope that her milk is just coming in slowly/the kits will even out?
Or should I take her in for a shot and risk upsetting her/the babbits/their routine?
A couple of them have been pooping (tiniest little poops I have EVER seen oh my goodness!) so that also leads me to believe they've been feeding, at least some of them, anyway.

I'm mostly leaning toward leaving them be, playing it by ear and making sure at least some of them are getting fed to confirm she IS producing, and PERHAPS having to supplement the smaller babs with a bit of the old goats milk concoctions, while still leaving them in the nest to keep warm and hope they may get strong enough to get a feed from her.

I've been letting her out for a play so she doesn't get fussy and run about in her hut and squash them by mistake, she likes a run. She's having a play and flopping on my leg now and then for a cuddle break so I'd like to think at the very least that she's okay. I know they're good at hiding things though.

We'd very much appreciate any opinions on what you would do in this situation, as I'm a nervous nelly and she's a 1 year old madam on her first litter~

Thank you! <3

 

[Dood]

Slight spotting can be normal within the first 72 hours of kindling

Rabbits only feed kits once or twice a day and the babies should not be disturbed, and hence waste energy, inbetween feedings.

You can create a second nest and pull the 3 out of the 6 with the fullest bellies and have them skip a meal but it might be too late for the runts if they are really skinny and crying :shrug:

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Hi Inkblotbunny!!!

:welcomewagon:

You might want to supplement her with a little parsley for a couple of days- parsley is a mild emanagogue and will cause uterine contractions, which in turn will stimulate milk production. Do not give it over the long term, however, because it is also used to dry up milk.

Another fabulous herb to increase milk is Borage. Do not give too much, as I actually had a doe on the verge of mastitis because it is so effective.

You might want to take the largest kits out of the nest box prior to her next feeding- often times if the runty ones get a feeding without competition they will catch up to the others.

She has willingly climbed on them and attempted a feed, at which they squeaked for joy (or desperation : < )

If they are squeaking they are desperate.

The blood spotting is perfectly normal, and nothing to worry about. I would NOT take her in for oxytocin. She delivered her kits just fine, and if she is active and eating (which you say she is), there is nothing amiss.

 

[Inkblotbunny]

Thank you very much for your advice, both of you.

I have been leaving them be for the most part, I tried a hand feed on just the smallest of the litter (used a dropper rather than a syringe for better flow control), but very little interest. I got some into him by tiny drops, which he would eat (cutie) but I don't feel they would safely ingest enough of it without me causing way more hassle in the nest than it's worth.

I think they are getting a little warm as they are indoors (we are NOT using central heating at all at the moment) and keep migrating away from each other one by one until they are in a pile at the very lip of the nest box, on fur but not covered by much of it (Peanut has been VERY generous with her fur pulling, what a nice girl).
They are all still alive though. Somehow. And I think I may have worked out the problem.

While most litters have one or two runts, this litter seems to be the opposite and just has one HUGE BABY that already has fur. The others are slightly sheen-y now implying a bit of fur growth but not like this bab.
This means she is at least feeding them, and placing a small hay cross over the fluffpile helped me make sure she was bothering them and try to work out her feeding times/schedule by how long it stayed there undisturbed each time. Is the fact they are active enough to move and temp regulate a good sign? Initially I was worried they migrated away from a dead kit but they were all still truckin' somehow. <3

Leaving them be and feeding her Parsley yesterday, and some dandelion and blackberry leaves today seems to have helped, as even the smaller babies looked to be at least somewhat fed (other than the black tiny one, he is either somehow the most naturally wrinkly baby ever or is somehow still alive while running on empty).

I think though that she just has limited working nipples, so the big, furry beastbaby is probably testing them all while knocking the smaller ones off until it gets a working one and the others are left with duds. : <
It's just the one fatty though, so I can't really remove him as he'll have nobody to snuggle with.
I also don't want to split them into two nests as I don't think my girl will check in on both of them somehow. She will probably just feed the nest with the big, strong baby.

Mixed progress right now then. I know she's lactating at least a bit as they are still alive and at 4 days old now surely they would not still be here had they not been fed at all.
One of them is MASSIVE so perhaps she has dud nipples/is deficient in something (now giving her dandelion, blackberry and tums in small doses along with her massive supply of pellets, hay and dark leafy greens) and is just bullying all 5 of the others away from the nips.

I'm hoping that by leaving her be for the most part, making sure she hasn't trampled them (they won't stay far back enough in the nest) and feeding her dandelion and blackberry will help her enough to produce what the kits need, but I'm still worried for the smaller ones as they're clearly being pushed away.

I can see it now, one huge fatty draining a nipple then moving on to the next, knocking off small babs as it goes. What an adorable jerk.

But they got to 4 days so far somehow so I have to have more faith in my doe. From what I can see it's a miracle if you don't lose a kit in a litter of 6 before this point anyway so for them to be kickin' still despite being little surely means I can sit back and wait.

Peanut is very active, very happy and not bleeding anymore.
She also ran around me in circles buzzing happily yesterday when I let her out for a little while to check for dead kits. Stop courting me when you already have a litter Peanut. : P

Sorry for my only two posts so far being such text walls! I'll reign it in when the litter stabilizes, I promise!
Thank you again. <3

*Edit* They are also no longer squeaking when I check them. Hopefully this is because they're ok and not because they're too dehydrated to make any noise or something.